Need players' opinion on rates

D

dirtydog48

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are opening a new room in Flint, Mich. People ask if we are having liquor, no it is a pool room. They ask if we will have food, no, it is a pool room and there is great deli/pizzeria next door. The tone is going to be like the scene in the Hustler when the house man says, "This is Ames, mister. We play pool."
We will have 8 or 9 tables (a 6 by 12, 5 4 1/2 by 9 and 3 bar boxes), some video games, juke box, and a piano (some local players can play some pretty good jazz).
The overhead is very low and I am thinking of charging $3/hr or 5 consecutive hours anytime for $10. I am thinking of charging a nominal membership fee ($50-$75/year) to get these rates. The reason is that the occasional players should (???) pay more in the busy times. The local rates have been $7 for one player, $10 for 2 and $12 for 3 players.
The question is, when you were playing casually or learning to play, would the higher rates discourage you from coming back? Would you buy a membership for wife or significant other?
Looking for creative or positive suggestions.
 
dirtydog48 said:
Looking for creative or positive suggestions.
Click to expand...

The rates should be proportionate to town`s economy.It is a auto workers city.Even Dejavue in Flint is inexpensive and cheapest in the whole country
I suggest:
pool- 3$ an hour
Budweiser : 1.25 $ for 12 oz
No coors since it is anti union corporation.
 
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If this is going to be a "all ages" joint, I would leave the bar boxes coin operated. There are a lot of kids out there with only a few dollars in their pockets and cant/wont pay hour rates. Yet they will dump their last $1.50 in the table for 10 mins of play time. Its a win/win situation. You get their money, they get your service.


I mention this because I am seeing it happen here now. There used to be 12 tables that were coin-op, and the place had a steady crowd (mostly kids).
Once they were switched to hourly the business declined so much you wouldn't believe. Its actually cheaper at the hourly rate ($5 a hour per table!), yet it is driving away those costumers that cant afford it. Sure its mostly kids, but money is money, and we all know how slow summer time is for pool halls.
The owner will let you play for 15, 30 mins, whatever, if you don't have enough for the hourly rate. However pride comes into play, and a lot of people wont just come out and say "Hey, we've $3, how long can we play?".

You cant lose in this situation. You get the money from the kids, and can open the table and charge a hourly for those wishing to pay the rate fees.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from, and at the very least, its something to consider.
Whatever you do, your rates sound reasonable (we have all paid more to play I'm sure), and I wish you the best of luck.
 
9 tables at $3 per hour is $27 per hour IF every table is in use. Let's assume you are open 12 hours per day, 7 days a week. That's just over $2000 per week. The fact is, you won't have every table occupied every hour that you are open. But let's be optomistic and say you still do $1500 per week. How much is rent on the building? How much are utilities? How many employees will you have? How much will you pay them? How much do you plan to take for pay? You won't be able to be there every hour the place is open, so you need someone trustworthy to be there when you aren't there. Cloth to recover tables at least every 4-5 months...$1200....having a table mechanic recover the tables...another $1200. Business Operating License? Sales Tax? (yes, you have to give a part to the government). Building upkeep? HVAC upkeep? Insurance? I could go on.

The point is, there are very few pool rooms that can survive on just table time. Without the kitchen and bar, you are facing an uphill battle. I would plan VERY carefully before going into business under these conditions. I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. There are many of us who dream of opening a nice pool room, but it isn't as easy as it might appear. Also, remember it is a business. You are going to be working when you are there with very little time to play pool.

I wish you the best of luck, but please take a long hard objective look at what you are planning before you dive in.

Steve
 
That is a very realistic assessment by pooltchr. As nice as it would be to have a room that is focused on 'playing pool', it is difficult to do from the business perspective without income from food or liquor. Sore_Aintya has some good points too.

In central CT i've seen some great ideas fail when trying to have a successful business with income strictly from table time.

