New Book on Natural Aim--Aim is the Game in Pool

Thanks Stan

Stan,
I appreciate your opinion and yes I did put a good bit of time in on the book and it is designed more so for someone who is having some problems with their aiming and not so much for an accomplished player.

The book is designed as a step process to natural aim. It is definitely not an aiming system such as cte book. I use all the methods in my book and I play pretty darn well. Just like some people love cte it doesnt flip my switch and is why I offered up an alternative. I felt as if the subject was rife with complications beyond belief and I see the art as very simple needing only some reference points that to me are easy to see and find.

It must work because I sure dont miss a lot so I wanted to share it and I have.

Im not defensive in the least about the validity of my information except that hey aim is just not rocket science its pool and reference systems work and thats what I love about them.

Thanks for your appraisal.

Robin Kelly
336robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
336Robin said:
Stan,
I appreciate your opinion and yes I did put a good bit of time in on the book and it is designed more so for someone who is having some problems with their aiming and not so much for an accomplished player.

The book is designed as a step process to natural aim. It is definitely not an aiming system such as cte book. I use all the methods in my book and I play pretty darn well. Just like some people love cte it doesnt flip my switch and is why I offered up an alternative. I felt as if the subject was rife with complications beyond belief and I see the art as very simple needing only some reference points that to me are easy to see and find.

It must work because I sure dont miss a lot so I wanted to share it and I have.

Im not defensive in the least about the validity of my information except that hey aim is just not rocket science its pool and reference systems work and thats what I love about them.

Thanks for your appraisal.

Robin Kelly
336robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Click to expand...

I'd love to review the book if you're ever interested. I know about almost every way to aim and would love to give an honest and fair review.
-Spidersomebody :)
 
Reply to Scott

Scott,
Youre an instructor with the BCA and obviously a knowledgeable person that knows the answer to the question you posed to me. I didnt cover that in my book I stayed more with aim hence the name of the book.

Aim is the Game in Pool

I do cover one technical term you might like "Parallax." I cover it pretty simply by explaining how the phenomena applies to some shot scenarios. I wont be so brazen as to ask you to explain it.

I understand the game simply and offer some simple explanations for things that perplex some players because my subject is just more simple than a lot of folks make it.

Quite honestly you cant work your way through my book in a few days if youre tuning your aiming instrument, this is visual experience that takes awhile to work through. I promise no quick fixes to anything but I do offer a path to higher aiming ability if you work it.

Im not sure I take your overtures as you intend but I sort of feel Im running a gauntlet here and thats okay. You wont find me flipping on my stance.

This is no book the likes of Precision Pool with pretty pictures or the likes of Dr. Daves but its functional and gets my points across to someone who cares to spend some time with it.

This is me sharing what works with people who are searching for their natural aiming ability that are willing to work for it the same way a lot of good players have. I feel my stock in trade is that I know through the same process I have in the book that I see an almost instinctual level of understanding emanating except for the fact that I understand clearly what I do and am able to repeat it. Sure I miss a shot or two when posed a very difficult shot but dont we all? THe one thing that I can do is explain what I do and how I went about attaining what I have and that path is a short cut of sorts because if you follow the path I really dont see how you can come out on the other end without remarkable improvement. This will not be done in a day of reading it takes awhile of studying and application. Since I am able to beat people who have been playing for years and years with what I do and have written in mainly the last two years I think Im good with it. I do not expect my book to flip everyones switch.

My experiences with it are all good or it wouldnt be for sale.

I almost felt as if you were attacking but Im sure you wouldnt do that being youre a well known instructor and all representing the BCA. BCA certification is something good to have but a might expensive for me right now. With pool in the shape its in, in my neck of the woods I dont think a BCA instructor would do very well up here but I could be wrong.

My aim with the book is to keep people playing and encourage people to be pool people and grow with the game. I would hope that all pool organizations would do the same.

Aiming systems or methods do not have to be a like cte to be good but you do have to train your visual intelligence some and those keys are what I offer.

Its just easy to see what I do and it works without making pivots. I like easy it seems to work for me.

336robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
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Spidey,

Spidey,
You would do that for me? Send me an email and a telephone number. Im kinda hungry Ill call you in a few.

Robin
 
336Robin said:
Scott,
Youre an instructor with the BCA and obviously a knowledgeable person that knows the answer to the question you posed to me.

Yes I do know the answer to my question. I asked if you could answer it.

I understand the game simply and offer some simple explanations for things that perplex some players because my subject is just more simple than a lot of folks make it.

