New joint question

Rak9up

Rak9up

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has anyone ever seen a (light) joint collar that threaded on the inside and glued to the butt where the shaft can be threaded threaded into till both faces meet tight(like a pipe collar). This would eliminate a joint pin, hollow cut in the middle of the stick and an interior glue line. Allowing the harmonics to travel down the stick without "going around" components. Shmelke makes one but its brass there's a hollow spot the 2 wood faces don't mate tight. Any experiments or comments why this isn't used or wouldn't work
 
It's ugly imo and another bastard pin/joint we don't need.
Imo the radial pin, 3/8 10 and 11 flat are perfect for cues.
 
Interesting, but problematic

It's an interesting idea, but I see a major drawback. Although you could machine the shaft so that the bottom and the collar both seat securely (initially), but wood will swell and contract. The result would be either a gap where the shaft bottoms out or where it meets the joint collar.

One way around this would be some sort of compressable material inside the collar at the bottom and tighten the shaft down (compressing it) till the shaft meets the collar. The problem with this solution would be the "feel". I would think the hit would be "spongy".

Just my thoughts......
 
JoeyInCali said:
Imo the radial pin, 3/8 10 and 11 flat are perfect for cues.
Click to expand...


I agree with both Joey and Bill. There are definitely possibilities with that type of joint, but it would take awhile to get everything worked out correctly and to find the right compressive material as Bill stated. I do think the pins that Joey suggest give a really strong hit.
 
Whats the difference whether the threads are internal to the wood(Pin) or external(this new collar) as long as the pin and the collar are the same length. Its job is to hold the pieces of wood together and tight. You would think this would eliminate a component and allow for better harmonics thus letting the stick perform more like a 1 piece cue.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I've heard previously from others that if the shaft face and butt face inside of the joint collar are allowed to meet, they tend to buzz due to the vibration. The same reason most don't allow their A joint to face off in the same way.

Also, I think the joint that you are describing was used on the Brunswick "Personal," which was the post-Titlist 4 veneer of the 70s, only they did it in heavy brass, and I doubt that they let the faces actually meet. I'll see if I can find some pics.
 
go to pawn shop and look at some of the old Schmelke cues I think they had this joint design awhile back when they were making some of the Brunswick cues.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I've heard previously from others that if the shaft face and butt face inside of the joint collar are allowed to meet, they tend to buzz due to the vibration. The same reason most don't allow their A joint to face off in the same way.
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They won't buzz if they are square. Plus only about 5/8 in diam. are in contact. At the A-joint it's about 3/4 and they are glued to meet. Metal bolts in the A-joint is probably the number one source of buzzes there. Not the face.


Whats the difference whether the threads are internal to the wood(Pin) or external(this new collar) as long as the pin and the collar are the same length. Its job is to hold the pieces of wood together and tight. You would think this would eliminate a component and allow for better harmonics thus letting the stick perform more like a 1 piece cue.
Click to expand...
Cues are made of so many components. And if your assumption is true, a cue with a 3-piece butt , collars, pins and wraps will have bad harmonics.
Somehow those SW's ( among the many of course ) hit great for the most parts.
 
Rak9up said:
..... as long as the pin and the collar are the same length. .....
Click to expand...

That's just the point. An internal pin does NOT bottom out in the shaft. The theaded hole (or insert) is longer than the pin. The pin simply pulls the shaft face to the butt face. In your proposed design (if I understand it correctly), the base of the shaft needs to bottom out to the face of the butt and the lip on the shaft needs to bottom out to the collar. As I stated before, this can be done initially, but, as the wood swells and contracts, that "same length" will vary leaving a gap somewhere.
 
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Bill thanks for the obsevations... the base of the shaft would need to bottom out to the face of the butt but the lip on the shaft would not neccessarily need to bottom out to the collar(extremly close mind you or a flexable material there for asthetics). As you screw the shaft to the butt it would stops everytime when the faces meet.... Yes on traditional cues there is a pocket on most cues behind the pin some maker even drill pilot holes to relieve the hydralic pressure during assembly. Just a thought on a new idea to simplifying and imroving the joint somtimes less is more. Just looking for the truest wood to wood hit.
 
Rak9up said:
Its job is to hold the pieces of wood together and tight. You would think this would eliminate a component and allow for better harmonics thus letting the stick perform more like a 1 piece cue.
Click to expand...


If one piece cues perform better why are there no pro players using them?

Willee
 
Just went back to re-read this post. No matter where the metal is placed in or around the wood it is going to stifle the harmonics of the wood. If vibration transmission is what you are looking for G-10 is the way to go. You have the surface area of the flat faced joint and no metal. IMO A good hard wood collar and or phenolics installed properly will hit and feel really good. If you don't use the right woods, tolerances, glues, process it will probably feel like kaka no matter what you use. Solid is as solid does.
 
Very interesting concept although I agree something similar has been done before ther is obvious room for improvement on the original idea....

if both pieces of wood bottom out precisely and there was a sealer on both exposed surfaces then wouldn't that solve the swelling and buzz problem of it and give him what he was looking for ???

After all this is the 21st century and alot of technological innovations have been introduced to the billiard would since that original brunswick joint was used...

I'm sure with the extensive knowlege all of us cuebuilders have, we could solve this problem and make it work instead of shooting it down like so many other outside the box ideas....

Besides I for one would like to see all of us working TOGETHER on a project for a change !!!



- Eddie Wheat
 
WilleeCue said:
If one piece cues perform better why are there no pro players using them?

Willee
Click to expand...



Wilee, I think becasue of simple convienence and comfort....


It's hard to carry around a 58-60" cue comfortably !

But as a fellow cuemaker you can obviously agree that a house cue hits pretty damn good !



- Eddie Wheat
 
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