New Rails

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
My guess is that the sub-rail angle is not right on those tables. In hindsight I think I wish I had put Superspeeds on my GC but when I had my rails done everyone and their brother was installing Artemis so thats what I used. I can not fault the Artemis cushions on my table one bit. Since my table is in the basement I often get to play in humid conditions in the summer, if anything I think my table slows down a little rather than speeds up in high humidity but the difference is minute.


I have the same experience as you, as mine is in a basement as well.

The subrails on mine were tuned for the cushions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My guess is that the sub-rail angle is not right on those tables. In hindsight I think I wish I had put Superspeeds on my GC but when I had my rails done everyone and their brother was installing Artemis so thats what I used. I can not fault the Artemis cushions on my table one bit. Since my table is in the basement I often get to play in humid conditions in the summer, if anything I think my table slows down a little rather than speeds up in high humidity but the difference is minute.

The designers of the Superspeed knew what they were doing.
Make the contact point as small as possible to eliminate the grab as much as possible.
Superspeed's tip is sharper while Artemis is more rounded.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
The designers of the Superspeed knew what they were doing.
Make the contact point as small as possible to eliminate the grab as much as possible.
Superspeed's tip is sharper while Artemis is more rounded.

I have never played on anything newer than a GC4, maybe if I had I would throw away my Artemis cushions immediately but comparing my table to a blue label Diamond I am more than satisfied with it.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Gold Member
Silver Member
Damn fine post. This is a FACT in my book.
the Artemis has a "belly" and that allows more contact on the ball.

Now, we all know Diamond is NEVER going to change their table and I have grown to love them. I love all of the GC's Anniversary and Centennial, they created pool as we all know it. Diamond has taken things to the next level.

Good to hear from you Joey, I hope all is well out your way!

TFT:thumbup:


The designers of the Superspeed knew what they were doing.
Make the contact point as small as possible to eliminate the grab as much as possible.
Superspeed's tip is sharper while Artemis is more rounded.
 

bignick31985

Life Long Learner
Silver Member
That looks like 4 1/2 to me. It looks great. How do you like the Arcos2?
It may be right at 4.5" at the point. Hard to get my caliper in there by design. Haven't put a tape on it either lol.

The Arcos balls play good. Hard for me to tell a difference between them and the Aramith sets. They are made by Aramith though.

Update: Put a tape measure on it last night, they are a tick under 4.5" at the points.
 
Last edited:

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Man just to reiterate, don't ever put anything but superspeed on a GC. I went to Drexeline Billiards in PA last night. They have 20 GC4 tables, purchased new in 2001 or so. (I was there when they were purchased). They have played jam up all these years. About 5 years ago, 4 of the tables that were previously triple shimmed for 1 hole play had new cushions installed in an extended fashion to make the pockets tight for one hole, without using shims. (One hole is the main game in this room). The owner told me at the time he put the Diamond cushions on it, and was very proud that the tables had new Diamond cushions. It has to be the black, not the Artemis, because the cushion is not very rounded like the Artemis is. (But disclaimer I never saw these 4 tables without the cloth).


During the day when the crowd is thin and the tables are dry, these extended rails play a little faster than the other tables with the original superposed from 2001, but not crazy fast. But at night, when the crowd is bigger, the room is more humid, and the balls are actually sticky (you can see the stickiness with your eyes) they play like pin ball machines. Just as bad as a Diamond when its humid. If you move over one table to the original superspeed in the same conditions, it plays normal speed.

I can't wrap my head around why anyone likes these Diamond cushions, be it Black or Artemis. Go to any room that is slightly humid, with old cloth, and you will want to pull your hair out at how unnaturally the balls fly off the rails. And move over one table to superspeed, and all is good.

This is my opinion, and I'm no champion, but its a super strong opinion. The top players in the room say the same thing.

Why would the brand of cushion you put on a table matter if the sub-rail angle and height is correct?? The wood doesnt really know if the label on it says Brunswick, Diamond, Gandy, or whichever table you choose. I would guess there is a lot of bad information out there from people using K55 and K66 on Gold Crowns that were originally built for Monarch Superspeeds. When I had new cushions installed on my GCI I had table mechanics telling me to just put K55's on, it wouldnt make much difference that they did not fit the table properly. I disagree, all multi-rail shots would play unusual compared to a table that is properly twice as long as it is wide. Then a person who doesnt know that the table has the wrong cushion on it simply asks "what brand of cushion is on that table", they learn the brand and blame that brand for a table and not the set up for the table playing odd.
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
Why would the brand of cushion you put on a table matter if the sub-rail angle and height is correct?? The wood doesnt really know if the label on it says Brunswick, Diamond, Gandy, or whichever table you choose. I would guess there is a lot of bad information out there from people using K55 and K66 on Gold Crowns that were originally built for Monarch Superspeeds. When I had new cushions installed on my GCI I had table mechanics telling me to just put K55's on, it wouldnt make much difference that they did not fit the table properly. I disagree, all multi-rail shots would play unusual compared to a table that is properly twice as long as it is wide. Then a person who doesnt know that the table has the wrong cushion on it simply asks "what brand of cushion is on that table", they learn the brand and blame that brand for a table and not the set up for the table playing odd.
There are so many variables, that I highly doubt very many people would be able to:
first - Notice much of a difference
second - Determine the true source of the difference.

The torque of the bolts on a pocket casting will change the way that a Gold Crown banks, as will the tension on the rail cloth, and at least a dozen other things.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Why would the brand of cushion you put on a table matter if the sub-rail angle and height is correct?? The wood doesnt really know if the label on it says Brunswick, Diamond, Gandy, or whichever table you choose. I would guess there is a lot of bad information out there from people using K55 and K66 on Gold Crowns that were originally built for Monarch Superspeeds. When I had new cushions installed on my GCI I had table mechanics telling me to just put K55's on, it wouldnt make much difference that they did not fit the table properly. I disagree, all multi-rail shots would play unusual compared to a table that is properly twice as long as it is wide. Then a person who doesnt know that the table has the wrong cushion on it simply asks "what brand of cushion is on that table", they learn the brand and blame that brand for a table and not the set up for the table playing odd.
Well the tables I'm specifically referring to are GC4. They don't need the angle changed to use modern cushion profiles like the GC1 and GC2 do. But for my broader opinion, a factory fresh Diamond Blue label plays like crap. So in that case its 100% as designed from the factory and no mechanic or room owner messed with it. I can take you to a room in NJ with brand new Blues, and a room in Atlanta with brand new Blues. And next to them they will have GC's. When the cloth is brand new on both brand tables and the room is nice and dry, both the diamonds and the GC play nice. When the cloth gets worn, and the room is a little humid, the diamonds turn into pin ball machines. But the GC's right next to them barely change. That's my whole issue. Something is wrong with Diamond's design. IDK if its the cushion, or the wood angle, or whatever. The switch to Blue label did not fix it. At the room in NJ, there are red label and blue label right next to each other. I'd bet anyone they couldn't tell the difference if I covered up the logo. There is another room just like that in PA. Its a small bar with 4 7' Diamonds. Half Red and half blue right next to each other. They play the same. Diamond has been ignoring this issue for years. If the rails bounced right, they would be the best tables hands down. But they play like pinball machines unless the conditions are perfect. And this isn't just my opinion. Many many players think the same. We've all been brainwashed that Diamond is jam up. End rant. And I'm no mechanic, sorry for posting in this section, when I originally replied to this thread I mistakenly thought it was in the main forum.
 
Top