not bad, not great
have a look if you have a few minutes to kill
http://vimeo.com/29123299
thanks, jim
have a look if you have a few minutes to kill
http://vimeo.com/29123299
thanks, jim
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new video- another 42
- Thread starter strtshtr
- Start date
Hey Jim,
i watched your video, it was a nice run. Good Shooting !!!
the things i noticed off the bat were, that you are still not walking around the table as often as you should. You do, do it and the times you do it seems your percentages go up on position. when you don't it seems like those shots are kind of empty, almost seem without purpose.
also watch those break shots, twice i believe you end up all the way down table. pay more attention to the rack and notice which balls are going to leak out and try to play shape on them on those break-shots where you don't have a nice angle into the pack.
Be careful breaking up clusters when you are breaking them towards other open balls and possible break-shots.
I am sorry i didn't take notice to certain times in the video that i caught these things, i will re-watch it later on this evening so i can be more specific on what i am referencing.
Keep up the great playing, and i look forward to seeing more, i just know that 50+ is around the corner real soon !!
-Steve
i watched your video, it was a nice run. Good Shooting !!!
the things i noticed off the bat were, that you are still not walking around the table as often as you should. You do, do it and the times you do it seems your percentages go up on position. when you don't it seems like those shots are kind of empty, almost seem without purpose.
also watch those break shots, twice i believe you end up all the way down table. pay more attention to the rack and notice which balls are going to leak out and try to play shape on them on those break-shots where you don't have a nice angle into the pack.
Be careful breaking up clusters when you are breaking them towards other open balls and possible break-shots.
I am sorry i didn't take notice to certain times in the video that i caught these things, i will re-watch it later on this evening so i can be more specific on what i am referencing.
Keep up the great playing, and i look forward to seeing more, i just know that 50+ is around the corner real soon !!
-Steve
steve, thanks for watching and for the comments
i've been making the effort to walk around a bit more as you and some others pointed it out before. no doubt it helps quite a bit, helping me to see things i would otherwise miss. i still need to work on it, though, until it becomes more second nature to me.
i have real difficulty on break shots requiring draw. it seems i either don't draw enough (or at all) and get stuck close to the stack, or i overdraw and end up downtable. in some cases, i've taken to drawing the bejesus out of the ball and coming off the end halfway back down the table, but it's not my first choice.
on the one break ( at the 11:55 mark), i actually stunned into the second ball from the top, but it hit it at the perfect angle to deflect all the way up table. i'm not sure i'll reach the level that will allow me to predict that one.
the 50's have come, unfortunately not captured on camera. i guess i'm just a bit shy.
thanks again for the help and encouragement
best regards, jim
i've been making the effort to walk around a bit more as you and some others pointed it out before. no doubt it helps quite a bit, helping me to see things i would otherwise miss. i still need to work on it, though, until it becomes more second nature to me.
i have real difficulty on break shots requiring draw. it seems i either don't draw enough (or at all) and get stuck close to the stack, or i overdraw and end up downtable. in some cases, i've taken to drawing the bejesus out of the ball and coming off the end halfway back down the table, but it's not my first choice.
on the one break ( at the 11:55 mark), i actually stunned into the second ball from the top, but it hit it at the perfect angle to deflect all the way up table. i'm not sure i'll reach the level that will allow me to predict that one.
the 50's have come, unfortunately not captured on camera. i guess i'm just a bit shy.
thanks again for the help and encouragement
best regards, jim
At 1:04 (shooting the 6) what were you trying to do? Another option for this shot is to shoot the 6 and go 1 rail for the 4 (I think - its the ball uptable), then the 15, 11, drift down for the 1 and follow into the 3 ball cluster, shooting either the 8 or 13 as safety balls. No pot luck or anything tricky there.
At 2:08 going into the 3 ball cluster. IMO, you shot those WAY too hard. You sent the 2 ball way up table, and created a new cluster with the 13/12. You could have hit that with lots of draw and soft speed to pop the two balls out a foot or so and have a shot on the 11.
At 4:55 you are making your first break shot. I notice that you don't even stop to look where the cue ball is going to hit the rack. If you can train yourself to see the exact contact point (still working on that myself) you'd have seen that you were hitting the top side of the second ball. You should have been using a little follow to put the brakes on the cue ball. Your cue ball would have been in the middle of the table that way. Same goes for your second break shot. I'm not saying I'm a world beater myself, but I spend more time than most making sure I know where that cue ball is going to hit the pack. I don't remember the last time I left the cue ball at the head of the table, although I do sometimes stick the cue all if I'm at a shallow angle. Spend some time on this and I think you'll find it cuts down on losing the cue ball.
