New Diamonds - Dissenting Opinion?

Glen

I bought a table like 1 1/2 years ago. I believe I have the old rails on. What would it cost to put the new rails on, and is it something I can do myself? I dont believe I have the money to do it now. but I will definitally be doing it soon!

thanks
scott
 
I absolutely hated how every Diamond table I ever played on in the last 15 years reacted when a ball hit the rail. (Pre-Rail modifications). Keep that in mind so that you know I am biased as you read my post.

I was able to play on a 9' ProAM Diamond at Conyers, GA about a month ago. This table was a few years old, but Mark Gregory modified the rails using RKC's technique, so that they are the same as the "Blue Label" tables. The cloth was well worn when I played on it, probably 4 or 5 months old. Simonis 860. The cushions were the Artemis, not the other Diamond cushions, because they had the clearly visible rounded nose on them.

I specifically went to this room to try out the rails. I shot a lot of 2, 3, and 4 rail position shots, along with 1, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks. Then I played one hole with a guy for maybe 3 hours.

The rails definitely did NOT play like a GC. Some shots did, and others did not. I thought the cueball still came off the rail faster than a GC, but it was slower than the prior Diamond design. At the tail end of a 3 or 4 rail position shot, the cueball just seemed strange to me. Again, my reference is a GC.

I will say I liked the rails a lot better than the previous Diamond rails I played on over the years.

At this point, the best description I can give is that the rails played more like a 3 cushion table than a GC pool table. Whether that is good or not I don't know. I really need more time on the table to decide that for myself.

My conclusion is I'm not decided if I like the rails or not. I need more time on the table (I haven't' been back there yet). I'm holding off on my opinion until I do that.
 
sr 9ball said:
Glen

I bought a table like 1 1/2 years ago. I believe I have the old rails on. What would it cost to put the new rails on, and is it something I can do myself? I dont believe I have the money to do it now. but I will definitally be doing it soon!

thanks
scott
Click to expand...

The same cushions can be used again, rail cloth has to be changed. As far as doing this yourself...no chance, requires special tools to perform the changes...while the rails are actually bolted down to the slate. Call me sometime, we can discuss your table...but wait until after the DCC...that way, everyone's had a chance to play on the Diamond's....and come back here and talk about how great the Diamond's actually play:grin:..then...we'll know we're getting somewhere:grin:
 
iusedtoberich said:
I absolutely hated how every Diamond table I ever played on in the last 15 years reacted when a ball hit the rail. (Pre-Rail modifications). Keep that in mind so that you know I am biased as you read my post.

I was able to play on a 9' ProAM Diamond at Conyers, GA about a month ago. This table was a few years old, but Mark Gregory modified the rails using RKC's technique, so that they are the same as the "Blue Label" tables. The cloth was well worn when I played on it, probably 4 or 5 months old. Simonis 860. The cushions were the Artemis, not the other Diamond cushions, because they had the clearly visible rounded nose on them.

I specifically went to this room to try out the rails. I shot a lot of 2, 3, and 4 rail position shots, along with 1, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks. Then I played one hole with a guy for maybe 3 hours.

The rails definitely did NOT play like a GC. Some shots did, and others did not. I thought the cueball still came off the rail faster than a GC, but it was slower than the prior Diamond design. At the tail end of a 3 or 4 rail position shot, the cueball just seemed strange to me. Again, my reference is a GC.

I will say I liked the rails a lot better than the previous Diamond rails I played on over the years.

At this point, the best description I can give is that the rails played more like a 3 cushion table than a GC pool table. Whether that is good or not I don't know. I really need more time on the table to decide that for myself.

My conclusion is I'm not decided if I like the rails or not. I need more time on the table (I haven't' been back there yet). I'm holding off on my opinion until I do that.
Click to expand...

IF...Diamond installed the black K55 cushions on their 9fts, then you'd get more of a modified Gold Crown play from the tables, but...the Artemis Intercontinental K55 cushions are actually a 3C cushion....thus, the table plays more like a billiards table....the main difference between the cushions is the billiards cushions have more of a rounded nose on them, that in turn translates into more grab/friction or transfer of spin, which equals more wider angles you have in your position play....you can't get that with Brunswick Super Speed cushions;)
 
I have to say, I'm not a fan of the new diamonds. Based on the blue logo being the new rail system, I still found it banked short and the spin didn't take off the rail. When I was hooked, I missed 1 rail kicks and some positional 2 or 3 rails shots. I only play on Diamond tables 2 times a year, so I probably noticed it a little more than others. I think these tables are taking some shots out of the game.
 
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Jason Robichaud said:
I have to say, I'm not a fan of the new diamonds. Based on the blue logo being the new rail system, I still found it banked short and the spin didn't take off the rail. When I was hooked, I missed 1 rail kicks and some positional 2 or 3 rails shots. I only play on Diamond tables 2 times a year, so I probably noticed it a little more than others. I think these tables are taking some shots out of the game.
Click to expand...

If you've got a stroke, then you can even spin the cue ball off of dead rails;) Maybe SVB can take the time to show you how to spin your rock off the rails:grin:
 
Jason Robichaud said:
I have to say, I'm not a fan of the new diamonds. Based on the blue logo being the new rail system, I still found it banked short and the spin didn't take off the rail. When I was hooked, I missed 1 rail kicks and some positional 2 or 3 rails shots. I only play on Diamond tables 2 times a year, so I probably noticed it a little more than others. I think these tables are taking some shots out of the game.
Click to expand...

They may have shipped the table you played on to Knoxville. I kicked 1rail with 2 tips of right and medium/soft speed expecting the cueball to open out about 30degrees off the end rail hitting the rail at close to perpendicular and was surprised when it came off like I had only used a tip or less. There were a few stun/spin shots that acted funny a well.

