New cue Al Baytista 8 pointer

classiccues said:
The cue in this thread is every bit as much a SugarTree as the scallopped one. However NO ONE calls it out. Why do I think that's the case?
Click to expand...

The only person who called Al out is Eric. If he feels that his style has been infringed upon, only he can call it. Everyone else is part of the public discussion, on one side or the other. Discussions are healthy and I think Al learned something. I think Eric learned something. Heck, I learned something. No one flamed out or made personal attacks. I think this was an honest exchange.

I learned that there is no definition of CDT that applies across the board. Each individual sets his/her own boundaries. Its all grey/gray. I wouldn't have made this cue. Al did. Eric called him out. Lesson learned and new boundaries set. Seems cut and dried to me. Can we move on?

classiccues said:
Because those who claim to know, wouldn't know Erics cue from a Meucci.
Click to expand...

I may not know my ass from a hole in the ground some days but I'll take this action any day of the week. :p
 
ratcues said:
The only person who called Al out is Eric. If he feels that his style has been infringed upon, only he can call it. Everyone else is part of the public discussion, on one side or the other. Discussions are healthy and I think Al learned something. I think Eric learned something. Heck, I learned something. No one flamed out or made personal attacks. I think this was an honest exchange.

I learned that there is no definition of CDT that applies across the board. Each individual sets his/her own boundaries. Its all grey/gray. I wouldn't have made this cue. Al did. Eric called him out. Lesson learned and new boundaries set. Seems cut and dried to me. Can we move on?

I may not know my ass from a hole in the ground some days but I'll take this action any day of the week. :p
Click to expand...

Eric might have called him out, but the huggers had their say. Lets leave it at that...

If you stole a quarter from me, what would you be? Would you be the same thing of you stole 1 dollar? There is no grey. Grey areas are for excuses.

JV
 
classiccues said:
There is no grey. Grey areas are for excuses.

JV
Click to expand...

No grey. You steal my car radio and sell it to some other guy. That guy is just as guilty as you.

Then I suggest you pull every tribute cue from your site because you too are stealing. No grey.


<~~it never ends, does it?
 
ratcues said:
No grey. You steal my car radio and sell it to some other guy. That guy is just as guilty as you.

Then I suggest you pull every tribute cue from your site because you too are stealing. No grey.


<~~it never ends, does it?
Click to expand...

No, I have no issues with it as I said before. Unless you missed the 100x I said that.

JV
 
I would change a few of the words and say it is my own, but....

8-ball Rat said:
Agreed. Seems to me, after reading FAR too many pages in this thread, that was the intent. Also seems to me that the OP was genuinely happy with his purchase, and wanted to share photos of what he got...but there appeared to be a small "dig" in there towards Eric.

I can say this about the whole "design theft" topic - I have had several cuemakers make cues that were...um..."tributes" to a particular cue I could not afford to buy from the big dog. Upon posting pictures and intel of those cues, I was given all kinds of compliments and "congrats" messages about them. Not once did anyone ever dog me out for buying a "knock-off" cue. I hate to say it...but sometimes it seems as though peoples' tolerance of the practice is conditional...depending on who the "tribute" cuemaker might be, or who the buyer is/was.

My opinion...God knows...isn't right, wrong, or indifferent to most folks. That said - IMO - a guy/gal has the right to buy the cue they want to buy, when they want to buy it, for whatever reasons they may have to do so.

In a perfect world...every cuemaker would get the "okay" from the person who came up with the original design...but we all know that won't happen. The fact that there are so many tributes/copies/knock-offs out there shows that there's a market for them. As long as people are willing to buy one, the practice will continue.

I'll go back to my room and color now.....
Click to expand...

You practically took the words right out of my mouth, and since I do not feel like taking the time to write a tribute to your statement (or arguing whether my thought came before your statement and if I should be upset that you wrote what I was thinking), I will just QUOTE you, and say - TAP, TAP, TAP!!!

Just remember, you get what you pay for, and if that makes you happy, then GREAT!!!

It all comes down to $$$ and disposable income. Wish I had more money, and wish I knew if I was on Eric's list to have a cue made for me sometime in the next decade. In the meantime, I will just read the soaps here on AZB, and save my money for my next cue purchase.

Michael
 
classiccues said:
MY absolute last post to you holier than thou internet detectives.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=225549

The cue in this thread is every bit as much a SugarTree as the scallopped one. However NO ONE calls it out. Why do I think that's the case? Because those who claim to know, wouldn't know Erics cue from a Meucci.

This cue has the same point structure and splice in the area over the wrap. The its got the SAME butt cap treatment with the black disc under the auxilliary wood. So you know where the grey area is, it's between your ears because you're the last people who should be complaining about copying, when you don't even recognize the SIMPLEST places a copy has occured. All you have to do is check out Jamies site and Erics and see this is no coincidence.

CDT licenses REVOLKED.

If Al could cut a micro ring, there is no doubt he would have.

But what shocks me are the responses that "I would know Erics cue from across the room". Yeah ok and you miss this? If I ever make cues, please don't nuthug me.

