Needing to find 2 taps

blackhawk357m

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just got done reading and watching Chris Hightower's book and dvd's. Made out a list of supplies and can't find a supplier that carries:

5/8-11 H1 Factor Tap
3/8-10 Piloted Tap

Unique doesn't have them, nor does Prather. Atlas has them but "out of stock" well, for the 3/8-10...can't find the 5/8-11 anywhere

Can anyone please help?
 
I just got done reading and watching Chris Hightower's book and dvd's. Made out a list of supplies and can't find a supplier that carries:

5/8-11 H1 Factor Tap
3/8-10 Piloted Tap

Unique doesn't have them, nor does Prather. Atlas has them but "out of stock" well, for the 3/8-10...can't find the 5/8-11 anywhere

Can anyone please help?
i dont know what a factor tap is????
but i bought mine 5/8x11 at grizzly
http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/3-pc-High-Speed-Steel-Tap-Set-5-8-11/G9389
 
I just got done reading and watching Chris Hightower's book and dvd's. Made out a list of supplies and can't find a supplier that carries:

5/8-11 H1 Factor Tap
3/8-10 Piloted Tap

Unique doesn't have them, nor does Prather. Atlas has them but "out of stock" well, for the 3/8-10...can't find the 5/8-11 anywhere

Can anyone please help?
The H1 factor tap is not as important on the 5/8-11 as it is on the 5/16-18. A normal plug tap will do the job. Atlas is the only one I know that normally sells the 3/8-10 tap with pilot.
 
ok, found the 5/8-11...gonna go with the ones from grizzly
guess i need to wait for the 3/8-10 from atlas lol

thanks for the replies and info!
 
Pilot

I have posted this before, but maybe it needs repeating: if you have access to a decent metal lathe you can make your own pilots for any tap. I have put pilots on my 3/8 X 10 taps, 5/16X14, as well as 3/8 X 16X 8 inch long taps, for my connecting screws, and many other sizes. You just need to make sure the tap is running true, and firmly gripped in a collet or true running chuck, then use a carbide insert bit with a very slow feed and light cut. Cut them until you have a round "tit" at the end of the tap and full threads when the shoulder of the tit is reached. Support the nose of the tap with an extended tip live center when cutting it and also lube it with cutting oil. Cut it down until you have the diameter wanted for a button that you should have made previously, with a center hole that will press fit onto the tap. Press the button onto the tap, no need for more than a light press fit. Then just chuck the tap up again and cut the button down to the exact diameter you want for a pilot. Again supporting the nose of the tap with the extended nose center. It is not all that difficult, and you can make any size pilot you want. I must have done this to at least six of my most common taps I use. the results will speak for themselves.
 
Re: Pilot

I have never tried to cut HSS with Carbide... I'd try it but I don't think my cue lathe will handle it. I've cut some pretty hard stuff with Ceratip years ago but not an interrupted cut and you have to use a high speed and feed rate.

The way I'd do the Pilot is with either a laminate trimmer or a Dremel tool (actually I'd take it to my buddy's shop and spin it up on a surface grinder).

Use one of those hard white grinding wheels to grind the pilot. True the tap in the chuck and spin it around around 60 rpms or so. Then feed in the carriage to slowly grind the pilot on. I'd probably take .005 total off at a pass.... even at 30,000 RPMs I wouldn't push it too much. Try to get the grinding bit fairly close to center. Maybe cock it a bit so its only grinding with the front edge. May have to dress up the wheel a few times, I don't think they are made all that well

Note: I have NOT tried this but I am pretty sure I could do it on my Cuesmith.

The only problem I can think of is that you may not have any rake on the lead threads. Maybe that's why there is a relief cut down after the pilot. Have to look at one of my taps later.
 
Be very carefull

I have never tried to cut HSS with Carbide... I'd try it but I don't think my cue lathe will handle it. I've cut some pretty hard stuff with Ceratip years ago but not an interrupted cut and you have to use a high speed and feed rate.

The way I'd do the Pilot is with either a laminate trimmer or a Dremel tool (actually I'd take it to my buddy's shop and spin it up on a surface grinder).

Use one of those hard white grinding wheels to grind the pilot. True the tap in the chuck and spin it around around 60 rpms or so. Then feed in the carriage to slowly grind the pilot on. I'd probably take .005 total off at a pass.... even at 30,000 RPMs I wouldn't push it too much. Try to get the grinding bit fairly close to center. Maybe cock it a bit so its only grinding with the front edge. May have to dress up the wheel a few times, I don't think they are made all that well

Note: I have NOT tried this but I am pretty sure I could do it on my Cuesmith.

The only problem I can think of is that you may not have any rake on the lead threads. Maybe that's why there is a relief cut down after the pilot. Have to look at one of my taps later.

Sounds scary to me running the white grinding wheels at 30 or worse 60 thousand rpms and it catching one of the tap flutes on the sharp edge it could be an explosion that go's through safety glasses and eyeballs,throats or chest cavity's. Please be carefull--Leonard
 
As I posted it

One needs to cut down a tap with a precise metal lathe. A lathe with tight gibbs and close tolerances. No offense to the Cueman, porper, unique, or clones out there. I have a deluxe and love it, I have three different Unique's and love them, but I give the devil its due for specific jobs: there is the right tool. A tool post grinder on a metal lathe would grind a tap down nice, I would think that with a spray of lubricant it would be the ideal way to go. But an appropriate carbide bit mounted on a solid post and carriage, with the proper speed, feed, and lubricant works nicely too. A little router running a small grinding stone may work with a deluxe that was carefully dialed in and tight, but not very wise as far as safety or dollar sense goes. It will take a lot of stones to get a nice square cut. And just think about all those grinding stone particles getting into every nook and cranny of your cue lathe, dooming it to premature failure in the future. Makes me cringe.
 
