It's no ones fault other than the IPT. They are the only one to blame.
That's a fact you can take to the bank!
That's a fact you can take to the bank!
New ad email from IPT
- Thread starter Billiard Architect
- Start date
I don't understand - the IPT is to blame if someone else paints a negative picture which causes a deal to fall through? Of course the IPT is to blame for the situation they are in regarding their obligations to the players. That is not in dispute.
What is in dispute is whether the IPT should have the right to attempt to do business unmolested or not at this point. Personally, if it is something that has a chance to positively affect the IPT and doesn't cost the IPT money then I say they should be allowed to do it. If the IPT however were to announce that they intended to purchase a warehouse to be converted to the IPT Pro Arena then I say no they should not be allowed to do such a thing until they discharge the obligations to the players.
We need to keep one thing straight here. The IPT owes the players 3 million, not us. If any of us are actively preventing the IPT from doing business then we are complicit in the players not being paid. Even if this statement is a hard pill to swallow it's true.
Because, to date, the IPT has made no statement of impending bankruptcy, they have not yet stiffed the qualifiers for the 2007 tour cards, and they have not closed up shop. If there is any effort to force the IPT to do business a certain way then it should be a legal one. Because restraining the IPT from doing business because we don't like them is also illegal and we don't want to be on the IPT's level do we?
What is in dispute is whether the IPT should have the right to attempt to do business unmolested or not at this point. Personally, if it is something that has a chance to positively affect the IPT and doesn't cost the IPT money then I say they should be allowed to do it. If the IPT however were to announce that they intended to purchase a warehouse to be converted to the IPT Pro Arena then I say no they should not be allowed to do such a thing until they discharge the obligations to the players.
We need to keep one thing straight here. The IPT owes the players 3 million, not us. If any of us are actively preventing the IPT from doing business then we are complicit in the players not being paid. Even if this statement is a hard pill to swallow it's true.
Because, to date, the IPT has made no statement of impending bankruptcy, they have not yet stiffed the qualifiers for the 2007 tour cards, and they have not closed up shop. If there is any effort to force the IPT to do business a certain way then it should be a legal one. Because restraining the IPT from doing business because we don't like them is also illegal and we don't want to be on the IPT's level do we?
Only A Guess
Ah, the NAYSAYERS ?
Doug
ironman said:
Ah, the NAYSAYERS ?
Doug
NYC cue dude
Banned
Memikey, it is a fact that NOT all the players from the north american open have been paid.
Furthermore, as far as the cancellation is concerned, it isnt that hard to find out, in this day and age, who your doing business with. I don't know the particulars of this situation, but perhaps this company did a dun and bradstreet or some other check.
KT is the most sued man in the history of the us, with over 600 law suits. Steve and barry's is a chicago company, i'm sure it didnt take much for them to figure out who the "ipt" is.
rg
Furthermore, as far as the cancellation is concerned, it isnt that hard to find out, in this day and age, who your doing business with. I don't know the particulars of this situation, but perhaps this company did a dun and bradstreet or some other check.
KT is the most sued man in the history of the us, with over 600 law suits. Steve and barry's is a chicago company, i'm sure it didnt take much for them to figure out who the "ipt" is.
rg
NYC cue dude said:
Thanks for that info NYC. I did post my remark in the form of a question cos all I knew for sure was that Timberely's understandable accidental slip in saying that "none" had been paid was definitely wrong. It is disappointing but interesting to hear confirmation from you that one or more players are in fact still unpaid for The NA Open. Presumably the player(s) concerned had asked IPT to hold the payment pending the finalisation of their tax formalities in the same way that several of the Uk lads did but did not yet receive payment like most of the Uk players did a couple of weeks ago. That must be particularly hard to bear given the way circumstances have developed and I sincerely hope the player(s) concerned eventually get a good result one way or another.
I realise that the rest of your post wasn't directed in response to anything I'd posted but for what it's worth I'd completely agree with your comments in those respects.
NYC cue dude
Banned
Yes, Memikey, as afar as I know, it is only foreign players that have not been paidfor the north american open. Yes, it was related to the waiting period for the tax forms. Some are owed a considerable amount. Not sure if any US players remain unpaid.