At this point I will chalk it up to the cloth still having sizing on it and the cueball not being able to grab yet.
 
realkingcobra said:
Yes...and no...LOL Yes, the blue logo is on the newer Diamond's...BUT a lot of the red logo Diamond rails have already been modified as well...to play with the new spec's....but the logo can't be changed...so, they're NEW playing...older style rails...make sense?
Click to expand...

Glen, I built a Diamond Professional with a Black logo the other day. Does the black represent anything?
 
hdgis1 said:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2786053&postcount=160

First let me say this - I don't know the gentleman who posted this comment and am not trying to get the guy in trouble. However, in the midst of the thread about Archers comments on Diamond tables, this one mans view seems to have been overlooked. Perhaps Glen can clarify exactly what diamond did to change the rails?
Click to expand...

There's alot to like about diamond tables. First and foremost they are one of the the biggest supporters of the game we have. Great design engineering, pockets play truer than any table made to date. I am only stressing what others have that many times rail kicks come off entirely wrong. 30 dregrees in and 20 degrees out just can't be right.

As RKC speaks of the effects of his changes I can attest to from my TS play is that an OB that slightly grazes a rail on the way in on a narrow angle shot doesn't rebound off and jar in the pocket as much as before. The rail changes have made them a bit less springy, they didn't seem to me accellerating of the third rail contact as before.

We appreciate your efforts to improve these tables further.
 
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ososlow said:
Hmm, ok i'll have to bribe you with some dr pepper and food when you come over. The question is..How much dam dr pepper and food will I need!
Click to expand...

Throw in some fried chicken...about say....12 legs & thighs and you might have a deal:grin:
 
bribe

ososlow said:
So your saying there's a chance! I am going to get a part time job at KFC :thumbup:
Click to expand...

_
_
you better apply at popeyes and get him some louisiana kitchen cajun fried chicken for trade of some artemis if you dnt already have em'
-
Rob.M
 
Im impressed...

Well - went last night to check out the new diamond and I must say I am impressed. I am by no means a pro, but to me the difference between the old and new is rather noticable. Good job diamond!

Chris
 
First let me say that I have played on alot of different brands of pool tables,GC,Gandy,Vitale,Valley etc.I started to play on I guess an old Diamond and felt that the rails were alot faster then the GC as well as the height of the table was alittle taller. I am NOT a fan of the Blue cloth. I think room owners should re-think their table lighting since what looks fashionable isn't the best lighting to play in and there are alot of rail shadows.Cloth is like washing your hair after a couple of days they both are manageble. What really is the problem in my opinion is the maintance of the table including cleaning,leveling,rail conditions etc.All tables play reasonably well when they are new,its the 6-8 month period you see tables play bad. I alway liked the way Brunswick tables played. I am not a fan of very fast tables or pockets that penalize you for the slightest mistake.I think pool on a professional level has tried to utilize smaller pockets and to some degree fast table conditions to weed out the lesser player and give the professional an edge. In my day Pro's didn't need an edge they adjusted and just ran out and you were packing up didn't matter the speed of the cloth or the pocket size.So i guess what i am saying is I think its time to re-think standard pocket size and speed of table. I see alot of people who don't play alot who have gravitated to bar boxes because it is easier to play. Just my opinion
 
Consistency

Lots of great posts. Diamonds bank short, that's the way it is. Bugs me to, and hope the fix really works. Problem is now we will have the old short banking tables and the new Improved ? Tables! Every table will not be upgraded. If they are going to FIX them then it should be like a recall in the auto industry. And how do they FIX the rails? Sounds simple to adjust the angle with some type of washer or gizmo from the factory. Realkingcobra ain't going to like that simple comment is he? Something no one has mentioned and I think is one of the biggest attributes to Diamonds is the consistency from table to table. Two huge rooms in Vegas with 175-200 tables in each room and they all play pretty much the same. Very little complaining. If you had the older short banking table, how much would the FIX cost. I assume it would be mostly labor or is there a parts cost?
 
iusedtoberich said:
I absolutely hated how every Diamond table I ever played on in the last 15 years reacted when a ball hit the rail. (Pre-Rail modifications). Keep that in mind so that you know I am biased as you read my post.

I was able to play on a 9' ProAM Diamond at Conyers, GA about a month ago. This table was a few years old, but Mark Gregory modified the rails using RKC's technique, so that they are the same as the "Blue Label" tables. The cloth was well worn when I played on it, probably 4 or 5 months old. Simonis 860. The cushions were the Artemis, not the other Diamond cushions, because they had the clearly visible rounded nose on them.

I specifically went to this room to try out the rails. I shot a lot of 2, 3, and 4 rail position shots, along with 1, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks. Then I played one hole with a guy for maybe 3 hours.

The rails definitely did NOT play like a GC. Some shots did, and others did not. I thought the cueball still came off the rail faster than a GC, but it was slower than the prior Diamond design. At the tail end of a 3 or 4 rail position shot, the cueball just seemed strange to me. Again, my reference is a GC.

I will say I liked the rails a lot better than the previous Diamond rails I played on over the years.

At this point, the best description I can give is that the rails played more like a 3 cushion table than a GC pool table. Whether that is good or not I don't know. I really need more time on the table to decide that for myself.

My conclusion is I'm not decided if I like the rails or not. I need more time on the table (I haven't' been back there yet). I'm holding off on my opinion until I do that.
Click to expand...

I can assure you that a stock brunswick gold crown isn't what Diamond is trying to duplicate.
 
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