new run for comment

[wigglybridge]

some months on, here's another video, with an updated stroke. i was surprised to see that although i felt like i was playing very slowly and deliberately, in actuality it's more like Lou Butera once i address the shot (minus the accuracy).

https://vimeo.com/36434705

i spent most of the 2nd rack trying to get on one of the two secondary break balls i had, and missing position. then when i finally did get on the 2, i hit it Way wide of the pocket!

all comments about patterns, stroke, etc, are welcome.

 

[Dan White]

OK, I'm up late trying to remove a virus from my laptop. While that progresses, I'm watching your video. I'll give you my 2 cents. Don't take anything the wrong way, of course, these are just my opinions and observations:

1. First rack you hit the 7 in the corner and bumped into the 5. Bad move that could have ended your run. Better to plan on coming off the foot rail between the 5 and 13 (using some right english), or just to bump the 13 a little for a shot on the 5.

2. The next shot (rail shot in the upper corner). You stood up just during or after your follow through. Watch your head in the video. No reason not to stay down on the shot and relaxed, especially when shooting a tester.

3. You looked a little lost on the last 5 or 6 in that first rack. (What I look like, too :smile

4. 14 ball break from behind the rack - I might've put some left english on that shot to bring the cue ball above the rack off the side rail.

5. Here's what I saw in that second rack. You had the 12 as a perfect break ball with the 6 to get you in a good position for the 12. However, you were on the wrong side of the 6 and from that distance you probably couldn't have held the cue ball. It's hard to tell, but maybe you could have. Or, you could have shot the 6 and followed the cue ball into the foot rail and back for the 12. In any case, you had the 1 to help you get on the other side of the 6. If you could have cheated the pocket on the 1 and come around to center table for the 6, you have been in a good spot for the 12. If you couldn't cheat it, then maybe a good draw back to center table would have worked. Having said that, you did manage to get on the 2. Was there only 1/2 a pocket to shoot at?

Overall, nice stroke. Just be sure to stay down and relaxed on the more difficult shots.

 

[wigglybridge]

thanks for watching and commenting, Dan!

1. yeah, i Tried not to bump either of those balls, i wanted to come up above them. which was unrealistic given my positional skills, so i should've figured out a different idea. fortunately, i was clumsily bumping into balls So much that i nudged the 5 back into a break ball 2 shots later! (accidentally).

2. you're right; i see myself jumping up a bunch in this video.

3. not so much lost as "trying desperately not to f**k up an easy layout", which is what i Usually do at that point!

4. good tip! i use outside naturally with an opening break from there, but for some reason, never even think of it on a secondary break, duh me. that would've saved a lot of struggle here.

5. yep, i couldn't hold the cue off that 6, initially. and i Kept getting in the wrong position on it, circling the cluster again. i missed position on it off the 7 in the side. i then tried to get on the 2, but over-ran it. then severely Underhit the 1, leaving myself on the wrong side of the 6 AGAIN! i finally hit a really nice positional shot nonetheless, getting perfect on the 2, which really had almost the entire pocket, but then totally dogged it. which i think was from jumping again -- i can see my hand come up pretty fast at the end of the video.

many thanks again for taking the time to watch and comment. "stay down and relaxed".

 

[michael4]

Wiggly, nice shooting, thank you for sharing!!
Here are my random thoughts:

1) you play better than me, so my comments are probably not worth much!
2) I dont think you chalked before each shot (I dont either)
3) Yes as mentioned, the first rack, I thought you were bumping balls a little too much (increases chance of something going wrong of course)
4) your early breakout shots (1st and 3rd shots of video) seemed a little reckless to my eyes, cue ball flying into the large cluster. Something could have gone wrong (but it didnt of course - well done - and I dont know how, or if, it could have been done any better)
5) last shot you made before you missed. I thought you were going to move the cue off the bottom rail into the cluster for a break out. I could not see from the angle of the camera that the 2 ball would go into the corner.
6) Carpet looks like it was stolen from a vegas casino in 1979!
7) see comment # 1 again.

 

[Dan White]

3) Yes as mentioned, the first rack, I thought you were bumping balls a little too much...

I would just add the word "unintentionally" to the end of that sentence. Bumping balls around is a skill necessary for good runs.

 

[wigglybridge]

hey, Michael, thanks for the observations; they're welcome from all quarters, all levels; i have a lot to learn, and i found out in other fields that i often learn important things from people who may not think they know so much, but have interesting insights. heck, that's why *i* say stuff here; most everyone's better than me.

2) both chalks were kinda "cakey" that night, so i Was chalking less than usual, because it was doing weird things on the tip. not sure what that was about; they were just the house Masters, and had even been broken in almost exactly the shape i like them.

3) what Dan said!

