Need some help/advice on my table and cue

[Pjaze]

I have a couple of questions I would love some advice on.

First of all I am buying a new shaft for my cue. I have a predator 5K with a Z2 shaft. The guy I am buying a new shaft from is asking for the collar diameter, do I need to measure this myself with callipers?

I work away and don't have access to my cue for another week or so, does anyone know the collar diameter of a predator 5K2?

http://www.predatorcues.com/predator_cues_5k.php

Secondly, I have played with my z2 shaft with a moori tip for about 4 years, and didn't realise I was mushrooming my ferrule. The ferrule on the z2 was already pretty short, and there wasn't much tip on my cue when I first had it. As I am in Perth I had to order a new tip online and then find someone who could put the new tip on for me.

I found a guy who repairs snooker cues and replaces snooker tips, and he agreed to give my cue go (Even though he had never even seen an american style cue before). He had no idea how to replace the ferrule so we agreed that he would just shave off the top bit of the ferrule. Now I only have about 10mm of ferrule, but a nice big Kumai Black Soft tip on the end. Does any one see any problem with this? Should I try and get the ferrule replaced? I have attached a picture.



Thirdly - I have a home table, and had to get it custom made because they don't really sell american tables in Perth, WA. The pockets have pretty wide openings, but they seem to taper in a bit to much, creating a funny angle. The amount of shots that I swear I hit beautifully, but then jaw out of the pocket seems incredible to me, I think the shelfs might be pretty deep aswell.. I have attached a picture, what do you guys think?

The table is in my shed, and in Perth where I live it gets over 40c atleast 10 times a year, make it pretty swelteringly hot. My poor table has been sitting in the shed having these fluctuations in temperature for nearly 5 years. The cusions are by no means dead, but sometimes the ball seems to come off at funny angles. I don't know if it is just me being paranoid or if it is actually time for a re cussion. Is there a way I can test this?


Would appreciate any input! thanks alot.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

As far as the table, the pockets look fine to me. It is normal to have the pockets taper smaller on the inside. Put two balls in the jaws of the pocket, and take a picture for us to see. It will give us all an idea how tight the pockets are. I suspect they are a bit tight, and like you noted the shelf is a bit deep too.

Extremes in temperature (and humidity) will affect how a table plays. Hit some standard 2 and 3 rail cushion shots to see how the table is tracking during these periods temp fluctuation.

Usually if the cushion rubber goes bad it gets very hard. Press on your cushions down the length of the rail with your fingers to get an idea of how elastic they feel. Remember too in most table builds the rubber cushions are glued to the subrail. Heat is bad for glue, check to see if any cushions feel loose. You also may want to inspect the rail bolts under the table to see if any have become loose during play. If a bolt or two became loose, the cushions will play different, and you may hear a different sound coming from the rail then from other parts.

About your cue, do you ever sand your shaft? I suspect that you do, which would explain why your ferrule is larger at the tip area, then at the base. Sandpaper of any grit, takes away wood.

Finally, how about some more pictures of the table?

 

[Black Cat 5791]

Honestly those pockets look way small. I'm not really sure he's even using 2 1/4 inch balls. The perspective suggest maybe 2 1/8 size miniature balls, put 2 balls in the jaws. Post additional pictures with the balls in the jaws of the pockets as Tony suggested.

Black Cat

 

[Pjaze]

A few more pics as requested. I know my cussions are still soft to touch, and there doesn't seem to be any movement in them so they are probably ok. I am keen to get home next week and have a good look though.

 

[Pjaze]

Like I said in my first post, I think the pockets are pretty big at the mouth opening. As you can see, two balls easily fit. It is the angle I was wondering about,

Many times a night when the object ball is close to the rail, and I hit what feels and looks like a very solid shot - the object ball just pops back out. I have even had a ball on the long rail, jaw out of the top right pocket, into the top left pocket, only too jaw out of the top left pocket and drop back into the top right pocket. <-- Not sure if I explained that well, but I have never seen that even nearly happen before on any other table!

 

[ROB.M]

Table

Table pockets are way to wide, also it looks like the rails could not be aligned with the slate properly. Or the slate could not be attached to the base frame properly..
The climate there will have a huge impact on the cloth and many other variables in how the table plays..
The best and first thing I can suggest to you is that your going to need air movement passing thru the shed.

How much to rent that shed?
A motor cycle,mattress and a pool table is all the accommodations needed' I will bring some fresh simonis cloth and some A/C... How far to the beach?
-
Rob.M

 

[Pjaze]

Haha, don't forget the golf clubs, surf board, drums and fridge!

Don't really have a chance for any air circulation, apart from a fan in the corner which is usually on. The table plays pretty slow but I thought that was just the age of the cloth. It is a dry heat also so it doesn't really get too humid which is what I thought would do most of the damage.

What do you mean by the rails not being aligned with the slate?

I recently inquired about getting the table reclothed, and the estimate was $1000, and another $500 for re-cussioning. So I don't think it is worth it just yet.

The beach is a 5 minute walk. - Bring the cloth and the A/C and the shed is all yours

 

[ROB.M]

Haha, don't forget the golf clubs, surf board, drums and fridge!

