New APA Scoring system

Right!!!

So why is it that everybody thinks they have to win 70% of the time. How do you think the other person feels to win 30% of the time. That is why people quit playing pool. So anything that apa does to make the league and lower skill levels more competitive is great. Cant wait to start this in our area. This is directed to people that have to make money in leagues(no one does) and better players that feel they have to win every time. As amateur players it is our job to get people that don't play pool to get them interested and playing. Thats what will make our sport grow. The 5000 people in america that know anything about pro pool is not nearly enough to make it grow. Sorry bout the rant, little p.o.'d at a few people right now...
 
AcuraHeel said:
ranked a (7) in 8ball and a (9) in 9ball....
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dont know why i did not think you were maxed out lol.

we have a guy on our team who is a (7) in 8 ball with a 75 % win and is an (8) in 9 ball with a 72% win record. thats lifetime, took me 2 years to get him to join my team, he only played masters until he joined my team.
 
Eieio59 said:
So why is it that everybody thinks they have to win 70% of the time. How do you think the other person feels to win 30% of the time. That is why people quit playing pool. So anything that apa does to make the league and lower skill levels more competitive is great. Cant wait to start this in our area. This is directed to people that have to make money in leagues(no one does) and better players that feel they have to win every time. As amateur players it is our job to get people that don't play pool to get them interested and playing. Thats what will make our sport grow. The 5000 people in america that know anything about pro pool is not nearly enough to make it grow. Sorry bout the rant, little p.o.'d at a few people right now...
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Personally...I play every match to win. I'm not ashamed to say it. I play with a bunch of friends and have a blast at league. Why would me wanting to win make people not be interested in playing?

I don't see why I would pay my league $ for a match and not try to win. It for one hurts my team and doesn't make sense. It also would be sandbagging to let someone else win.
 
lorider said:
dont know why i did not think you were maxed out lol.

we have a guy on our team who is a (7) in 8 ball with a 75 % win and is an (8) in 9 ball with a 72% win record. thats lifetime, took me 2 years to get him to join my team, he only played masters until he joined my team.
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I want to say I am at about 81.5% as a 7 in 8 ball which included a year of dumping several matches to stay a 6 about 10 years ago :)...pretty tough to fade 3s that shoot like 5s and play safe lol.
 
4onthebreak said:
It's a stupid change and let me tell you why:

According to my LO this is done so lower ranked players who get on the hill but loose still feel like they are getting their team some points.

For anyone who doesn't know in APA 9-ball a given match between 2 players will yield 20 points between the winner and looser depending on the score. So even if you're a lower ranked player and you loose you'll get your team SOME of those points.

BUT:

For APA 8-ball there is 1 point given to the winner of a match and 0 to the loser. You can win a rack but loose the overall match and get 0 points.

This is disheartening to many and APA apparently is looking for a cure.

Here is the problem:
If I get to the hill but you still beat me then under the new score you get 2 points and I get 1. Under the old system you get and I get 0.

Either way you get a net gain of 1. So there isn't any real change. It's like saying half a dollar instead of 50 cents because the former has the word dollar in it.
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The real change comes when you beat me 2-1 and the next player on my team wins 2-0 or 3-0. Now my team is ahead, whereas in the current system we would only be tied. My hill-hill loss is now meaningful.


4onthebreak said:
The big problem is introducing a 3-0 for a skunk. I captain a team and when this stupid scoring system hits us next session you can bet I won't be going for hill/hill wins and even matchups. I'm going to maximize my shutouts as much as humanly possible.
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That's one possible strategy. I don't think anyone would strategize to win matches hill/hill, but if you have players who are likely to lose you might want to get them a hill/hill loss. That's another possible strategy.


4onthebreak said:
I pity any SL2's because they're going to have a target on their back. Why put up a SL6 or SL7 against another like skill level where you'd be happy with 1 or 2 points? No. You toss them up virus a SL 2,3 or 4 and go for the skunk.

It's a terrible fix to a semi real problem. I believe it'll push the lower ranked players either out of APA or out of 8-ball and DJ to strictly 9-ball players where they have an even chance to win or contribute.
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And that's why we've been testing it for two years. Our test markets show the opposite is true. The lower skill level players like it. The data shows that they contribute a higher percentage of a team's total in the standings than they do under the current system. For the most part, the teams that make the playoffs are the same under both systems, but the seeding may be slightly different and the lower skill level players play a bigger part in the end result. That's what the test markets have shown.

Call it stupid if you want, but I think you just don't understand it completely.
 
4onthebreak said:
The big problem is introducing a 3-0 for a skunk. I captain a team and when this stupid scoring system hits us next session you can bet I won't be going for hill/hill wins and even matchups. I'm going to maximize my shutouts as much as humanly possible.