4) on the 1st shot, i had insurance balls and was confident of where the cue was going, so i knew i'd have a shot. but you're right on the 2nd one, i was just Assuming because there were enough balls free, that i'd hit that cluster and come out with a shot (and we all know what the first 3 letters of "assume" are). as it happened, i hit the cluster on the correct side to knock out balls but not lose the cue down below the balls, but that was just dumb luck, i don't really have that much control.

5) i didn't have the angle to come off the bottom cushion, but i certainly could've drawn the cue directly off the 6 into the cluster, and with 20-20 hindsight, that might've been a better idea. i was being a little chicken about the long shot, but it was the kind of angle i like, so if i had it to do over, i'd probably do that, because i certainly wasn't even money to get position on the 2 from there, and of course, i ended up on the rail and dogged it anyway.

thanks again for your thoughts, and don't be hesitant to pipe up; things here in 14.1 land are considerably more civil than some other forums; all of these folks are way helpful!

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Bob:

First of all -- good job. You look so much better over the ball than you did in your first video. So no matter what -- it's mission accomplished. Now that you have a lot better structure, your improvement is going to be a lot more steady.

Load your video again and fast forward to the 6 ball in the second rack. Replay that that shot two or three times before you read any further.

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You shot that 6 ball like you were afraid to miss it instead of shooting it with total conviction. Your probably smiling because if you shot that 6 ball with bad intentions you would have incinerated that rack and you'd probably still be running out.

I noticed you tend to roll the CB a little when you fall into a situation that might be a hair out of your comfort zone. Practice shooting that shot by striking firmer and below center and just assume you'll make it. Don't be afraid because if you miss, you're screwed. If you roll it, you're also screwed. So, since you're planning to make it -- make it how you have to make it to continue your run (if that makes sense)

Anyways, great job. You're playing well.

 

[wigglybridge]

dude, you So have me nailed...

that was the wobbliest, most indecisive stroke of the inning -- it's amazing the ball went in, much less i ended up in position.

thank you for spotting the psychology behind the shooting!

 

[Ratta]

I would just add the word "unintentionally" to the end of that sentence. Bumping balls around is a skill necessary for good runs.

Amen! At some point *you* learn, that you have to just shoot the balls into the pockets straight-pool. Patterns are great-and you have for sure to learn and know them; but pocketing is the thing where it s all about! But to just let your game *flow* is necessary for higher runs.

lg
Ingo

 

[rikdee]

Rack #1 - once a BB is nominated, a ball positioned near and below it should generally be removed as an order of priority. In rack #1, once the five was the nominated BB, the dark solid (the one you used before the key ball) is in the position described above. Balls so placed can often become trouble when left late in the sequence.

 

[alstl]

Keep posting the videos. In the second rack I probably would have used the 6 to get on the 15 to open up the rack.

Good run.

 

[wigglybridge]

thanks, Al!

i actually did try to get on the 6, twice, to get at that 15, but each time i was on the wrong side of the 6, and given My cue ball moving skills, decided i'd end up snookered instead. each time, i wanted to be towards the center of the table more, so i'd be either straight on the 6, or to be able to go into the rail off it and land on the 15.

as pointed out above, given i'm a slightly better shot-maker than position player, i should have just beat the living snot outta that 6 ball and blasted the rack open. i was a little too concerned with trying to do it "right", and not enough focused on what i can actually execute, and then confident in doing it.

thanks, everybody, for the observations -- i'm learning a lot.

 

[Dan White]

i should have just beat the living snot outta that 6 ball and blasted the rack open.

Hmm... I dunno. Using the Bob Jewett method, set up that shot and blast it 10 times. If you make it every time then it is probably a good strategy. Blasting balls open and missing is worst mistake you can make.

 

[stevekur1]

I'll check it out later and give my review maybe with some screenshots if I can figure it out...

Hey Bob, are you going to the expo ? I may have to bump your rating up if I see anything real good on this video... Lol j/k if you are going I look forward to meeting you at the Fury 14.1 Challenge !!!

Steve

 

[wigglybridge]

Dan, i hear you, and your comment made me think about this a lot as i traveled to a sound gig tonight.

some of my thinking went along the lines of percentages of success rates. i might not make that break shot 10 out of 10; i'll bet i would 8 out of 10, though. and there's No Way i'd get position on that 2 ball even 3 out of 10; i just don't have that skill yet. and then i blew it and blasted the rack open anyway, so the downside was the same.

another way to look at it: if you forced me to bet $100 that either (1) i could make that 6-ball break shot, or (2) i could get position on that 2 ball and make it and open the rack... there's simply no question which bet i'd take.

at the same time, i get it that straight pool is a game where if the percentage is below x%, a smart player plays safe.

i guess what i'm trying to 2nd-guess is: which would have had a higher percentage of success: me blasting that 6 ball, or me playing position on the 2 and then Making the 2? and i have the data on the latter, and it didn't work out in this case -- maybe for other reasons, like bad fundamentals (i Did come up off the shot).

i understand there also was no guarantee if i went into the rack from the 6 that i'd have come out with a shot.

my conclusion thus far is that it's a judgement call at the time, based on my best guess as to my ability in each domain. what's annoying in this case is that i didn't really Consider using the 6 directly as a break ball. i Hate It when i'm blindsided by an existing structure in my head!