On the other hand, Boston Billiards business model was very successful by being more of a nightclub atmosphere. I haven't been to one in quite a while now but they were charging $10 hr for table time and people didn't seem to care because they spend less on table time than the high cost of food and liquor. Of course it IS NOT a good atmosphere for serious pool playing. There is another room that has a nice setup whereby the bar is on a higher level than the tables so people at the bar are away from the tables. They offer specials on weekday table time and free pool every weeknight for a couple of hours.

I would love to have a nice place to play with reasonable rates for table time focused on just playing pool....but unfortunately 'business is business'.

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.

Peter
 
thats kinda funny no beer, no food but a piano...to tell you the truth I'd be pissed off to be playing pool and have to listen to people banging on a piano.
some players drink beer, and food keeps people from leaving if they are hungry. As vagabond posted you have to charge what your demographic can afford. We charge $4.00 per hour for one person $8.00 for 2 or more after 3:00 p.m. before that it is half price.
Good luck, it isn't as easy as it looks...
phm
 
Ive been apart of 3 failed pool halls. One of which lasted a whooping 3 years, and that was only because of a lot of the overhead coming out of our pockets, and the after hours poker games we had almost nightly.

Business is business and its hard to survive in the pool world on table time alone, especially if you have competition (another pool hall in the area).

I would reconsider the no food option. Everyone has to eat (even pool players:eek: ), and even if its a George Foreman with frozen hamburgers, you are keeping people in the building, which is all that really matters.

I'm curious though, when you say "the overhead is very low", how low are we talking? Is this place going to be the backbone of your livelihood, or do you have a job-job and this is more of a "adventure" for you?
 
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thoughts

Gonna be a rough row to hoe as others have mentioned. I think that you should stay with the standard method of off hour/peak time rates that most use instead of giving people a cut rate if they tie up a table during your busiest times.

I also think that your hourly rates should be at or near the local market rates. Memberships for a cut rate may work well I don't know. It works well for rifle ranges and I have seen pool halls do it, just no inside information on how it works. You should offer family memberships for the wife, girlfriend, and children of legal age to come in your place. If you can get adult sons and daughters or brothers and sisters of a member to sign up I would offer a discount. The more groups you can get coming together there the better it will be.

Free tournaments with modest payouts get a lot of regulars involved and mixes them together so that they all come to know each other. Again this fosters the meeting place concept.

Overhead for a legitimately ran business is a bear! Been there and at one point it took fifteen thousand a month to keep my doors open. There are places to get help putting together a business model for free. SCORE(Service Core of Retired Executives) can be a big help if they are in your area. Only you can decide what you want to do and it sounds like you are already committed but a hard look at all of the expenses including hidden costs like table upkeep, supplies, and upkeep on the place can give you a much better idea of where your break even point is.

Food may be the difference between this being a paying proposition or not. "No outside food brought in" is a common sign and too if people have food at the counter they often won't leave to go get it even if there is a great place next door. If food is an option you may have to consider it.

Good luck with your venture. We all want more good pool halls.

Hu

dirtydog48 said:
We are opening a new room in Flint, Mich. People ask if we are having liquor, no it is a pool room. They ask if we will have food, no, it is a pool room and there is great deli/pizzeria next door. The tone is going to be like the scene in the Hustler when the house man says, "This is Ames, mister. We play pool."
We will have 8 or 9 tables (a 6 by 12, 5 4 1/2 by 9 and 3 bar boxes), some video games, juke box, and a piano (some local players can play some pretty good jazz).
The overhead is very low and I am thinking of charging $3/hr or 5 consecutive hours anytime for $10. I am thinking of charging a nominal membership fee ($50-$75/year) to get these rates. The reason is that the occasional players should (???) pay more in the busy times. The local rates have been $7 for one player, $10 for 2 and $12 for 3 players.
The question is, when you were playing casually or learning to play, would the higher rates discourage you from coming back? Would you buy a membership for wife or significant other?
Looking for creative or positive suggestions.
Click to expand...
 