That's great, and the answer to my question is an important part of conveying that knowledge and those explainations.

I almost felt as if you were attacking but Im sure you wouldnt do that being youre a well known instructor and all representing the BCA. BCA certification is something good to have but a might expensive for me right now.

Not at all Robin. BCA Certification is what it is. There are many good instructors, many of which are not BCA.

With pool in the shape its in, in my neck of the woods I dont think a BCA instructor would do very well up here but I could be wrong.

Well, there are a few well-known BCA instructors in your state. If you are ever interested in BCA Certification, we can help you.

My aim with the book is to keep people playing and encourage people to be pool people and grow with the game. I would hope that all pool organizations would do the same.

That's a good goal, and I wish you luck. I would like to know if you know the answer to my question.

Its just easy to see what I do and it works without making pivots. I like easy it seems to work for me.

336robin
Click to expand...


Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
To Scott

Mr. Lee,
You keep asking this question that really means little to me as some sort of challenge. Grow up man. I really dont care. Does masochistic posturing mean that much to you? I wouldnt answer your question now regardless because you are treating me with no respect whatsoever. Typing in red-- geez. Do you know what respect is? Obviously not. I think a whole lot less of the BCA if they condone you acting like you do. You know I have really enjoyed making a lot of friends around this book thing but one thing I have learned is that you cant change people with preconcieved notions about you, your knowledge or when they think they know everything.
Hey lets just sing Kum By Yah and it will be alright!!! Good night brother! lol

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
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So, I'm guessing that's a "no"? It's a simple question that anyone who thinks they have the knowledge to help someone play better pool should know (for example, someone who wrote an instructional book). I simply wanted to see if you knew this. If you consider that a challenge to your writing skills, I'm sorry. BTW, the answer is no, it doesn't...until the CB strikes a rail. Many students, btw, do not know this information. I would think that would mean a lot to someone who was trying to learn where to aim on the CB, to get it to go where you want/expect/predict. Isn't that what your book is supposed to do? I did not attack you. I merely asked you a simple question...which you declined to answer. You probably had better develop a thicker skin, if you expect people to review your book.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

336Robin said:
Mr. Lee,
You keep asking this question that really means little to me as some sort of challenge. Grow up man. I really dont care. Does masochistic posturing mean that much to you? I wouldnt answer your question now regardless because you are treating me with no respect whatsoever. Typing in red-- geez. Do you know what respect is? Obviously not. I think a whole lot less of the BCA if they condone you acting like you do. You know I have really enjoyed making a lot of friends around this book thing but one thing I have learned is that you cant change people with preconcieved notions about you, your knowledge or when they think they know everything.
Hey lets just sing Kum By Yah and it will be alright!!! Good night brother! lol

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Robin...Just curious...Do you believe that pure sidespin influences the directional path of the CB, after contact with the OB, at any angle? Is that covered in your book?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott,
I don't know what you are trying to get from this question?? Come on give the guy a break, at least I read the book before I gave an opinion. Maybe you should read the book then ask questions.

Stan
 
Scott Lee said:
Robin...Just curious...Do you believe that pure sidespin influences the directional path of the CB, after contact with the OB, at any angle? Is that covered in your book?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott...Just curious...
  1. What is your definition of pure sidespin? Do you mean pure z-spin at OB contact (where the z-axis is perpendicular to the table) and absolutely no follow/draw or masse axis spin? Or do you mean beginning a shot by shooting off-center purely along the CB equator?
  2. Considering the rails prevent shooting with a level cue - and, therefore, introduce swerve - on most shots, what conditions do you believe are require for a player to achieve pure sidespin at OB contact?
  3. Do you believe achieving pure sidespin at contact is a common occurrence, or perhaps rarely happens during actual play?
  4. Do you think shots made on cloth with a significant nap could have a different answer to your question than those on napless cloth?
  5. Do you think the fact that CB-OB collisions are never perfectly elastic could enable pure sidespin to change the CB carom angle under any conditions?
  6. On a related note, do you believe that mixing sidespin with follow or draw can change carom angles from what they would be when shooting with follow or draw, whether pure or otherwise?
  7. How easy would you say it is to achieve a perfect stun without any follow or draw remaining on the CB at OB impact?

Robert
 
The above post reminded me of a Byrne shot that comes up that can only be made with a stick that is perfectly level where the rail is not in affect at all. Must be a nine footer. Those of us who have studied the game know the random shots that can make the difference to get the cash.
 