At 15:40 you shoot a ball in the upper corner. You had it a little rough from there on out. Just another way of going about it, but how about shooting the 8 first with a little draw and some touch so the cue ball doesn't go too far. Then the 7 in the corner for an angle on the 13. Drift up for the 1 in the side and follow to shoot the 10 in the other side. This would allow you to follow into the rail for a good angle on the break ball. I like preserving those two balls so I can set up to follow the 10 in as the key ball. I'm sure there are other decent ways to go.
I don't mean to be too critical. These are just things that jumped out at me and aren't meant to be criticisms. Steve knows more than I do anyway, so maybe just listen to him.
Nice shooting overall. Thanks for posting! (guess I'm the first of the early Monday morning crowd).
At 2:08 going into the 3 ball cluster. IMO, you shot those WAY too hard. You sent the 2 ball way up table, and created a new cluster with the 13/12. You could have hit that with lots of draw and soft speed to pop the two balls out a foot or so and have a shot on the 11.
At 4:55 you are making your first break shot. I notice that you don't even stop to look where the cue ball is going to hit the rack. If you can train yourself to see the exact contact point (still working on that myself) you'd have seen that you were hitting the top side of the second ball. You should have been using a little follow to put the brakes on the cue ball. Your cue ball would have been in the middle of the table that way. Same goes for your second break shot. I'm not saying I'm a world beater myself, but I spend more time than most making sure I know where that cue ball is going to hit the pack. I don't remember the last time I left the cue ball at the head of the table, although I do sometimes stick the cue all if I'm at a shallow angle. Spend some time on this and I think you'll find it cuts down on losing the cue ball.
At 15:40 you shoot a ball in the upper corner. You had it a little rough from there on out. Just another way of going about it, but how about shooting the 8 first with a little draw and some touch so the cue ball doesn't go too far. Then the 7 in the corner for an angle on the 13. Drift up for the 1 in the side and follow to shoot the 10 in the other side. This would allow you to follow into the rail for a good angle on the break ball. I like preserving those two balls so I can set up to follow the 10 in as the key ball. I'm sure there are other decent ways to go.
I don't mean to be too critical. These are just things that jumped out at me and aren't meant to be criticisms. Steve knows more than I do anyway, so maybe just listen to him.
Nice shooting overall. Thanks for posting! (guess I'm the first of the early Monday morning crowd).
Hi Dan,
Don't worry about being too critical- I've been married for thirty years so i am well accustomed to it.
At 1:04, i did have the choice to follow, as you suggest, which might have been a better route. The problem, as i saw it, was that although the eight balls loosely scattered around the spot were broken free, only a few had pockets available. so i chose to comeup inside them, reasoning that by rearranging the furniture a bit, i might improve my chances. of course, i ran the risk of tying balls up, but i didn't like the layout as it was.
at 2:08, my concern was that if i rolled the 3 ball in, i might get stuck behind the 2, and not be able to see the 11. i wanted to assure myself of clearing the 2. the result was less than ideal, certainly, but preferable to getting hooked. it really goes back to the problem mentioned above- few available pockets. the 10 didn't go in the corner, or i would have had a much easier route. i took the 3 when i could, but hit it way too hard
at 4:55- i can't see following this break shot- so there we differ strongly. however, i certainly do need a good deal of work on judging exactly where the cue ball will contact the pile. i am very weak when it comes to hitting the draw breakshots- for every one i execute properly, parking the ball mid table, i either stick or overdraw a dozen.
at 15:40 - for starters, i'm not a big fan of the 10 for a key ball in this situation. personal preference, but for side key balls, i prefer them to be a good deal closer to the pocket.
that said, my reasoning was this- by shooting the 15, 1, 8, 7, 11 sequence- it was basically stop stop, stop, soft follow, then one rail to break position. unfortunately, i didn't stop the first shot as well as i wanted to, drawing it back just a hair. this caused me to have to make more difficult shots, and alter the pattern to shoot the 11 prior to the 7.
the whole idea was to limit cue ball movement, which i failed to do.
thanks for watching, dan. i appreciate the comments.
