New Coin Table for a Bar

[realkingcobra]

You make it sound like some holy grail to own the table - which - after a year or 2 in a bar environment getting beat up will be worth much less that you think. After you've owned a bar for a few years let me know the real dollar profit from having one diamond table in a "bar" environment. We had Valleys with $0 investment or headaches and made a nice income from them. To each his own.

I could get into this further with you, but...I'll just say this. When making payments on a Diamond table, plus the upkeep thought the year, the cost of maintaining your own pool table is about the first 4 games of pool played at .75cents a day, after that, the rest of the games are all profit. I should know...I've owned and operated lots of pool tables in the past. And just for your information...82% of the bars on the west coast own their own pool tables...so if having a vendor supply the tables was the best way to go...then why don't more bars on the west coast lease their pool tables from vendors? I know these numbers...because I have a mailing list of over 4,000 bars with pool tables in them...the west coast.

Glen

PS. Unlike Valley tables, Diamonds can be refurbished right on the spot to look new again...every year if one wanted to...all it takes is a buffer and rubbing compound.

 

[Dartman]

I've owned and operated lots of pool tables in the past. And just for your information...82% of the bars on the west coast own their own pool tables

There are 87 AMOA-Member amusement operators throughout CA alone (unknown how many non-AMOA members) so to say 82% of left coast bars own their tables is BS.

For the uninitiated - amusement operators put coin-operated equipment in locations. 84% of the locations are bars/restaurants, the remainder being arcades, bowling alleys, movie theaters, etc. Coin-op equipment includes pool tables, dart boards, arcade games, golden-t's, jukeboxs, trivia games, 8-lines (poker machines), etc. The equipment is put on location free and the income (quarters) is split with the location owner. Service and maintainence is done by the amusement operator. The larger operators will have over 100 locations.

The AMOA (Amusement and Music Operators Association) is a national membership organization.

(excerpt from AMOA)
Why Operators Make Dollars & Sense for You

Operators are your partners in profit. They create excitement in your establishment through time tested and professional support. Operator maintained games earn more. So why not boost your bottom line with a partner in profit?

Need some good reasons to use the services of an operator? Here are ten!

Reason #1 - Save Money! - No Capital Outlay to You - Spiraling costs are making new, high-tech games run into tens of thousands of dollars. That kind of purchase is hard to justify in the face of ever-changing technology that may make your new machine a dinosaur tomorrow. Why not let an operator take 100% of the risk?

Reason #2 - Save More Money! - Servicing Equipment Service and Providing Parts and Supplies - When your equipment breaks down at 10 p.m. Friday night, you've got someone to call. An operator has both the expertise and parts and supplies in stock to get your machine back up and running fast. No on-going expenses and fewer headaches for you.

Reason #3 - Save Even More Money! - Providing Advanced Equipment Security - Thieves can rob you of your profits, but an experienced operator can help keep your money in your pocket where it belongs.

Reason #4 - Make Money! - Setting Proper Game Pricing and Difficulty Levels - Game pricing and difficulty settings are very important factors that directly affect game revenue and customer satisfaction. An experienced operator will be able to make these adjustments for you.

Reason #5 - Make More Money! - Getting Access to the Hot New Game First - Operators know about the latest profit making equipment and have a relationship with the distributors who can get you the newest machines fast. That means no hassles disposing of games and taking a loss in asset value when new competing equipment comes along.

Reason #6 - Make Even More Money! - Developing Customized Plans and Rotating Machines - Operators have the expertise to know what works and what doesn't in locations like yours. Rotating the games and updating your layout keeps the mix fresh and inviting. That helps attract new customers, and more importantly, keeps existing patrons in your location longer.

Reason #7 - Profit Through Promotion - Organize Tournaments and Contests - Operators organize tournaments, contests and traveling leagues to promote your location. These promotions will provide you with increased game revenue, customer base and therefore, bottom line sales.

Reason #8 - Profit Through Information - Provide Key Game Performance Data - Accountability and data analysis of game performance by computerized meter readings are an option a top operator can provide at no extra charge. A wide variety of reports can be tailored to suit each location.

Reason #9 - Profit Through Partnership - Keep You On Top of Ever-Changing Industry Trends and Legislation - Taxes and government regulations are an unavoidable part of business, but operators can help you keep up with the ever-changing state, local and national laws that apply to coin-operated games. Professional operators, through AMOA and other industry trade groups, also keep you informed about the latest industry trends that can impact your business.

Reason #10 - Time Equals Money! - Free Up Your Time - The experience and expertise of a professional operator frees you up to concentrate on your core business and who couldn't use a little more time?