 

[wigglybridge]

Steve, there's little danger of me moving up in the ranks from this video! but i do look forward to your comments if you get the time to see it; i realize life is busy...

and yes, i'm definitely planning to get to SBE and spend a Lot of time around the Challenge, and hopefully meeting you and others there. i found out just a day ago that i'm supposed to work a concert in NH Thursday night (grrrrr), and it's a hard one to wiggle out of, but i'm going to try. because i'd at least like to be there for the whole day Friday, because i assume it gets Crazy-packed on the weekend?

anyway, looking forward to it waaaay much!

 

[stevekur1]

Steve, there's little danger of me moving up in the ranks from this video! but i do look forward to your comments if you get the time to see it; i realize life is busy...

and yes, i'm definitely planning to get to SBE and spend a Lot of time around the Challenge, and hopefully meeting you and others there. i found out just a day ago that i'm supposed to work a concert in NH Thursday night (grrrrr), and it's a hard one to wiggle out of, but i'm going to try. because i'd at least like to be there for the whole day Friday, because i assume it gets Crazy-packed on the weekend?

anyway, looking forward to it waaaay much!

Hey Bob,

that sounds great, bummer that you have to work a gig though. I Look forward to it !!

I tried loading your video into my video capture program and its the strangest thing, the video is sideways and kind of hard to watch to get some screenshots. I will watch the video on Vimeo and take some notes, and submit my replies tomorrow. I am glad you posted some more footage for us to review.

Cya soon
-Steve

 

[Dan White]

i guess what i'm trying to 2nd-guess is: which would have had a higher percentage of success: me blasting that 6 ball, or me playing position on the 2 and then Making the 2?

And of course the other thing is to consider who you are playing. Are they capable of running more than the balls left on the table? What is the score? etc. etc.

I haven't mentioned this in awhile but I spent 1/2 a day with Rempe some years ago. Something jumped out at me about his play. If he had to play position for a shot uptable he would always opt for playing good position and taking a (now) simple shot rather than settling for a longish but makeable shot. In other words, he'd play what seemed at the time like a difficult position play to create a simple shot, rather than take simple position to take a harder, 9 ball type shot. Looking back on it, it really wasn't difficult position if you know where the cue ball is going (of course).

This is why I often comment that people spend hours talking about aiming systems and just about completely ignore "position systems." Playing good position so that you can get where you need to be is not that hard if you (ie, people in general) spend more time working on position.

 

[stevekur1]

Hey Bob,

I finally got a chance to check out the video, and was able to take some screenshots. Now if i can only straighten out my neck from having to watch it sideways in my video editing program....LOL j/k Here goes:

First off i will say that you played out the first rack beautifully, a couple of little things that i saw but nothing major. outside of what was brought up already about shooting that ball on the rail and jumping up.

Reference #1



Although the end pattern is not a textbook one, you do a great job of entering the keyball outside of leaving your CB on the rail. which is just a speed issue. you played that perfectly. You do a good job of table maintenance by looking and measuring out exactly where you want to be on the BB.

Reference #2



On this breakshot i would of preferred to see you hit that with a punch draw shot, drawing back towards center table. playing it the way you did was more of a glancing blow on the rack, end result was only knocking out a few balls.

Reference #3



It appeared to me that you kind of babied this breakout shot, try using a high left english on this shot to get your CB back to the middle of the table.

 

[stevekur1]

Continuation

Reference #4



in this position i would of played the 6 Ball with a stop/stun shot to get on the 10 Ball being a hair under it to break open the cluster having that 1 Ball up table as an insurance ball being that the CB would be traveling up table after contacting the cluster from an angle slightly under the 10.

Reference #5



when shooting the 6 Ball you are forced into a position of traveling alot to your next ball and shooting it in such a way that you will be crossing the position zone for the 4 Ball.

Reference #6



I think you were in an awkward position here having to shoot a touchy break out shot here while shooting right off the rail, and i think the cluster sharked you a little bit.


To sum things up for Reference #'s 4,5,6

I would of preferred to see you shoot the 10 ball as the break out shot, as i pointed out in #4. it seemed like a more controlled situation.


Again thanks for sharing the video, and i look forward to seeing more of your progress, you're doing great. and again i look forward to meeting and spending time with you at the Fury 14.1 Challenge at SBE


Hope This Helped !
-Steve