New cue Al Baytista 8 pointer

sugarness

Yeap a whole 6 mos on getting a cue with my input not one already done. As I have come to the conclusion that i will have to buy one already done. My goal was to have one started i didnt care if it took a year to build. And I have prolly contacted everyone who owns one on here trying to find one close to what i would have had one built. I
 
Servicky said:
Yeap a whole 6 mos on getting a cue with my input not one already done. As I have come to the conclusion that i will have to buy one already done. My goal was to have one started i didnt care if it took a year to build. And I have prolly contacted everyone who owns one on here trying to find one close to what i would have had one built. I
Click to expand...

Eric's list is/was miles long. My point was six months is not a long time when dealing with a top tier cuemaker. And yes, I consider Eric a top tier cuemaker. trying getting a cue from other top makers. Six months is a breeze.

If you and Jamie can't come to an agreement OR you want another. I will have an 8 pointer without scallops for sale as soon as I get it back from Eric.


Chris
 
Tribute = Flattery?

Maybe Al created this cue as a tribute to Eric? Seems like I see almost exact copies of other famous cues being copied and just called tributes.

I have seen so many "Gina Tributes", "Gus Tributes", etc all over the place.

The Sugartree TAR Cue comes to mind. Perhaps if Al said "Sugartree Tribute" or something, it would be ok???

Anyway, I love Eric's cues and I didn't even equate Al's cue as an Eric design. I'm only a player that appreciates cues anyway.

I love cues

--Jeff
 
Last edited:
WOW, I'm with Eric, that really sucks for a builder to make cheap copies like that.

Chuck
 
  • Like
Reactions: CMD
Masirib5 said:
Maybe Al created this cue as a tribute to Eric? Seems like I see almost exact copies of other famous cues being copied and just called tributes.

I have seen so many "Gina Tributes", "Gus Tributes", etc all over the place.

The Sugartree TAR Cue comes to mind. Perhaps if Al said "Sugartree Tribute" or something, it would be ok???

Anyway, I love Eric's cues and I didn't even equate Al's cue as an Eric design. I'm only a player that appreciates cues anyway.

I love cues

--Jeff
Click to expand...

IMO, tributes are cues built in the style of DEAD cue makers that inspire the current builder, and the respect is given by naming the cue as such. If the builder is alive & currently utilizing the specific design, it's not a tribute but instead design theft. The only goal imaginable behind building a copy is to cash in the popularity of the original design. That's not a tribute.

Al could have contacted me at any time & asked me how I felt about it BEFORE he spent any time & money in doing it. That never happened. On the same note, there's no possible way he could have built that cue without knowing it was an obvious design knock-off that could & likely would cause trouble. Fact is, he didn't care. I wouldn't have done it to him, for any amount of money. He did it to me for pennies on the dollar. Cheap. Point made.
 
Btw

Eric, I really wish I could afford one of the TAR Sugartree Harvey Martin style cues. It looks fantastic and I'm sure it plays so nice!!!

Nice job for sure (as with all your cues).

--Jeff
 
qbilder said:
Interesting design, Al. Very creative & original I must say. May I reccomend a ring design to go with that 8-point scalloped handle design next time you want to copy? :shakehead:

I have always had respect for my fellow builders. My respect for them combined with my own self worth & integrity steer me away from using their trademark signature designs. The Filipino builders have always had a bad reputation for shameless design theft, but I thought it was an unfair stereotype because builders like you were creative & skilled. I guess I was wrong. You aren't any better or any different than what folks commonly think of Filipino builders. You knew damned well what you were doing when building that cue. I hope you made a killing on it because it cost you any respect & support you ever had or would have had from me. But then I guess that wouldn't matter to you. If you had any respect for our craft or others who share this craft, you'd have never built this cue, anyway.

Nobody else would say it. Everybody's afraid of flame wars & confrontation. You straight up stole my signature design element & cashed in on it. That cue is a cheap knockoff POS. And you are the cheap knockoff builder who created it. And I will always refer to you as such from now on.
Click to expand...



Hello Eric, As you have said also, i do have a lot of respect to my fellow builders, specially to you and your works. And i know my limitations as a cuemaker, I have no intentions to copy or to steal your design element, in fact i admire your works and gives inspiration to all cuemakers who are still in the progress of exploring new techniques and designs, my fault here is that when i try to explore some other things or design on cues, and that was the used of scallop on the handle, because i know when there is no scallop on that cue, i'm pretty sure it will not came to this situation, well i see some other cuemakers also that was making scallop designs, and i heard no echo on it. I dont want to start any flame wars here or any debate, cause i do have rules in my life to follow, If i offended you Eric, please accept my sincere apology and fell sorry for that. you are a well respected cuemaker because of your reputation and i dont want to ruin mine just because on that scallop design. Its clear to me, that scallop is under your name and has limit to used. And if that cue really bothers you, i am willing to replace that and put that cue on the bandsaw.


I know everyone thinks when it comes to Filipino cues or cuemakers, the doubt and underestimate is always there, well i guess mentality lives forever, but dont count them all.