best regards, jim
Don't worry about being too critical- I've been married for thirty years so i am well accustomed to it
.At 1:04, i did have the choice to follow, as you suggest, which might have been a better route. The problem, as i saw it, was that although the eight balls loosely scattered around the spot were broken free, only a few had pockets available. so i chose to comeup inside them, reasoning that by rearranging the furniture a bit, i might improve my chances. of course, i ran the risk of tying balls up, but i didn't like the layout as it was.
at 2:08, my concern was that if i rolled the 3 ball in, i might get stuck behind the 2, and not be able to see the 11. i wanted to assure myself of clearing the 2. the result was less than ideal, certainly, but preferable to getting hooked. it really goes back to the problem mentioned above- few available pockets. the 10 didn't go in the corner, or i would have had a much easier route. i took the 3 when i could, but hit it way too hard
at 4:55- i can't see following this break shot- so there we differ strongly. however, i certainly do need a good deal of work on judging exactly where the cue ball will contact the pile. i am very weak when it comes to hitting the draw breakshots- for every one i execute properly, parking the ball mid table, i either stick or overdraw a dozen.
at 15:40 - for starters, i'm not a big fan of the 10 for a key ball in this situation. personal preference, but for side key balls, i prefer them to be a good deal closer to the pocket.
that said, my reasoning was this- by shooting the 15, 1, 8, 7, 11 sequence- it was basically stop stop, stop, soft follow, then one rail to break position. unfortunately, i didn't stop the first shot as well as i wanted to, drawing it back just a hair. this caused me to have to make more difficult shots, and alter the pattern to shoot the 11 prior to the 7.
the whole idea was to limit cue ball movement, which i failed to do.
thanks for watching, dan. i appreciate the comments.
best regards, jim
At 1:04 (shooting the 6) what were you trying to do? Another option for this shot is to shoot the 6 and go 1 rail for the 4 (I think - its the ball uptable), then the 15, 11, drift down for the 1 and follow into the 3 ball cluster, shooting either the 8 or 13 as safety balls. No pot luck or anything tricky there.
At 2:08 going into the 3 ball cluster. IMO, you shot those WAY too hard. You sent the 2 ball way up table, and created a new cluster with the 13/12. You could have hit that with lots of draw and soft speed to pop the two balls out a foot or so and have a shot on the 11.
At 4:55 you are making your first break shot. I notice that you don't even stop to look where the cue ball is going to hit the rack. If you can train yourself to see the exact contact point (still working on that myself) you'd have seen that you were hitting the top side of the second ball. You should have been using a little follow to put the brakes on the cue ball. Your cue ball would have been in the middle of the table that way. Same goes for your second break shot. I'm not saying I'm a world beater myself, but I spend more time than most making sure I know where that cue ball is going to hit the pack. I don't remember the last time I left the cue ball at the head of the table, although I do sometimes stick the cue all if I'm at a shallow angle. Spend some time on this and I think you'll find it cuts down on losing the cue ball.
At 15:40 you shoot a ball in the upper corner. You had it a little rough from there on out. Just another way of going about it, but how about shooting the 8 first with a little draw and some touch so the cue ball doesn't go too far. Then the 7 in the corner for an angle on the 13. Drift up for the 1 in the side and follow to shoot the 10 in the other side. This would allow you to follow into the rail for a good angle on the break ball. I like preserving those two balls so I can set up to follow the 10 in as the key ball. I'm sure there are other decent ways to go.
I don't mean to be too critical. These are just things that jumped out at me and aren't meant to be criticisms. Steve knows more than I do anyway, so maybe just listen to him.
Nice shooting overall. Thanks for posting! (guess I'm the first of the early Monday morning crowd).
I'm curious about that break shot in the video. Sometimes it's hard to see the exact angles. Look at this cuetable. How would you hit this break shot, which will contact just above center on the 3 ball? (For some reason the cue ball isn't showing up on Cuetable, so I put the 8 ball there instead).
Good Question.
I would usually, given the angle, hit the cue ball just below center, hoping to draw to mid table.
Given different contact points, however, different results will ensue.
If you are going to contact the top part of the 3 ball the cue ball will have a tendency to glance up towards the kitchen and therefore the draw would send the cue ball even further into the kitchen. Perhaps, just a bit of follow would counteract the tendency and keep the cue ball mid table.
I'd be interested in your suggestion as to what to use and what to expect.