JV
Click to expand...

The overall cue in the link you posted didn't remind me of a sugartree at all. The wood quality and the ringwork alone make it stand far apart in my eyes. The splice style is very similar, but many others have done that style at one point or another. Eric may do it more often than most, but it's common.

The cue in this thread is obviously a ripoff. The fact that it has several design elements that are part of Eric's current identity as a current cuemaker means it is crossing a line. It's a moral line. I can tell, looking at that cue, that it was wrong to make it. It has up/down scallops in the handle, up/down points above and below the scallops, very highly figured wood, a similar splice, and black crowning buttcap. It seems like he attempted micro rings, but failed. I knew this wasn't a sugartree by the rings, but everything else screams ripoff.

Since you apparently openly support this kind of practice, I will never do business with you. In fact, I'm just going to add you to my ignore list. I don't want to accidentally read something of yours in the future that might give me the impression you're a decent person.

And if you think most of "us" can't tell a ST from a Meucci, you're even more detached from reality than I thought.

-Zack, not a ST nuthugger, but he's got my respect.
 
Hierovision said:
The overall cue in the link you posted didn't remind me of a sugartree at all. The wood quality and the ringwork alone make it stand far apart in my eyes. The splice style is very similar, but many others have done that style at one point or another. Eric may do it more often than most, but it's common.

The cue in this thread is obviously a ripoff. The fact that it has several design elements that are part of Eric's current identity as a current cuemaker means it is crossing a line. It's a moral line. I can tell, looking at that cue, that it was wrong to make it. It has up/down scallops in the handle, up/down points above and below the scallops, very highly figured wood, a similar splice, and black crowning buttcap. It seems like he attempted micro rings, but failed. I knew this wasn't a sugartree by the rings, but everything else screams ripoff.

Since you apparently openly support this kind of practice, I will never do business with you. In fact, I'm just going to add you to my ignore list. I don't want to accidentally read something of yours in the future that might give me the impression you're a decent person.

And if you think most of "us" can't tell a ST from a Meucci, you're even more detached from reality than I thought.

-Zack, not a ST nuthugger, but he's got my respect.
Click to expand...

Its got the same rings as the other cue. Sorry your screen name should say Novision. Its obviously an attempt at another of Erics designs.

JV
 
sengkun108 said:
Sir JV from Classiccue


Would you like to read post number 128 from me...thanks
Click to expand...

I read it. One issue is that in English, words have very specific meanings. Copy, means duplicate. IMHO they are all tribute cues, whether the cuemaker is dead or alive. None are copies, they all however are emulations. It might sound like semantics and thats ok.

Now, I initially thought the apology was sincere, however I have my doubts about that because there is another cue posted here, I was sent another via e-mail, and now I saw one in the for sale section.

A knockoff immediately infers a copy for lesser value. I agree. However none of that has anything to do with how I feel personally. I don't bash tributes on any level, because I sell cues that would fit that bill. I wouldn't bash them if I built cues and I ended up making tributes. Therefore I do not like when people do that. These are issues that are totally separate from what is a tribute, what is a copy and what is a knock off.
I do like the word knock off better than copy because it's inference is not quality restricted. A copy means perfect, a knockoff can be, and usually is, quality lacking, but close.
I like it.. and it suits the situation.

JV
 
I read it. One issue is that in English, words have very specific meanings. Copy, means duplicate. IMHO they are all tribute cues, whether the cuemaker is dead or alive. None are copies, they all however are emulations. It might sound like semantics and thats ok.

Now, I initially thought the apology was sincere, however I have my doubts about that because there is another cue posted here, I was sent another via e-mail, and now I saw one in the for sale section.

A knockoff immediately infers a copy for lesser value. I agree. However none of that has anything to do with how I feel personally. I don't bash tributes on any level, because I sell cues that would fit that bill. I wouldn't bash them if I built cues and I ended up making tributes. Therefore I do not like when people do that. These are issues that are totally separate from what is a tribute, what is a copy and what is a knock off.
I do like the word knock off better than copy because it's inference is not quality restricted. A copy means perfect, a knockoff can be, and usually is, quality lacking, but close.
I like it.. and it suits the situation.

JV
Click to expand...



it's another point of view to me.. and i think i can accept it. I may not agree with it, but i can understand your view. Thanks
 
Nice thread

We have not even touched the mass produced China copies of (insert name of high cue maker here) :D

God forbids they make Kamui chalk copies:angry:
 
Worminator said:
In other words... go ahead and steal other makers designs... it's fine. So someone doesn't want to pay the prices of the original designer and maker's product... go find someone who will rip off the design and make it cheaper.. it's OK. There is nothing wrong with that.

Unbelievable...
Click to expand...
If you can show me an exact cue to the one Al made then, there would be an issue,besides that its an open market.And Yes it is okay to find a cuemaker who will charge less to have a certain style or design infused in the cue.Not all have the funds for certain cuemakers so they look around for a guy like Al who makes a great cue for less.A great cue is a great cue no matter who's name is on the bottom of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top