RG
RG
Try It And See For Yourself
Originally Posted by Smorgass Bored
Ah, the NAYSAYERS ?
Doug
Well sure, but Naysayers is much easier to say with a mouth full of popcorn....
Doug
( oddly, it doesn't apply to a mouthful of Jack Daniels )
Originally Posted by Smorgass Bored
Ah, the NAYSAYERS ?
Doug
cuetique said:
Well sure, but Naysayers is much easier to say with a mouth full of popcorn....
Doug
( oddly, it doesn't apply to a mouthful of Jack Daniels )
No, not directed at anyone. Just making a statement about possible issues as I see them.
The "trying to protect others by informing them of the facts" is exactly what I am talking about. What we see as "trying to protect" may be seen as "tampering" or whatever legal term there is for direct interference in business dealings. What we think are facts may not be seen the same way by a court so when we enter the arena of actually taking action we need to be sure that our actions are productive in the right way.
At this point I have no idea where things stand regarding the IPT and "legal action". What I do know from experience is that when "legal action" has been initiated, that is a lawsuit filed, then the actions of the parties become very critical to the case at that point.
So what we don't need is the IPT to be able to point to us and say well, we could have paid the players but we were facing a small group of people who went out of their way to sabotage our efforts whenever we were about to make a deal. It's clear that Trudeau is slimeball. Don't give him the escape route.
It should be very clear to everyone that any actions should be handled through the attorneys at this point. At least this is what I think. The more the IPT does without paying the players is either going to be beneficial to the players at some point or it is going to be further ammunition for the plaintiffs(players) down the road. There is no need to be radically militant and try and screw up the IPT any more than it already is.
Nothing makes me think that any money brought in to the IPT will ever go to the players except that I think Trudeau is such an egomaniac that he can't let go of the notion that he can make pro pool into a billion dollar entity and wind up owning most of it. Thus I believe he might be driven to PROVE that he is right which would mean that he would have to clear up his bill to have any chance of moving forward.
There are still too many ifs in this situation for any of us to be totally secure in about "painting a picture" of the IPT for the purpose of "protecting" others when the likely result of that painting will be a totally hands-off realtionship to the IPT.
If you want to truly go that far then why don't you force Mike Howerton to pull the banner ads for the IPT? Surely he has the picture in high definition .
Taking Trudeau's personality out of it - we can all relate to companies that have had tough times fiscally, whether by mismanagement, bad investments, or market downturns. Many of them were characterized by how they handled that misfortune and a lot of them handled them about as bad as the IPT is doing. Some of them came through despite that and were able to turn into good thriving companies.
A lot of emotion has been spent on the IPT these past two months. Nerves are really raw. I am asking everyone to take a breath and let nature take it's course and let the legal vultures begin the process of picking apart the IPT.
Again, I am NOT saying that anyone in particular queered the deal with S&B. I am saying I hope no one did from our side and stating my reasons why I feel that way. The best of intentions often do more harm than good. And that's all I can say about this.
The "trying to protect others by informing them of the facts" is exactly what I am talking about. What we see as "trying to protect" may be seen as "tampering" or whatever legal term there is for direct interference in business dealings. What we think are facts may not be seen the same way by a court so when we enter the arena of actually taking action we need to be sure that our actions are productive in the right way.
At this point I have no idea where things stand regarding the IPT and "legal action". What I do know from experience is that when "legal action" has been initiated, that is a lawsuit filed, then the actions of the parties become very critical to the case at that point.
So what we don't need is the IPT to be able to point to us and say well, we could have paid the players but we were facing a small group of people who went out of their way to sabotage our efforts whenever we were about to make a deal. It's clear that Trudeau is slimeball. Don't give him the escape route.
It should be very clear to everyone that any actions should be handled through the attorneys at this point. At least this is what I think. The more the IPT does without paying the players is either going to be beneficial to the players at some point or it is going to be further ammunition for the plaintiffs(players) down the road. There is no need to be radically militant and try and screw up the IPT any more than it already is.