It would also be nice to talk about how to hit the ball, if you moved the break ball up or down, changing the contact points on the rack.
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dan,
good question and illustration. as i said, my performance on this type of shot is pretty poor, so i may not be the one to ask, but i'll venture my opinion.
firstly, i'd rule out a follow stroke. i would feel as though the chances of scratching in the corner were too great. seems like if it doesn't go directly into the corner, one of the bals in the stack comes free to provide a perfect carom for the scratch.
from the lines drawn, it appears as though a draw stroke would give you a contact point with the "underside" of the 15, which should help prevent the cueball from travelling uptable too much. that would probably be my choice, using a bit of left english to help make the ball as well as giving the cueball some assistance in "climbing" out of the stack.
stunning the cueball into the stack could have dire consequences, too, i think. you could hit the top of the 3, sending you uptable (as i did on another breakshot in this video) or you could contact the 3 flush and stick to the stack (another of my favorite tricks).
if you have ever seen joe tucker's instructional videos, he always seems to hit this sort of shot with inside english (right in this case) and draw. the ball goes to the side rail and kicks to the center of the table, perfectly under control. makes me sick to watch it, lol.
in any event, i wouldn't look for a big yield on this shot. i'd be pleased with dragging whitey away from the pile, breaking out three or four bals. that might just be because my expectations are so low, given my history on break balls of this sort.
i'd be interested to hear what some more accomplished players would say on the subject
thanks, jim
good question and illustration. as i said, my performance on this type of shot is pretty poor, so i may not be the one to ask, but i'll venture my opinion.
firstly, i'd rule out a follow stroke. i would feel as though the chances of scratching in the corner were too great. seems like if it doesn't go directly into the corner, one of the bals in the stack comes free to provide a perfect carom for the scratch.
from the lines drawn, it appears as though a draw stroke would give you a contact point with the "underside" of the 15, which should help prevent the cueball from travelling uptable too much. that would probably be my choice, using a bit of left english to help make the ball as well as giving the cueball some assistance in "climbing" out of the stack.
stunning the cueball into the stack could have dire consequences, too, i think. you could hit the top of the 3, sending you uptable (as i did on another breakshot in this video) or you could contact the 3 flush and stick to the stack (another of my favorite tricks).
if you have ever seen joe tucker's instructional videos, he always seems to hit this sort of shot with inside english (right in this case) and draw. the ball goes to the side rail and kicks to the center of the table, perfectly under control. makes me sick to watch it, lol.
in any event, i wouldn't look for a big yield on this shot. i'd be pleased with dragging whitey away from the pile, breaking out three or four bals. that might just be because my expectations are so low, given my history on break balls of this sort.
i'd be interested to hear what some more accomplished players would say on the subject
thanks, jim
Jim and Dennis:
I made this diagram specifically to make a point. I was responding to Jim saying originally, and repeating above, that he would rule out a follow shot:
I think follow is the best choice in this situation. The trick is you have to know where the cue ball is going to contact the rack. There is a rule of thumb we all know that you hit draw on a shallow break (as I have diagrammed), and follow on a sharper angle. Conventional wisdom says you will scratch with follow on a shallow break. However, if you know where the cue ball is going, then you CANNOT scratch when hitting the high side of any ball. When you hit the pack it is like hitting a wall, so stun will cause the cue ball to bounce back in the direction it came from.
The only way I could see a problem with follow is on a slow table or sticky conditions. You have a shallow break so a lot of the energy will be lost to the object ball. If the table is fast, I'd use follow and a firm hit to drive the cue ball through the middle of the pack. For a slower table, I'd hit just above center to get some bounce back and then park the cue ball. Too much follow on a slow table and you might get stuck in a cluster.
The more angle you have on this shot (as in not so shallow) the more follow I'd use because the cue ball will have more energy and will make a b-line for the head rail. Also, at least on my table, I get the best breaks when going into that second ball from the top. I can move out 7 to 10 balls with a medium stroke.
I think this can be tricky because so much depends on the speed of the shot. With a firm hit, which I think you need here, the cue ball goes along the tangent line no matter what you put on the cue ball (well, ok, maybe you can change the angle just a little). If you want to play a more defensive break shot and play for a shot on the 14 in the side, then this might work. I guess in that case if you are soft stroking it you can even draw into the top of the 3 accidentally and still not move too far. Why bother though, I still think follow is best.
