New announcement out

jay helfert said:
I like the way he buys another full week so easily. Let's see, that brings us to Oct. 30. According to this the checks would be going out around the 1st of November, and in players hands by Nov. 5. Many players will already be in Manila for the WPC by then.

By my calendar, that makes it nearly two full months since the World Open ended and Fedex failed to deliver the checks.

We shall see. The plot thickens. I will say this once again. For a promoter who promised on time and immediate payment of all prize monies, he has set a new record for tardiness.

And please, don't anyone tell me about all he has done for Pool and the poolplayers. That is a broken record already. Regardless of what he did or didn't do, he has become the biggest liar in the history of professional pool!

A dubious distinction, but well earned.
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I believe Barry Behrman set that record already by having players who weren't paid and may still not be paid in full for the US Open in 2001. As well as players who haven't been paid from the Spring Masters tournament as well.

Remember the "guaranteed" prize money at the US Open that wasn't in fact guaranteed? Who bore the brunt of that? The players did.

Trudeau has the distinction at the moment of having the largest prize fund on record being unpaid.

Biggest liar? Definitely. Largest short-term benefactor? Yes, that as well.

This whole drama is getting hilarious. Every utterance by Trudeau is visciously dissected and analyzed for it's "true meaning". It's quite possible that Harvard Classical Literature PhD candidates haven't put as much effort into dissecting the written word as this group has.

I tend to agree with Friend's assesment. Why go to the trouble if the thing is dead anyway? Trudeau is probably not worried about legal proceedings regarding the IPT. It has been said that he has probably insulated himself and his companies in that regard and he probably has. It is unlikely that he is doing a public stall in order to further protect himself here as fraud might be difficult to prove without testimony from IPT employees.

Of course none of us will believe anything but statements of payment being received and cleared. That is a given. To dissect every word though is really an act of boredom and frustration as nothing we say about whatever Trudeau pronounces will make a bit of difference.

I just hope that, if Trudeau does not follow through with payment soon, that the players will stand up for themselves and initiate legal action of some sort. I hope that they will stand up for themselves in any case at the next player's meeting and become the partners that Trudeau promised them that they would be.
 
Roadie said:
I believe Barry Behrman set that record already by having players who weren't paid and may still not be paid in full for the US Open in 2001. As well as players who haven't been paid from the Spring Masters tournament as well.
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Actually I believe it's the eurotour, who it is rumoured that they still owe money from the mid-90s... (That's before they started a new company, and reorganized everything. No the eurotour is GREAT)

I think it was Mika Immonen and former Norwegian top-player Raymond Hauge got checks with no value back then.


However, while posting the other post in this thread I actually received the announcement on email from Deno, so it looks like they have started to inform the TD's afterall! Positive!
 
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jamesroberts said:
well if the prize fund is less in chicago that would piss me off even more than waiting 2 months for my money....the reason being i need to have a good tourney to secure my spot for next year..and if the money is less thats just not fair ..............a really really good tourney :) lol
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Fully understand your concerns and justified frustrations James.

The thing that surpised a lot of observers is that members didn't make much of a fuss over the cancellation of London given that the cancellation for many brought into the equation just the type of potential circumstance that you describe ..........apart (presumably) from the additional anger and general disappointment at the sheer brass of neck of IPT just unilaterally removing a huge chunk of published guaranteed 2006 prize money at a fell swoop.

Unfortunately if IPT couldn't afford to stage London (and the words from the cancelled London venue's side plus all other circumstances to date suggest precisely that) and if they are still significantly under-funded now (which appears to now freely admitted by KT) you are going to have to come to terms with the very real possibility that the Chicago members only event may not happen at all,never mind happen with reduced prize money.

It wouldn't surprise a great deal if it is cancelled shortly and the existing Chicago dates or slightly delayed dates or the existing Wynn dates are instead used to stage the KOH and the 2007 tour card qualifier at Chicago,thus saving further prize money and minimising the running expenses.Those players currently well up the money list would accept it with a shrug of the shoulders,those players currently well down the money list don't figure much in IPt's future plans anyway as they have served their purpose and what could they do about it anyway? Those people who have qualified for the tour card event won't mind one bit and previous players' reactions to the London cancellation experience and to the delayed Reno payment issue will have already convinced IPT they can do as they please without too much furore arising.