Don't really have a chance for any air circulation, apart from a fan in the corner which is usually on. The table plays pretty slow but I thought that was just the age of the cloth. It is a dry heat also so it doesn't really get too humid which is what I thought would do most of the damage.

What do you mean by the rails not being aligned with the slate?

I recently inquired about getting the table reclothed, and the estimate was $1000, and another $500 for re-cussioning. So I don't think it is worth it just yet.

The beach is a 5 minute walk. - Bring the cloth and the A/C and the shed is all yours

-
Take and use the pool balls are a measuring tool.
Use the same two balls as you pictured, use the stripe on the two balls to align them in the back of the pocket as far as the ball will go with out falling in. But make sure the balls are frozen to the pocket opening' then put two more balls kissing the first two and frozen to the rail.
If you could take a picture of your results.
-
Thanks
Rob.M

 

[Tony_in_MD]

There is more to how a pocket plays then just the opening dimensions. You should ask these questions in the ask the mechanic sub-form, those guys are the true experts.

Those pockets are not as tight as I originally thought, but that shelf sure looks deep.

I would not be prepared to put the kind of money you were quoted into totally redoing the table until I had the table in a controlled environment.

Like I said in my first post, I think the pockets are pretty big at the mouth opening. As you can see, two balls easily fit. It is the angle I was wondering about,

Many times a night when the object ball is close to the rail, and I hit what feels and looks like a very solid shot - the object ball just pops back out. I have even had a ball on the long rail, jaw out of the top right pocket, into the top left pocket, only too jaw out of the top left pocket and drop back into the top right pocket. <-- Not sure if I explained that well, but I have never seen that even nearly happen before on any other table!

 

[franko]

Try

Haha, don't forget the golf clubs, surf board, drums and fridge!

Don't really have a chance for any air circulation, apart from a fan in the corner which is usually on. The table plays pretty slow but I thought that was just the age of the cloth. It is a dry heat also so it doesn't really get too humid which is what I thought would do most of the damage.

What do you mean by the rails not being aligned with the slate?

I recently inquired about getting the table reclothed, and the estimate was $1000, and another $500 for re-cussioning. So I don't think it is worth it just yet.

The beach is a 5 minute walk. - Bring the cloth and the A/C and the shed is all yours

I would definitely try a overhead fan, to help keep the cloth dry this may help with the speed of the table.

 

[ArizonaPete]

Your ferrule is fine. The shorter ferrule should reduce cue ball deflection a bit. I wouldn't invest any more money in the table. Play the way it is and just enjoy. Have another pint and throw a couple of shimp on the barbie too.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

I stand corrected those pockets are huge. Assuming that the Balls are standard 2 1/4". I think that the issue with the ball pocketing is the degree of angle on the pocket facing being a tad bit too wide.

Black Cat

 

[Cdryden]

Not sure if someone already mentioned this or not but you would get more qualified responses on the table mechanic sub forum. I'm not knocking anyone that has posted here, just saying you might be looking in the wrong spot.

My unqualified opinion is the the angle is not steep enough on the rails causing a wider opening, narrowing too much to the back of the pocket which is probably why you are getting the death rattle. New rails may be in order. But again, I am no table mechanic.

 

[rjtolly]

I stand corrected those pockets are huge. Assuming that the Balls are standard 2 1/4". I think that the issue with the ball pocketing is the degree of angle on the pocket facing being a tad bit too wide.

Black Cat

I agree with this. That pocket looks a lot like the pockets on my Olhausen - huge but with a deeper shelf. You may be experiencing something like the "Olhausen rattle".

 

[Pjaze]

Thanks for all the input guys,

Does anyone know an easy way to measure the angle that the cussion is coming off at to head into the pocket?

Looks like I am going to deal with it until I get my self a new place with a giant pool room and air conditioning. Once I have the perfect spot for it I will re-cussion and re-felt the thing. The table cost me 3.5k in the first place, so another 1.5k to basically make it new again is ok.

I get back home on friday so will take some more pictures and post them up.

I will also take the advice of asking these questions in the table mechanic section. Thanks again.

 

[Pjaze]

Thought I would just add this question here..

What sort of lighting should be used? I was reading that fluro lights would make the cloth on the table dull after a while?

I am not to worried about appearance, but do any lights effect play at all?

As shown in the pictures above I have a home made table light, 2 fluro lights in a metal box, reasonably high above the table

 

[JolietJames]

What I do when I suspect the pockets are not correct is rifle a ball straight down both rails and see if the pocket accept it.
Our old hall had a Gandy that wouldn't accept the balls and they had the rails repaired.
Its not a real technical test but even my 4" pockets accept balls run down the rails with speed.

 

[Pjaze]

As promised -- another picture of my pocket with balls in them for perspective.

I have come to the conclusion that my pockets are quiet large at the opening, but the angle of the cusion cutting back into the pocket is not right, causing balls to jaw more then usual.

I went and played at a pool hall, and was amazed at some of the balls that dropped as they would never ever drop on my table.