Sorry for all the inconvenience.

more powers to all,
Al
 
Last edited:
Al_Bautista_Cue said:
Hello Eric, As you have said also, i do have a lot of respect to my fellow builders, specially to you and your works. And i know my limitations as a cuemaker, I have no intentions to copy or to steal your design element, in fact i admire your works and gives inspiration to all cuemakers who are still in the progress of exploring new techniques and designs, my fault here is that when i try to explore some other things or design on cues, and that was the used of scallop on the handle, because i know when there is no scallop on that cue, i'm pretty sure it will not came to this situation, well i see some other cuemakers also that was making scallop designs, and i heard no echo on it. I dont want to start any flame wars here or any debate, cause i do have rules in my life to follow, If i offended you Eric, please accept my sincere apology and fell sorry for that. you are a well respected cuemaker because of your reputation and i dont want to ruin mine just because on that scallop design. Its clear to me, that scallop is under your name and has limit to used. And if that cue really bothers you, i am willing to replace that and put that cue on the bandsaw.


I know everyone thinks when it comes to Filipino cues or cuemakers, the doubt and underestimate is always there, well i guess mentality lives forever, but dont count them all.

Sorry for all the inconvenience.

more powers to all,
Al
Click to expand...

If it's as common a design as you say, then show me pictures of all these cues you see with it. Tell me who the cue makers are that do it. One time an American builder did something similar & he told me in person that it was just to see how I did it because he was curious. That's the only time. And it was different enough that it looked nothing like mine. Aside from that, Samsara is the only thing even remotely similar & it's completely different. What you did is a blatant attempt of a copy as possible. A little refining & you could have it exact. And i'm sorry to seem like i'm rejecting your apology but your purpose for giving it is suspect. You apologized because you don't want to ruin your own reputation. That's like a criminal telling the police he's sorry for committing a crime because he doesn't want to go to jail. You even justify it for yourself by saying other people do it. You openly copied a design, took full credit for the creativity, and was perfectly fine about it until it caused a problem that think might cost you some buyers. If i'm wrong about that & you offer a sincere apology then I accept. But if you are only apologizing because you want to save face then don't bother.
 
Al_Bautista_Cue said:
Hello Eric, As you have said also, i do have a lot of respect to my fellow builders, specially to you and your works. And i know my limitations as a cuemaker, I have no intentions to copy or to steal your design element, in fact i admire your works and gives inspiration to all cuemakers who are still in the progress of exploring new techniques and designs, my fault here is that when i try to explore some other things or design on cues, and that was the used of scallop on the handle, because i know when there is no scallop on that cue, i'm pretty sure it will not came to this situation, well i see some other cuemakers also that was making scallop designs, and i heard no echo on it. I dont want to start any flame wars here or any debate, cause i do have rules in my life to follow, If i offended you Eric, please accept my sincere apology and fell sorry for that. you are a well respected cuemaker because of your reputation and i dont want to ruin mine just because on that scallop design. Its clear to me, that scallop is under your name and has limit to used. And if that cue really bothers you, i am willing to replace that and put that cue on the bandsaw.


I know everyone thinks when it comes to Filipino cues or cuemakers, the doubt and underestimate is always there, well i guess mentality lives forever, but dont count them all.

Sorry for all the inconvenience.

more powers to all,
Al
Click to expand...
Keep building what you want Al.This guy should get a patent then.I see nothing wrong with designs of similarity's.I see a hundreds of cuemakers making 6 point cues or 4 point cues.Should we go back in time and dig up the first 8 point cue ever made and say every other cuemakers 8 pointer is a cheap knock off?You make beautiful cues and in my opinion your prices are very fair in times of need and I think thats the biggest issue that nobody is saying.You charge alot less for alot more and to alot of American cuemakers that rains on there profit parade.You don't even need to respond to there insults,just let your cues do the talking:)Goodluck
 
Agreed...I was disgusted by some of the comments made, and will never think the same about said maker and his cues...Narcissism at it's best. Your attack was vicious, and in my eyes...in very poor taste...
Thanks for showing your true colors Eric...
Clint
 
scsuxci said:
Keep building what you want Al.This guy should get a patent then.I see nothing wrong with designs of similarity's.I see a hundreds of cuemakers making 6 point cues or 4 point cues.Should we go back in time and dig up the first 8 point cue ever made and say every other cuemakers 8 pointer is a cheap knock off?You make beautiful cues and in my opinion your prices are very fair in times of need and I think thats the biggest issue that nobody is saying.You charge alot less for alot more and to alot of American cuemakers that rains on there profit parade.You don't even need to respond to there insults,just let your cues do the talking:)Goodluck
Click to expand...


In other words... go ahead and steal other makers designs... it's fine. So someone doesn't want to pay the prices of the original designer and maker's product... go find someone who will rip off the design and make it cheaper.. it's OK. There is nothing wrong with that.

Unbelievable...
 