Want to invest in your own equipment? Nothing wrong with that - it's your money however if you own a bar keep in mind that a lot of your patrons that want to play pool could care less about the brand of table as long as it works and plays ok.

 

[Dartman]

Of course I was also looking at Valley tables, but I am on the East Coast and every Valley vendor I found was on the West Coast sending shipping costs sky high.

Just reread your initial post Jack -
For Valley (Great 8) you might contact
Brady Distributing at 704-357-6284 or Betsons at 800-524-2343
Both have East Coast locations.

 

[cuejoey]

I could get into this further with you, but...I'll just say this. When making payments on a Diamond table, plus the upkeep thought the year, the cost of maintaining your own pool table is about the first 4 games of pool played at .75cents a day, after that, the rest of the games are all profit. I should know...I've owned and operated lots of pool tables in the past. And just for your information...82% of the bars on the west coast own their own pool tables...so if having a vendor supply the tables was the best way to go...then why don't more bars on the west coast lease their pool tables from vendors? I know these numbers...because I have a mailing list of over 4,000 bars with pool tables in them...the west coast.

Glen

PS. Unlike Valley tables, Diamonds can be refurbished right on the spot to look new again...every year if one wanted to...all it takes is a buffer and rubbing compound.

RealKingCobra : ref.i would be interested in a used 7 ft.bar table.do you think you will ever be going somewhat near Deadwood,South Dakota this year ? Thanks..

 

[realkingcobra]

RealKingCobra : ref.i would be interested in a used 7 ft.bar table.do you think you will ever be going somewhat near Deadwood,South Dakota this year ? Thanks..

Yes, I will...LOL, in one of my trips...LOL

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

Dartman...you must be a vendor. I'm not talking about owning all the games in a bar...just the pool tables, period. If owning pool tables in a bar was a bad investment for a bar owner...then why do vendors own them? In your own words...pool tables in bars in a couple of years are basically destroyed, BS! I know vendors that operate Valley pool tables over 20yrs old...and that's the point! How many vendors do you know of that are offering to vend Diamond pool tables in bars...because in your own words...vendors care so much about the bar owners having the best equipment on hand to bring in the best investment...right?, so why NOT Diamonds? I'll tell you why not, because most vendors are toooo cheap to buy them, that's why! AND, pool tables are NOT like video games, or jute boxes, or anything like it, they'll bring in the money for the next 20 years, and still be going strong, to make my point...vendors rotate games, jute boxes on a regular basis...but NOT pool tables...how come? Don't even try talking BS with me when it comes to who owns pool tables and who don't...so keep the video games out of the equation and keep it pool tables when counting who owns them and who don't. As far as vendors go...as you say..."they're looking out for the bar owners best intrest"...then why...if a bar owner wants to buy their OWN pool tables....do vendors threaten to remove ALL their equipment if they do so?

Glen

PS. I just delivered 5 Diamond 7ft Smart Tables to a bar in Oklahoma City, OK. and they also own 2 pool halls and 3 other bars...and guess what?...They OWN ALL their pool tables...in ALL of them! But, no...they don't own the video games or jute boxes...because the vendors have a lockup with that equipment...and for your information...I wouldn't own anything in a bar except the pool tables...because they cost almost nothing to maintain them.

End of subject...we're off track on this thread.

 

[Dartman]

I'm not a vendor but I know many. Never said bar tables get destroyed - what I said was they will be worth less then you think. Needless to say a dialogue with you is worthless because you eat and sleep Diamond and you quote facts and figures without verifiable backup. The majority of operators use Valley which is good equipment at a good price and has been around a lot longer then diamonds' bar table.
Some operators may have diamonds, I don't know nor care but just because You think they're the best is your opinion. I know of a room that had several diamond bar boxs and they were taken out because nobody liked or wanted to play on them.

 

[realkingcobra]

I'm not a vendor but I know many. Never said bar tables get destroyed - what I said was they will be worth less then you think. Needless to say a dialogue with you is worthless because you eat and sleep Diamond and you quote facts and figures without verifiable backup. The majority of operators use Valley which is good equipment at a good price and has been around a lot longer then diamonds' bar table.
Some operators may have diamonds, I don't know nor care but just because You think they're the best is your opinion. I know of a room that had several diamond bar boxs and they were taken out because nobody liked or wanted to play on them.

LMAO...you miss the point of a bar table friend...the worth of a bar table is not in the reselling of it...it's in the income it generates while in use. That's called the "ROI" = return on investment. No where can a bar owner invest their money and get the kind of return on their investment like they can by owning their own pool table(s). That's why vendors own them, because they're a hell of a good investment...Diamond or not. If vendors can turn a profit with only 50% of the income from a pool table...just imagine what kind of return a bar owner gets with 100% of the generated income...from that same pool table, whether it's a Valley, Dynamo, Global...or a Diamond...does it really matter?