Nothing makes me think that any money brought in to the IPT will ever go to the players except that I think Trudeau is such an egomaniac that he can't let go of the notion that he can make pro pool into a billion dollar entity and wind up owning most of it. Thus I believe he might be driven to PROVE that he is right which would mean that he would have to clear up his bill to have any chance of moving forward.
There are still too many ifs in this situation for any of us to be totally secure in about "painting a picture" of the IPT for the purpose of "protecting" others when the likely result of that painting will be a totally hands-off realtionship to the IPT.
If you want to truly go that far then why don't you force Mike Howerton to pull the banner ads for the IPT? Surely he has the picture in high definition .
Taking Trudeau's personality out of it - we can all relate to companies that have had tough times fiscally, whether by mismanagement, bad investments, or market downturns. Many of them were characterized by how they handled that misfortune and a lot of them handled them about as bad as the IPT is doing. Some of them came through despite that and were able to turn into good thriving companies.
A lot of emotion has been spent on the IPT these past two months. Nerves are really raw. I am asking everyone to take a breath and let nature take it's course and let the legal vultures begin the process of picking apart the IPT.
Again, I am NOT saying that anyone in particular queered the deal with S&B. I am saying I hope no one did from our side and stating my reasons why I feel that way. The best of intentions often do more harm than good. And that's all I can say about this.
Roadie said:
Not that I disagree with you on any of these points, I agree that often good intentions may cause damage to "the Cause".
For arguments sake though, do you feel it wrong to try and inform or persuade a room ownner, or friend from participating or hosting future qualifiers?
ironman said:
Ironman, Absolutely not wrong to inform anyone of the facts surrounding the IPT. Persuade? Well, personally, I would have to be very close to someone, or be before a judge, before I try to persuade anyone about anything.
Sorry if the question was directed only to Roadie. Although, I think that his position, though more cryptic, is also clear.
Jim
Roadie said:
I agree with these thoughts. A lot of comments here recently have been very emotional. Its understandable but not helpful. If you do want to hurt KT why announce it on a public site? Reporting the facts will do the job in time.
ironman said:
No I don't. Right now I would certainly discuss it with them to make sure that they were informed of the latest news. What I wouldn't do is interject all the stuff about KT's past and all the psychological speculation about his motives. For that I wold direct them to this board and tell them to make their own decision.
I personally would feel like crap if I tried to tell someone they should not do something with the IPT because it is my opinion that the IPT will screw them, and then they didn't and through smoe miracle the IPT finds funding and goes on to glory while my friend is left out having blown his last real chance to get in based on my advice. Of course he would still have chances but it's not my place to make the kind of judgement that tells him he should definitely pass on this on based on what is now known. It is my duty however to apprise him of the situation.
So, there's the rub. I suppose any of us can point to anyone towards this board knowing the the probable outcome will be that they pass on the IPT. If I were a Steve and Barry's marketing person I'd probably look at this board and think that the participants here are my potential customers and not want to anger them by deliberately going ahead with the IPT. So, in the end I don't know what the right move is.
I'd like to have the power to take Trudeau and lock him in a room with the 200 players he owes money to and not let him out until he has found a way to pay it off. I am all for immediate retribution, make a promise that people base their life on and don't keep it then expect to be suffering (atoning) for it for a long time.
I don't know what to do at this point. Mrs. Romano is however correct, the IPT itself is 100% to blame for the situation wherein people are militantly aligned against them. They could have managed this so much differently and perhaps even have had a movement of people willing to help them. As it is though, if their deals are queered then it's only what they have sown. I just hope that such action doesn't also screw the players further.
Roadie said:
I don't know why the exhibitions were cancelled, and because of the timing of events just before, I had the same concerns.
But a little later, I felt like "so what" if someone from here called or lobbied S&B to reconsider their partnership with the IPT. If the deal between the IPT and S&B was so weak and uncertain that a phone call or a visit from a stranger could end it in a few hours, then it obviously wasn't much of a deal to begin with.
I figure if something like that happened, even from someone here, then it wouldn't be much different than when citizen's groups lobby television companies and their advertisers to change certain programming. The companies, like S&B, are free to choose to ignore these kind of complaints if they want. As long as people aren't misrepresenting the facts, then that's just too bad if a company's bad wrap costs itself money.