I know that sounds stone cold but it doesn't mean that there is no empathy with the players for the difficulties they might face in this and other potential predicaments.I work in connection with investigation of dubious financial circumstances brought about by "shake hands and count you fingers" personalities every week of my life and therefore tend to be over-cynical.......but the approach leads to fewer disappointments and sometimes pleasant surprises.I genuinely hope this turns out to be one of the latter:)
 
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av84fun said:
Jay...<<And by the way, according to his prior e-mail, this was supposed to be the week the checks went out.>>

And there is a Catch 22...I think. I take NYC Dude at his word that a lawsuit may be initiated. I would GUESS that in any such suit an injunction would be sought to at least temporarily prevent any payments to anyone until the suit...if it is filed...gets into gear.

Those who earned smaller sums have a right to protect themselves against any unequal payout percentages. I just don't think that a court would permit the Top finishers to be paid out a higher percentage of what was promised than the lower finishers.

In addition, any two players....or other creditors...could file for involuntary bankruptcy against the IPT and then FOR SURE...the breaks would be slammed on and NOTHING would go to ANYONE.

I am not suggesting or recommending anything contained in the above...just pointing out what a legal rat's nest this can turn into in a...well...NYC minute.

Regards,
Jim
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Jim,

IMO those that won smaller sums will receive a greater % (if not their entire prize) than those that won greater sums.

As an invester I'll know what my player is told.

Not many will know what all the PLAYERS will be told....
 
Ribdoner...<<Jim,

IMO those that won smaller sums will receive a greater % (if not their entire prize) than those that won greater sums.

As an invester I'll know what my player is told.

Not many will know what all the PLAYERS will be told....>>

You could very well be correct. If so, just invert the Catch 22 and make it Catch 11 or Catch 44. (-:

In either event IMO...EACH player has a contract...oral or otherwise...and has a right to legal redress for any underpayment. He/she would also have the right to seek to enjoin any payment that would tend to bleed of his/her opportunity for recovery. Of course, whether any such injunction would be granted is up to a judge.

But, if a petition for involuntary bankruptcy were filed, then either the payments would be halted or they would become "preference items" and subject to recovery by the U.S. Trustee.

All sort of interesting...in a morbid sort of way but then...hey, it's almost Halloween!
(-:
Jim
 
Roadie said:
I believe Barry Behrman set that record already by having players who weren't paid and may still not be paid in full for the US Open in 2001. As well as players who haven't been paid from the Spring Masters tournament as well.

Remember the "guaranteed" prize money at the US Open that wasn't in fact guaranteed? Who bore the brunt of that? The players did.

Trudeau has the distinction at the moment of having the largest prize fund on record being unpaid.

Biggest liar? Definitely. Largest short-term benefactor? Yes, that as well.

This whole drama is getting hilarious. Every utterance by Trudeau is visciously dissected and analyzed for it's "true meaning". It's quite possible that Harvard Classical Literature PhD candidates haven't put as much effort into dissecting the written word as this group has.

I tend to agree with Friend's assesment. Why go to the trouble if the thing is dead anyway? Trudeau is probably not worried about legal proceedings regarding the IPT. It has been said that he has probably insulated himself and his companies in that regard and he probably has. It is unlikely that he is doing a public stall in order to further protect himself here as fraud might be difficult to prove without testimony from IPT employees.

Of course none of us will believe anything but statements of payment being received and cleared. That is a given. To dissect every word though is really an act of boredom and frustration as nothing we say about whatever Trudeau pronounces will make a bit of difference.

I just hope that, if Trudeau does not follow through with payment soon, that the players will stand up for themselves and initiate legal action of some sort. I hope that they will stand up for themselves in any case at the next player's meeting and become the partners that Trudeau promised them that they would be.
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I stand corrected on my earlier statement. Thank you. And you are right about another thing. All of his utterings and all of our dissection don't really amount to a hill of beans. The only thing that matters is the $3,000,000 is either paid or not.

And it will probably all come down to what happens in November. If it is not settled up before the Chicago event, then it is all probably finished. Then Plan B goes into effect, namely chasing down the money.

If by some miracle it is paid, then hopefully the players will unite in Chicago, and make their voices heard. I cannot imagine them following blindly after all this.
 