Reply to Scott

Mr. Lee,
I bow to your superior knowledge of the game, you are the man. So whats the name of your book? Sounds like it should be a book on physics. To wit I will further make a point that I cover within the pages of my book. Overcomplication is the enemy when it comes to aim its just not that complicated. As a bank pool player you learn how to control spin but that control is limited in the condition of your tip, the cloth,humidity, the rails and the application of the stroke, the quality of the stroke and sometimes a flourish you have to put on the ball to make seemingly impossible results to happen. All of those are real just like your question which you think is all important in position play. I didnt do my book solely on position play. I did my book with a theme in mind and that was aim. This is a world full of specialists and each has his niche. We are way ahead when we seek a specialist for his opinion because it is his feel for the principles and the realities that enables him to deliver the answers we need to be able to meet a ever changing marketplace. My skin is sufficiently thick but I was annoyed at your persistent yammering over something I didnt consider in my area. I do not know it all. I confess. I know how to aim the ball, yes I do and naturally. I believe I can teach that as a simple thing to learn to do if one takes the proper steps in my book giving them some time to let the material sink in during application.
I cannot help people with preconceptions or personality problems that blind them from the simple perceptions that allow them to simply. Put it in the hole. Put the slide rule up and have some fun. Its Friday everyone should be at their favorite place playing and enjoying the world of pool making shots and getting out. Thats where I am going to be. Come on by and show me the spinny thing you do, Id love to see it.

Regards, http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/

336Robin
Robin Kelly :thumbup: aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
336Robin said:
Spidey,
You would do that for me? Send me an email and a telephone number. Im kinda hungry Ill call you in a few.

Robin
Click to expand...

Smart decision, Robin.
Tell you what - if indeed Spidey reviews your book and his feedback is positive, I (and probably others here as well) will purchase your book asap.

You got a little angry at me previousely when I suggested that you could send Spidey or JoeyA your book for their review - but I was only trying to help, knowing how much their opinions are appreciated here on AZ...

There are not many folks these days that would buy books/DVDs etc without knowing more about them...In the past I was like this - just buying anything that was launched especially regarding aiming...but not anymore, not after reading The secret of aiming, or Aiming on the cutting edge...can honestly say that i did not learn anything new from these books...probably they were meant for beginners only...
 
Apology to Mristea

Mristea,
I think I owe you an apology but I have to make it quick I have an appt to run to. I apparently took what you said out of context and I apologize.

I have discovered some very simple things that to me are astonishing and I wanted to be able to help people. The simple fact is you have to work with them some and two days isnt adequate to cover my material. I have a few books being sent out for reviews that should provide me some insight into how well Ive done.

If anything I have done the material adequately enough for a player to be able to use. My book may not have the prettiness of some other books but I thought I was pretty clear about the material. I am really clear about you have to care enough about your game to spend some time with it. A two day or a 3 hour read isnt going to do much for you.

I have some theories that actually go beyond my area of understanding and I have to seek others more qualified to review those and I have. I just know they work well.

In my personal opinion the advice is not properly priced to the value to me its worth much, much more but since its something you have to work with a bit maybe it is.

This is my test market. I really enjoy meeting people, helping people and making a difference in pool. Its what I want to do and I want to do it, so I doubt that I will be turning this book over to Barnes and Noble or someone like that because Ive reviewed their terms and found them a bit hard to deal with.

I am sorry that youre experiences with other books hasnt been great I hope I can change that. I do know my methods work for me. I know once I found them I had to work with them developing a bit of visual intelligence around them but a reference point is a really powerful thing in pool and from my experience is the pathway to a level of playing where Instinct begins to take over because you see the shot and understand what to do and only need to be able to make simple allowances for squirt due to English.

Please accept my apologies since our last conversation its been quite a ride but I have a belief about that:

If youre going ride, first you have to get on board!!

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
 
Robert...There are two ways to miss a shot...mis-stroke or mis-align. My question was related to whether the author understood tangent line physics, which, imo, is imperative in showing someone how to correctly aim, to pocket the OB, and maneuver the CB to the next shot. I find, not infrequently, that students believe (mistakenly) that right and left english are responsible for the CB curving. They are not...at least until the CB strikes a rail. If sidespin is applied (on purpose or accidentally) with top or bottom, the CB will indeed curve off of the tangent line. On the horizontal axis alone, the CB will travel down the tangent line. This is effectively presented on our video, "Play Better Pool" Vol. 1. I would think this information would be important in any instruction on how to effectively aim...and I'm surprised that others find it not to be so.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