"I know of a room that had several diamond bar boxs and they were taken out because nobody liked or wanted to play on them.[/QUOTE]

BS...name the room!

Glen

 

[Dartman]

LMAO...you miss the point of a bar table friend...the worth of a bar table is not in the reselling of it...it's in the income it generates while in use. That's called the "ROI" = return on investment.
"I know of a room that had several diamond bar boxs and they were taken out because nobody liked or wanted to play on them - BS...name the room!
Glen

In some circumstances having a table or tables provided by an operator works well. It's not rocket science. You make more "in the long run" if you own the table once you recoup your investment. There is no investment or maintainence costs with operator-provided equipment. In our bar we put more emphasis on dollar revenue from drinks and food rather then quarter revenue from the pool tables and other operator supplied equip.
And the pool room is Leisure Time in Moline, IL. Players preferred Valleys because that's what is used in the state and other tournys.

 

[Eddie4269]

Simonis for a bar table??? I wouldn't.

Go with Championship Tour Edition. Plays almost as good, looks great, and lasts longer than Simonis. Oh, and at about 2/3 the cost.

 

[Dartman]

Or get a slice of Velocity Pro at ½ the cost.

 

[jack146]

Yes, Diamond now makes an 8' coin-op. Diamond also recieves 100's of emails so Brian may not have gotten to yours yet...

Brian answered me about 2 days after I posted that. As much as I would prefer the Diamond, the owner says he doesn't want to go for that kind of money.

You are 100% right about buying your table instead of seeing 50% of the money walking out the door to a vendor. No matter how you look at it, if you took 50% of the money made, and payed it out to support the table for a year, you're still the one counting your OWN money

Glen

Exactly, if it wouldn't be worth the money for me to maintain the table, how could it be possible for the vendor to do so at a profit? Even if it cost me a full $2,000 a year in upkeep, I am still $1,500 ahead of the game.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, being new here, I didn't realize I had to move to new pages to see these replies.

 

[jack146]

If you go with Simonis then get 860 cloth.

Championship 3030 Tour Edition would also be a good choice. At 24 oz, it's a heavier cloth than 860, so it wears a bit longer and the speed is about the same.

Gorina Granito Basalt is also a nice fast cloth. It is a 28oz cloth and it wears well.

Bottom line is all of the above are quite good. IMO it's a matter of which is priced better.

Fats

Thank you for the advice, I have made note of the cloths you recommended.

 

[jack146]

If you plan to post a security guard at the table to prevent people from...

This is a NEW table for the bar, it is not the first table in the bar, it is a replacement for a used table that was bought 4 years ago. The owner is fully aware of what to expect and just how much 1/2 of the proceeds amount to.

 

[jack146]

I recently bought a table from Brian and I found the best way to reach him is to call. I usually had to leave a message. He IS spread really thin. We did hook up and I received my table as agreed.

Thank you, but the owner of the bar has ruled out the cost of the Diamond tables. Brian did get back to me and seems a pretty decent guy.

 

[jack146]

Reason #1 - Reason #10

You answered all these questions in an earlier note when you said:

To each his own.

That pretty much says it all.<g>

 

[jack146]

Just reread your initial post Jack -
For Valley (Great 8) you might contact
Brady Distributing at 704-357-6284 or Betsons at 800-524-2343
Both have East Coast locations.

Thank you, I will contact both.

 

[jack146]

Simonis for a bar table??? I wouldn't.

Go with Championship Tour Edition. Plays almost as good, looks great, and lasts longer than Simonis. Oh, and at about 2/3 the cost.

Thank you, , duly noted, Secaucus Fats also recommended that very cloth.

 

[mechanic/player]

Thank you, , duly noted, Secaucus Fats also recommended that very cloth.

So do I, 30/30 is easier to work with, so its gonna look better and last longer.

 

[realkingcobra]

Thank you, but the owner of the bar has ruled out the cost of the Diamond tables. Brian did get back to me and seems a pretty decent guy.

If you'd like, I can lease finance the table for about $150.00 a month with a $1.00 buyout at the end of the lease. Lease financing is 100% tax deductible, and eliminates the need for depreciation. Most bars I deal with would rather lease finance as opposed to investing the cash to buy a table, because that same amount of cash invested in alcohol turns about a 400% return in a whole lot less time. The bottom line of lease financing is that you still have the keys to the tables in your pocket, and you're still the one counting the money, and you're going to own the table in the end.

Glen