Russ Chewning said:
So (Heh heh).. Lemme get this straight.. (Haw haw)

He basically said (chuckle) that...

"We're almost done 'finalizing' yada yada yackety smackety, and the players will get paid 'soon'"?

Right? I mean.. That pretty much sums it up... Right?

And this is different than his last 3 or 4 letters...how?

Sigh.

Russ
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What is so funny Mr. Russ?

Are you happy about this situation? I mean, are you happy that (in your mind) the IPT is failing, and the players are not reseiving their checks and the Pool as a sport is not climbing few levels higher?

Tell me Russ, as a 'Pool fan', what is so funny in this situation???


Ps. Luckily (IMO), this 'situation', probably is not so bad overall. I really hope you don't get depressed if the IPT succeeds..
 
Marvel said:
What is so funny Mr. Russ?

Are you happy about this situation? I mean, are you happy that (in your mind) the IPT is failing, and the players are not reseiving their checks and the Pool as a sport is not climbing few levels higher?

Tell me Russ, as a 'Pool fan', what is so funny in this situation???


Ps. Luckily (IMO), this 'situation', probably is not so bad overall. I really hope you don't get depressed if the IPT succeeds..
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I think Russ is laughing at the fact the letters have been the same for the last 4 weeks. I think its funny too. But not funny towards the player, I feel sorry the players have to put up with this tardiness. The players are deserving of more respect.

The letter is funny that is all Marvel. Its funny KT thinks we are all imbeciles and try to sell us nonsence.

If he just told the truth that he is trying his hardest to aquire the funds people would be more forgiving. But this carrot on a stick is getting old thats all.
 
Noodles said:
....... But this carrot on a stick is getting old thats all.
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Undoubtedly.....................but seeing as your own posting signature reads "www.poolcomps.com. Play now,win big!" is there more than a hint of irony in this comment or do I just have a jaundiced eye?;)
 
jimmyg said:
Tim, I too, truly hope that they get paid in full, almost as much as you do, but read the e-mail again and remember who's signature is on the bottom.

He's a lot clearer this time: the "financing package is lower than expected", "the shortfall will be made up at the IPO and other iniatives".

Why else would someone from office need to call "each and every one of you" before sending out the checks, if not to outline the new deal?

Timberly, only my take, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe something less is better than nothing. Remember, this guy is a real snake.
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Possibly a very good anlysis JimmyG.......especially when you read it in the context of earlier announcements including the previously mentioned (but now apparently ignored) "nice surprise" that players were going to get as a gesture of compensation for their patience.

In the space of a week the champagne popping financing package has now become "lower than expected" so perhaps they will shortly be told that instead of getting their full Reno prize money plus some share stock at the IPO (which KT might say was going to be the nice surprise) they will now instead get a percentage of their Reno winnings in cash/cheques and the balance,posibly even more than the balance, in share stock at the IPO when it comes off.

He might even sell the idea as an even bigger pop the champagne situation which will "make the players true partners in the venture and enable them to reap the full rewards they deserve when the share price of Ho Interactive then soars on the stock market shortly after launch of the IPO". Faced with such a deal all those players who have so far publicly maintained a demeanour of continued faith in IPT and KT will have little option but to demonstrate that faith further by accepting it enthusiastically.If they don't it would be seen as evidence that they do not believe in the future of IPT or Ho Interactive. It might even be better than the money up front in the long run......who knows for sure?

Don't anyone go all grumpy on me now and take this too seriously.....it's just a film script I'm hawking around the studios and can't really happen....can it?;)
 
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Can't see the tour being "bought" by anyone.

It's a pipe dream..

This supposed deal was never on imho but th more it is talked about, the more it seems like fact. In much the same way as if I rang up google and told them I had a site for sale for $2.9bn. I could then, legitimately, report their interest whilst conveniantly leaving out the fact that on sight of my Antie Sally's embroidery web site, they were much less interested.
 
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Well guys, I haven't read the entire thread but, after seeing the initial post, I guess it's time to pop the champagne ... again! ;)
 
THE MOST AMAZING THING about this whole affair is how bloody effective KT has been at deflecting the real, main, central, big, elephant-in-the-freaking-room issue: he was supposed to be the saviour-god who would reform the pro pool world.....wait for it.....wait for it.....out of his OWN pocket.