Robert Raiford said:
Scott...Just curious...
  1. What is your definition of pure sidespin? Do you mean pure z-spin at OB contact (where the z-axis is perpendicular to the table) and absolutely no follow/draw or masse axis spin? Or do you mean beginning a shot by shooting off-center purely along the CB equator?
  2. Considering the rails prevent shooting with a level cue - and, therefore, introduce swerve - on most shots, what conditions do you believe are require for a player to achieve pure sidespin at OB contact?
  3. Do you believe achieving pure sidespin at contact is a common occurrence, or perhaps rarely happens during actual play?
  4. Do you think shots made on cloth with a significant nap could have a different answer to your question than those on napless cloth?
  5. Do you think the fact that CB-OB collisions are never perfectly elastic could enable pure sidespin to change the CB carom angle under any conditions?
  6. On a related note, do you believe that mixing sidespin with follow or draw can change carom angles from what they would be when shooting with follow or draw, whether pure or otherwise?
  7. How easy would you say it is to achieve a perfect stun without any follow or draw remaining on the CB at OB impact?

Robert
Click to expand...
 
all is fine robin ;-)

336Robin said:
Mristea,
I think I owe you an apology but I have to make it quick I have an appt to run to. I apparently took what you said out of context and I apologize.

I have discovered some very simple things that to me are astonishing and I wanted to be able to help people. The simple fact is you have to work with them some and two days isnt adequate to cover my material. I have a few books being sent out for reviews that should provide me some insight into how well Ive done.

If anything I have done the material adequately enough for a player to be able to use. My book may not have the prettiness of some other books but I thought I was pretty clear about the material. I am really clear about you have to care enough about your game to spend some time with it. A two day or a 3 hour read isnt going to do much for you.

I have some theories that actually go beyond my area of understanding and I have to seek others more qualified to review those and I have. I just know they work well.

In my personal opinion the advice is not properly priced to the value to me its worth much, much more but since its something you have to work with a bit maybe it is.

This is my test market. I really enjoy meeting people, helping people and making a difference in pool. Its what I want to do and I want to do it, so I doubt that I will be turning this book over to Barnes and Noble or someone like that because Ive reviewed their terms and found them a bit hard to deal with.

I am sorry that youre experiences with other books hasnt been great I hope I can change that. I do know my methods work for me. I know once I found them I had to work with them developing a bit of visual intelligence around them but a reference point is a really powerful thing in pool and from my experience is the pathway to a level of playing where Instinct begins to take over because you see the shot and understand what to do and only need to be able to make simple allowances for squirt due to English.

Please accept my apologies since our last conversation its been quite a ride but I have a belief about that:

If youre going ride, first you have to get on board!!

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com

http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
Click to expand...


Apologies accepted Robin, all fine with me :thumbup2:
 
Scott Lee said:
My question was related to whether the author understood tangent line physics, which, imo, is imperative in showing someone how to correctly aim, to pocket the OB, and maneuver the CB to the next shot.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Scott, it seems that you don't fully understand the details of "tangent line physics" yourself. That would be fine, except you're being kind of a jerk about it in this thread for some unknown reason. Where's the more diplomatic Scott Lee I've grown to respect from threads past?
I find, not infrequently, that students believe (mistakenly) that right and left english are responsible for the CB curving. They are not...
Click to expand...
I think you're ignoring the massé effect caused by the elevation that is forced on most shots by the rail height. In a stun shot with max english where you're close to the OB, for example, the draw can wear off right before impact if you time it right (the definition of a stun shot), but it doesn't just leave you with sidespin - you also have lingering massé spin as well (draw and massé wear off independently of each other, and a short distance stun with max sidespin would mean the draw wore off first). That sidespin-induced massé will indeed cause the CB to curve away from the "tangent" line slightly even though there is no draw or follow left on the CB. Since sidespin and massé are intimately linked for most shots because of forced elevation, it's sometimes reasonable to say that the application of right and left english are at least partly responsible for the CB curving.
...at least until the CB strikes a rail.
Click to expand...
Wait, are you suggesting that sidespin - as opposed to follow, draw and/or massé - is what causes curving after rail contacts? Sidespin is what helps determine the initial direction away from a cushion, but it's follow/draw/massé that causes the path to curve away from it. Unless you're playing on cloth with a significant nap, that is. Then, even pure z-axis sidespin can cause curving during CB travel, whether before or after cushion contacts.
If sidespin is applied (on purpose or accidentally) with top or bottom, the CB will indeed curve off of the tangent line. On the horizontal axis alone, the CB will travel down the tangent line.
Click to expand...
I hope what you really mean here by "applied" is "present at OB impact". I think "application" is commonly understood to mean when the tip strikes the CB, and I've found that being loose with terminology like this can really confuse students. Of course, the moment the CB leaves the tip, the spin ratios start changing as the CB works against the cloth. It's entirely possible to apply draw and/or massé with english on the CB but time things so that they both wear off right before contact so the CB carom angle is spinning down a straight line...assuming a napless cloth lol.
I would think this information would be important in any instruction on how to effectively aim...and I'm surprised that others find it not to be so.
Click to expand...
I agree. Btw Scott, do you teach your students that the word 'tangent' is technically a misnomer since the stun line is rarely the full 90 degrees from the CB-OB line of centers that it implies? Since collision inefficiency always pushes it to be less than 90, and mass inequality can push it to be more or less than 90, a perfect 90 degree line is only really achieved when a lighter CB's weight coincidentally cancels the imperfect collision. This has definite practical application for longer distance stun caroms where a few degrees can cause a miss by 2-3 ball widths if you don't compensate your aim.