Jamie, with all due respect...Do you really think this compares to the Joel Davidas/Joe Calluca cue?...or the Mottey/Gina cue?...
So he used scallops?
 
qbilder said:
If it's as common a design as you say, then show me pictures of all these cues you see with it. Tell me who the cue makers are that do it. One time an American builder did something similar & he told me in person that it was just to see how I did it because he was curious. That's the only time. And it was different enough that it looked nothing like mine. Aside from that, Samsara is the only thing even remotely similar & it's completely different. What you did is a blatant attempt of a copy as possible. A little refining & you could have it exact. And i'm sorry to seem like i'm rejecting your apology but your purpose for giving it is suspect. You apologized because you don't want to ruin your own reputation. That's like a criminal telling the police he's sorry for committing a crime because he doesn't want to go to jail. You even justify it for yourself by saying other people do it. You openly copied a design, took full credit for the creativity, and was perfectly fine about it until it caused a problem that think might cost you some buyers. If i'm wrong about that & you offer a sincere apology then I accept. But if you are only apologizing because you want to save face then don't bother.
Click to expand...

Hello Eric, again i dont want to make it long, writing other names or posting pictures will make this situation never end. And i'm not that kind of person that likes to point. When i did that cue all that was in my mind is i just want to fulfill my curiosity on doing that kind of design, and because of that cue i learn a lot, you said it was an attempt to copy, if my intention is to copy, i will definitely do the refining of it, make more like that design and then sell it but im not on my mind to do that, as i have a lot of respect to other works specially on you, i just love to learn and explore new ideas, and to make it all clear, again i'm sorry if i by pass you and if i step on the wrong lines when i did that design, i am an easy man and accept if i'm wrong, and thanks again because i learn again, as for it might cost me some buyers? everyone know the answer of it, but one thing is for sure, your 600 emails will be going up. My respect to you is still the same and it will not changed, Have a great weekend and my last post to this thread..Learn a lot of lesson here when it comes to Scallops.

God Bless to all,
Al
 
MidLifeCrisis said:
Jamie, with all due respect...Do you really think this compares to the Joel Davidas/Joe Calluca cue?...or the Mottey/Gina cue?...
So he used scallops?
Click to expand...

IMO it was a direct attempt to make a Sugatree look-alike at a reduced cost... I don't know how anyone could look at that cue and not immediately think "Sugartree".

There are certain design elements that are accepted as industry standards... 4 point 4 veneer cues, Hoppe rings, notched diamonds, dots, etc. But once a cuemaker designs an element to his cues that becomes his signature (i.e., Erics scallops, Ron Haley's rings, Ernie's Rasputin design, etc) then that design should not be replicated IMO. Of course there are gray areas, but overall, I believe most can recognize when the line has been crossed.
 
This will be my last post on this cue...

The kicker for me, beyond the scallops, was the design of the butt cap in conjunction with the overall design of the rest of the cue. Putting the black phenolic at the bottom of a butt cap is just another attempt to make this cue look like as much like a Sugatree as possible.

Mr Bautista's last response, and lack of apology for stealing the design, shows there is no remorse. There is no way this cue was not designed with the intent of making it look like one of Eric's cues.

attachment.php


ST%20SBE%202.jpg
 
MidLifeCrisis said:
Agreed...I was disgusted by some of the comments made, and will never think the same about said maker and his cues...Narcissism at it's best. Your attack was vicious, and in my eyes...in very poor taste...
Thanks for showing your true colors Eric...
Clint
Click to expand...

True colors? Have I ever shown otherwise or misled you into believing i'm somebody that i'm not? No. The guy copied my signature design & it pisses me off. I can't stop him or anybody else from doing that stuff. But I sure don't have to bend over & take it, either. This stuff happens because it's allowed, tolerated. Not this time. Am I an asshole? You betcha. Do I pretend not to be? Nope. I'm openly an asshole. Am I narcissistic? Not a bit. I'm actually very well grounded, not overly humble and not overly proud. What was vicious & poor taste was stealing the design in the first place, then showing it off like it's something to be proud of. Would I be the better man by keeping quiet & taking a higher road? No. That's what cowards do & they say that stuff to justify not standing up for themselves. And that only empowers the unoriginality even more, then shows others they can get by with it too. Before long it becomes ok and standard, common design to be used by anybody.

There's not much else to say about it. If i'm the bad guy for calling out the offense in the first place, then so be it. I'm a bad guy. Don't buy my cues. In fact, just steer clear of any honest & hard working cuemakers that strive for better. Best thing you could do is remove your bias from the situation & look at it for what it is, then you may have a cleared idea. I'd bet if you hadn't just bought a cue from him but instead bought one from me, you'd be singing a different tune. Especially if you owned the cue that he copied. So many times people speak from their biased hearts without first absorbing the truth of the situation. You like the guy, don't know me, and just bought a cue from him. Are you too afraid to open your eyes & see who your cuemaker really is? And you want to talk to me about true colors? Get your feet on level ground without your bias & then tell me how you feel.
 
soo hows thos seahawks

Sorry for starting this thread... I didn't see this coming....I should have not bought this cue if it was going to put me in the middle of all this shit.....It was a spontaneous purchase and now have buyers remorse. The only lessons in life you learn are the ones you pay for. Once again everyone my apology's too everyone involved.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top