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Sounds scary to me running the white grinding wheels at 30 or worse 60 thousand rpms and it catching one of the tap flutes on the sharp edge it could be an explosion that go's through safety glasses and eyeballs,throats or chest cavity's. Please be carefull--Leonard

Safety, Safety, Safety. All these things are a little dangerous. Even that cue lathe has enough torque to rip a finger off or cut you clean to the bone.

Those little wheels they sell with the Dremel are pretty solid..... they know the people they are selling them to don't have experience and make them reasonably safe. They also know people will do stupid stuff with them..... like grinding a tap on a lathe :)

If you don't truly understand how to do this, have them done in a machine shop. Seriously! Money well spent.
 
One needs to cut down a tap with a precise metal lathe. A lathe with tight gibbs and close tolerances. No offense to the Cueman, porper, unique, or clones out there. I have a deluxe and love it, I have three different Unique's and love them, but I give the devil its due for specific jobs: there is the right tool. A tool post grinder on a metal lathe would grind a tap down nice, I would think that with a spray of lubricant it would be the ideal way to go. But an appropriate carbide bit mounted on a solid post and carriage, with the proper speed, feed, and lubricant works nicely too. A little router running a small grinding stone may work with a deluxe that was carefully dialed in and tight, but not very wise as far as safety or dollar sense goes. It will take a lot of stones to get a nice square cut. And just think about all those grinding stone particles getting into every nook and cranny of your cue lathe, dooming it to premature failure in the future. Makes me cringe.

Funny and very good points. A toolpost grinder is an excellent idea but rather expensive if you're only doing a couple taps.

The dust could be a problem. Cover up what you can and use a vacuum up close.

I would rough grind it down close to size no matter how I did the final turn to size. For that I would either make a jig and spin it down on my tool grinder or maybe try holding the end of the tap with a center in one hand and spin it with the other hand to .030 or so oversize. You'll need a little dexterity for that.

A better way to rough might be to tap through piece of wood, run the tap through it so the end sticks out, if its loose lock it down by runnning a nut on it and tighten. Then you can hold the piece of wood and rough grind it. Unless you've done a fair amount of freehand grinding, I wouldn't count on keeping it concentric. You can always check your progres by chucking up a center and spin the end of the tap with your hand and look to see how much it runs out (or use an indicator but I wouldn't bother getting it that close).

The way I would do it at a machine ship:

Rough the tap down by hand
Put the tap in a Hardinge 5C collet holder.
Look it open so I can spin it
Dress the grinding wheel (White Norton wheel on a surface grinder)
Mount the hardinge on magnetic plate of the surface grinder
Lock the sliding table with the wheel directly above the center of the tap or slightly past... you don't want it jumping into the tap.
Spin the tap and bring down the wheel til it touches and move wheel off tap
Dial down maybe .005 don't think I'd try any more that .010 but its been a while.
Spin the tap and turn the handle for the cross slide slowly until you reach the end of where you want to grind
Mark with spot with tape, lines and the number on the dial
Move back out, dial down and repeat until I reach final size.

The method I described earlier with the Dremel will work but if you really don't understand how and why it will work, get someone to grind it for you. No matter which method you try, they are all somewhat dangerous.
Think Safe!!!
 
The H number,as well as the practically unused L (undersized) rating,is a guideline for tapping a hole to produce the desired or required thread fit classification.

H1 = Basic to Plus 0.0005"
H2 = Basic Plus 0.0005" to Plus 0.0010"
H3 = Basic Plus 0.0010" to Plus 0.0015"
H4 = Basic Plus 0.0015" to Plus 0.0020"
H5 = Basic Plus 0.0020" to Plus 0.0025"
H6 = Basic Plus 0.0025" to Plus 0.0030"
H7 = Basic Plus 0.0030" to Plus 0.0035"

I don't think these numbers have ever changed,the info I posted above came from 14th edition Machinery's Handbook,printed in 1949. Tommy D.
 
Thanks Tommy. I was wondering what the H factor was. I figured the lower the # the tighter the tap but I didn't think to look in my Machinist HB to see what it actually meant. Kudos!

Does anyone know where to get a 3/8-10 Piloted tap? Eric at Atlas cannot give me an ETA.
I could make my own but I really don't want to burn a couple hours between driving to my friend's shop and grinding a tap.
 
Thanks Tommy. I was wondering what the H factor was. I figured the lower the # the tighter the tap but I didn't think to look in my Machinist HB to see what it actually meant. Kudos!

Does anyone know where to get a 3/8-10 Piloted tap? Eric at Atlas cannot give me an ETA.
I could make my own but I really don't want to burn a couple hours between driving to my friend's shop and grinding a tap.


The leads on the taps are very nice, but we Cue makers have made cues for years and years without them. On the radial ball screws, I think the lead is especially important but I don't think they are necessary on standard V pitched threads. Of course some of the new school makers might disagree but Yesterday, Things were different. Not so much better or worse depending on the individual, just different. It might be a safe bet that I have more taps and dies than most makers today and the only one with a lead on it is the radial ball screw.
 
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