Robert
 
Robert Raiford said:
Unfortunately, Scott, it seems that you don't fully understand the details of "tangent line physics" yourself. That would be fine, except you're being kind of a jerk about it in this thread for some unknown reason. Where's the more diplomatic Scott Lee I've grown to respect from threads past?

I think you're ignoring the massé effect caused by the elevation that is forced on most shots by the rail height. In a stun shot with max english where you're close to the OB, for example, the draw can wear off right before impact if you time it right (the definition of a stun shot), but it doesn't just leave you with sidespin - you also have lingering massé spin as well (draw and massé wear off independently of each other, and a short distance stun with max sidespin would mean the draw wore off first). That sidespin-induced massé will indeed cause the CB to curve away from the "tangent" line slightly even though there is no draw or follow left on the CB. Since sidespin and massé are intimately linked for most shots because of forced elevation, it's sometimes reasonable to say that the application of right and left english are at least partly responsible for the CB curving.

Wait, are you suggesting that sidespin - as opposed to follow, draw and/or massé - is what causes curving after rail contacts? Sidespin is what helps determine the initial direction away from a cushion, but it's follow/draw/massé that causes the path to curve away from it. Unless you're playing on cloth with a significant nap, that is. Then, even pure z-axis sidespin can cause curving during CB travel, whether before or after cushion contacts.

I hope what you really mean here by "applied" is "present at OB impact". I think "application" is commonly understood to mean when the tip strikes the CB, and I've found that being loose with terminology like this can really confuse students. Of course, the moment the CB leaves the tip, the spin ratios start changing as the CB works against the cloth. It's entirely possible to apply draw and/or massé with english on the CB but time things so that they both wear off right before contact so the CB carom angle is spinning down a straight line...assuming a napless cloth lol.

I agree. Btw Scott, do you teach your students that the word 'tangent' is technically a misnomer since the stun line is rarely the full 90 degrees from the CB-OB line of centers that it implies? Since collision inefficiency always pushes it to be less than 90, and mass inequality can push it to be more or less than 90, a perfect 90 degree line is only really achieved when a lighter CB's weight coincidentally cancels the imperfect collision. This has definite practical application for longer distance stun caroms where a few degrees can cause a miss by 2-3 ball widths if you don't compensate your aim.

Robert
Click to expand...


lol.

The ball-buster becomes the ball-bustee.

Lou Figueroa
go get em, Robert
 
The Warped Move

In a reply to BHQ on another thread concerning how much shaft warp affected the game.

BHQ,
Its been a long time since I was a kid learning to play but your post took me back to the very first money games I ever played on barboxes as kids. I would stand around looking dumb which came natural and someone would eventually ask me to play for a dollar which back then would buy 3 packs of cigarettes "today around $5 a piece" and I would say sure. I would then go to the rack and already have a laid out the warpest stick in the rack that no one would use.

When I went to jam the quarter in the machine I would have the cue on the table and as I did so would roll the cue with my left hand and its obvious warp would flop,flop,flop across the felt. My challenger would almost be giddy at the prospects of my money and I shot terrible the first few racks but luckily won each time. Later as it became apparent that the mouse had caught the cat and things got a bit more serious I would just turn the warp so it was straight up and down and wear em out.

On a few occasions it got real nasty and I would go to the rack and get something straight, on a few of those occasions I would just go to the restroom and never come back!!!!

Thats my physics lesson for the day!!

336Robin :thumbup: http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/

aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
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