I pity any SL2's because they're going to have a target on their back. Why put up a SL6 or SL7 against another like skill level where you'd be happy with 1 or 2 points? No. You toss them up virus a SL 2,3 or 4 and go for the skunk.

It's a terrible fix to a semi real problem. I believe it'll push the lower ranked players either out of APA or out of 8-ball and DJ to strictly 9-ball players where they have an even chance to win or contribute.
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the math is against you here, so your plan above won't work. You won't get the shutouts for all 5 games because you can't play that many points. And the other team knows just as well how points work, so if they put up a 3 first, and you put a 7 against them, you can bet they will do the same when you put up a 3. 23 points is 23 points, and I don't see a whole lot of 4s or 5s pulling shutouts on anyone.
 
Just got back into APA last fall after about 10 years

I'm a 7 in 8ball and a 9 in 9ball and from my perspective, this will make 8b more like 9b but only from a point split standpoint, not a strategy standpoint.

My experience so far is that I can beat 2s and 3s without giving up a game most of the time. That's not the case with mid to high handicaps, I usually will lose a game, maybe two, but still usually win the match. So why would captains throw lower levels up against me when they are probably going to get a split of some kind by putting up a mid to high handicap player? It's better than a shut out right?

In 8b, you have to win the game to "score". In 9b, you get some credit for every ball made, so low handicapers can pull off a win against a solid high handicap more often than in 8b I think.

Just going by my recent experience.
 
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I'm looking forward to trying this out. I like pool where there is no giving up , every game counts, play hard or go home.
 
I believe our Tuesday league is adopting the new scoring system with the upcoming session starting next week. My initial cut is I like it. I think it will benefit the teams with more middle rated players and possibly hurt the teams with the skill levels more at the two extremes. I think the 9 ball scoring system helps level the playing field a bit and I believe this new scoring system will do the same in 8 ball.

I don't believe this will ultimately lead to 7's playing 2's or 3's all the time. First off, if I played a 2 or 3 every single week, I'd quit before long. I know there are some amount of APA members who think winning a trip to Vegas is the ultimate goal in life. I play APA for the competition, the camaraderie with the team and the fun in playing. If going to Vegas is that important to me, I'll call my travel agent and book a flight and hotel.
 
The answer is to shut down the handicapped leagues and have everyone play even, and stop pretending that the lesser player has won anything just because he has won a handicapped match.

And if you want to win a nice sized trophy to bring home to use as a door stop, then you'll just have to play better.
 
ChrisBanks said:
The answer is to shut down the handicapped leagues and have everyone play even, and stop pretending that the lesser player has won anything just because he has won a handicapped match.

And if you want to win a nice sized trophy to bring home to use as a door stop, then you'll just have to play better.
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And no calculators at the table.
 
ChrisBanks said:
The answer is to shut down the handicapped leagues and have everyone play even, and stop pretending that the lesser player has won anything just because he has won a handicapped match.

And if you want to win a nice sized trophy to bring home to use as a door stop, then you'll just have to play better.
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There you go Chris, shut down the APA so all the lesser skilled players who have little or no chance at winning will quit pool because they aren't having fun losing every single week. This might have to be the dumbest post I have seen in a long while.
 
Spimp13 said:
There you go Chris, shut down the APA so all the lesser skilled players who have little or no chance at winning will quit pool because they aren't having fun losing every single week. This might have to be the dumbest post I have seen in a long while.
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Sorry friend,

If I could join a league and play Earl Strickland every week, I would continue to play even though I would lose. You left out one thing, the lesser player DESERVES to lose.
 
Don't take my word for it. Earl Strickland has repeatedly said that the APA is responsible for the downfall of pool. Can you disagree with the master himself?
 
ChrisBanks said:
Sorry friend,

If I could join a league and play Earl Strickland every week, I would continue to play even though I would lose. You left out one thing, the lesser player DESERVES to lose.
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I just got off the phone with Alyssa...she wanted me to tell you to think before you post. You are coming off as a turd in a punch bowl type of person...Do you realize how dumb this and your last post make you look? Not everyone is like you and have different reasons to play in league. Saying they should scrap the handicap system leagues for those learning to play the game in a social/fun competitive league is just plain Pecial with a capital P....as ESPN would say "Come on man"!
 
ChrisBanks said:
Don't take my word for it. Earl Strickland has repeatedly said that the APA is responsible for the downfall of pool. Can you disagree with the master himself?
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Earl says a lot of stuff. A lot of it's pretty far out there and over the top even though I love watching Earl play. Appeal to authority is generally a weak argument, but here even more than normal I think.
 
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