I live in Grand Blanc/Flint

and the thing is that there is no competition in this area. There is not a single nine footer anywhere closer than 35 miles away (aproximately). This seems unbelievable to me, but it's true. I can't wait until this place opens up.
 
You say that peter E but look at amsterdam billiards in NYC they seem to be doing pretty well focusing 50% of their attention on a great pool playing environment and 50% of their attention food and drink IF people want it. so its not impossible.
 
Hey, I can help!

If you need business cards, flyers, etc (designed & printed.. I do both) then contact me. I also do web design.
PM me, or AIM " siqazfuq ".
 
Are you talking $3/hr for the table as a whole, or $3/hr per person on a table? It makes a huge difference.

You might consider having differing peak/off-peak rates. Also the possibility of doing the membership thing as you mentioned, and part of that is getting off-peak rates during peak times.

Never underestimate the amount of income you can get from food/beverage. You might reconsider that plan.
 
ScottW said:
You might consider having differing peak/off-peak rates.
Click to expand...
During slow periods, such as before 4PM on weekdays, you might try offering reduced rates of $1.50/hr per person. A lot of people might come in earlier just to practice.
 
It's better if you sell alcohol because you can build up a serious pool player clientele during the day by offering free or low cost pool and bring the drunken yups in at night to pay the bills and make profit. In DallAss, Clicks offered free pool during the day with a purchase of a drink. Ah, those were the daze.....
 
Table Time Rates.

Table Rates At Country Club USA
Mon-Tue-Wed-Thur
2006
One player Rate $6.00 per hour
Two player rate $8.00 per hour
Three,four & five player rate $10.00

Fri-Sat-Sun
2006
One player rate $6.00 per hour
Two player rate $9.00 per hour
Three & four player rate $12.00 per hour
Five player Rate $15.00 per hour
Sat & Sun Special From 10am till 6pm for $10.00 per person.


We have 46 9ft Brunswick Gold Crown Tables.
26 tables have Simonis 860. Cloth
20 tables have Gorina IPT Tournament Cloth.

Tables are spread out in three rooms on two floors with over 30TV monitors full bleacher seating for over 200 spectators.
A Sports bar with live Bands and Massachusetts Lottery & (KENO)
Two Bars with Beer, Wine and Full Liquor.

Country Club USA Food Menu is by far the Best you will get in a Pool Room. From light Appetizers & Pizza to 1/2lb flame broiled Angus burgers, Salads & our Mouth watering Teriyaki Steak Tip dinner.
As always at our Big Events Country Clubs Famous Prime Rib Dinner.

Available for Private Functions from 20 to 200 guests.

http://www.countryclubusa.com
 
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spw62 said:
Table Rates At Country Club USA
Mon-Tue-Wed-Thur
2006
One player Rate $6.00 per hour
Two player rate $8.00 per hour
Three,four & five player rate $10.00

Fri-Sat-Sun
2006
One player rate $6.00 per hour
Two player rate $9.00 per hour
Three & four player rate $12.00 per hour
Five player Rate $15.00 per hour
Sat & Sun Special From 10am till 6pm for $10.00 per person.


We have 46 9ft Brunswick Gold Crown Tables.
26 tables have Simonis 860. Cloth
20 tables have Gorina IPT Tournament Cloth.

Tables are spread out in three rooms on two floors with over 30TV monitors full bleacher seating for over 200 spectators.
A Sports bar with live Bands and Massachusetts Lottery & (KENO)
Two Bars with Beer, Wine and Full Liquor.

Country Club USA Food Menu is by far the Best you will get in a Pool Room. From light Appetizers & Pizza to 1/2lb flame broiled Angus burgers, Salads & our Mouth watering Teriyaki Steak Tip dinner.
As always at our Big Events Country Clubs Famous Prime Rib Dinner.

Available for Private Functions from 20 to 200 guests.

http://www.countryclubusa.com
Click to expand...
I'm getting pretty damn tired of see you post this over and over again... We get the point. Knock it off.
 
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