When did he ever say "Sorry, but I can't do that any longer", or "plans have changed because I'm strapped"?? Nope, that gargantuan ego won't let him show any failure or weakness. He's trusting you to take the bait: the dollars he always dangles just a few feet in front of you, but always slightly out of reach.

He has gone from being the well-heeled sugar-daddy of pool to being just another dodgy promoter, scrambling to hold on to as much cash as he can, and find someone/something/some play to get his ass off the rack.

I'd truly "pop the champagne", if Daddy Bigbucks would just reach into that vast "pocket" of his, and fulfill his promises. Or admit the Feds have cleaned him out, and not as many complete and utter dipshytts have been buying his codswallop books and assorted snake oils.

If he personally has the cash, and he's holding out, he has broken an explicit promise. If he doesn't have the personal cash, he will never be able to pull off the "Greatest Revolution in the Sport of Pool EVER", as he promised. Either way, why would anyone trust this guy farther than they could throw him -- with ONE hand?
 
cuetique said:
THE MOST AMAZING THING about this whole affair is how bloody effective KT has been at deflecting the real, main, central, big, elephant-in-the-freaking-room issue: he was supposed to be the saviour-god who would reform the pro pool world.....wait for it.....wait for it.....out of his OWN pocket.

When did he ever say "Sorry, but I can't do that any longer", or "plans have changed because I'm strapped"?? Nope, that gargantuan ego won't let him show any failure or weakness. He's trusting you to take the bait: the dollars he always dangles just a few feet in front of you, but always slightly out of reach.

He has gone from being the well-heeled sugar-daddy of pool to being just another dodgy promoter, scrambling to hold on to as much cash as he can, and find someone/something/some play to get his ass off the rack.

I'd truly "pop the champagne", if Daddy Bigbucks would just reach into that vast "pocket" of his, and fulfill his promises. Or admit the Feds have cleaned him out, and not as many complete and utter dipshytts have been buying his codswallop books and assorted snake oils.

If he personally has the cash, and he's holding out, he has broken an explicit promise. If he doesn't have the personal cash, he will never be able to pull off the "Greatest Revolution in the Sport of Pool EVER", as he promised. Either way, why would anyone trust this guy farther than they could throw him -- with ONE hand?
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TAP TAP TAP, this is what I'm pissed off about and the point many are missing. This IMO proves that his plan was never to do this, this was the myth, the illussion he created in the hope that hundreds of players would fork out the huge qualifier entries to cover the pot. He got it badly wrong and know he's up $hit creek without a paddle. :mad:
 
Are all of you people reading the same letters that I am? KT has said exactly NOTHING in any of these letters. The sole purpose for these is to stall for more time. The fact is that there is going to be a letter in the next few weeks that says the "Ho" deal is dead for some reason that he will make up. I doubt that there ever was a deal to begin with. He believes that all of this stalling while he says the deal is being negotiated buys him some credibility and will defer the blame to Ho when he says that the tour is dead. He came to the realization months ago that his qualifier structure wasnt going to fund the tour and that a pool tour on this scale will not make him any money. This little 2 month scenario of unpaid checks and negotiation talks is another little scam that he likes to use to defer blame from himself. The only thing that he has been finalizing in the last month are the bankruptcy papers for the tour and the avenues that he needs to take to be protected personally. The bottom line is that KT is a cold hearted, calculated, con man. He tried to start a tour with the hopes that it would become mainstream and make millions. He doesn't give a sh*t about the players, backers, employees, or anyone else. As soon as he found out this wasn't going to happen , he made up some brilliant lie that he could shape and spin as time goes on and make the final outcome as easy as possible for the players to accept. If you will follow the letters closely, he puts a positive spin on everything without saying anything, but subtly introduces a new negative part of the negotiations in each letter. The fact that nobody sees this is testament to how gullible people are that are owed money and how good KT is at manipulating people. I hope I'm wrong about all this, but I will get a big " I told you so " when it comes to fruition.
 
Jimmy M. said:
Well guys, I haven't read the entire thread but, after seeing the initial post, I guess it's time to pop the champagne ... again! ;)
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I think you may have figured out the entire issue. KT's plan is for the players to keep popping the champagne until they get so drunk, they forget all about the money!!! :rolleyes:
Steve
(I wonder who is paying for the champagne?)
 
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