I have his book around somewhere but I might have to get the video. Tony Robles likes this shot as well, but it won't work very easily on my table, which seems to play a lot slower than tables in pool halls. If I'm going into the bottom side of the 3 ball I like high inside english to bring the cue ball out to the middle of the table where I can see the balls that were broken away from the rack. It doesn't seem to get caromed into a scratch on this ball. To me, that seems to happen more if I'm hitting the bottom of the top or third balls oddly enough. What does happen is it caroms off the 3, then scrapes into the 13 below it and follows around the corner.
Me too, but I don't think they will see this discussion based on the title of the thread. The good thing is you can try it out on the pool table and see what works.
I made this diagram specifically to make a point. I was responding to Jim saying originally, and repeating above, that he would rule out a follow shot:
I think follow is the best choice in this situation. The trick is you have to know where the cue ball is going to contact the rack. There is a rule of thumb we all know that you hit draw on a shallow break (as I have diagrammed), and follow on a sharper angle. Conventional wisdom says you will scratch with follow on a shallow break. However, if you know where the cue ball is going, then you CANNOT scratch when hitting the high side of any ball. When you hit the pack it is like hitting a wall, so stun will cause the cue ball to bounce back in the direction it came from.
The only way I could see a problem with follow is on a slow table or sticky conditions. You have a shallow break so a lot of the energy will be lost to the object ball. If the table is fast, I'd use follow and a firm hit to drive the cue ball through the middle of the pack. For a slower table, I'd hit just above center to get some bounce back and then park the cue ball. Too much follow on a slow table and you might get stuck in a cluster.
The more angle you have on this shot (as in not so shallow) the more follow I'd use because the cue ball will have more energy and will make a b-line for the head rail. Also, at least on my table, I get the best breaks when going into that second ball from the top. I can move out 7 to 10 balls with a medium stroke.
I think this can be tricky because so much depends on the speed of the shot. With a firm hit, which I think you need here, the cue ball goes along the tangent line no matter what you put on the cue ball (well, ok, maybe you can change the angle just a little). If you want to play a more defensive break shot and play for a shot on the 14 in the side, then this might work. I guess in that case if you are soft stroking it you can even draw into the top of the 3 accidentally and still not move too far. Why bother though, I still think follow is best.
I have his book around somewhere but I might have to get the video. Tony Robles likes this shot as well, but it won't work very easily on my table, which seems to play a lot slower than tables in pool halls. If I'm going into the bottom side of the 3 ball I like high inside english to bring the cue ball out to the middle of the table where I can see the balls that were broken away from the rack. It doesn't seem to get caromed into a scratch on this ball. To me, that seems to happen more if I'm hitting the bottom of the top or third balls oddly enough. What does happen is it caroms off the 3, then scrapes into the 13 below it and follows around the corner.
Me too, but I don't think they will see this discussion based on the title of the thread. The good thing is you can try it out on the pool table and see what works.
hi dan,
i guess you're right, we aren't going to get a lot more comment. too bad
in any case, i still would stick to my guns on this one, while conceding that there are cases where the rule of thumb to which you alluded can and should be broken.
i am not confident enough in my ability to "read" the point of contact, cue ball to racked balls, to deviate from the rule very often, however.
i will be setting this up for testing when i play next, for my own curiosity.
i truly hope you are right, because i'd like nothing better than to play fewer draw break shots.
best regards, jim
i guess you're right, we aren't going to get a lot more comment. too bad
in any case, i still would stick to my guns on this one, while conceding that there are cases where the rule of thumb to which you alluded can and should be broken.
i am not confident enough in my ability to "read" the point of contact, cue ball to racked balls, to deviate from the rule very often, however.
i will be setting this up for testing when i play next, for my own curiosity.
i truly hope you are right, because i'd like nothing better than to play fewer draw break shots.
best regards, jim
JMO,
this particular breakshot i hit more as a low punch shot. so you get the power of the break with little CB movement. just enough to get me back in the center.
I think what alot of us do here is try to get the most of the break, and way overstroke it.
and follow can be used on this break as long as you dont hit a force follow. a gentle follow works to open open balls below the rack and you play shape underneath to have an available shot to lead to a secondary break.
-Steve
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Steve - It's hard to show on Cuetable, but I was trying to illustrate a shallow break shot that hits the top of the 3. You can't get to the bottom of the table with the cue ball from this position. The best you can do is go THROUGH the pack. Because of the shallow angle, you probably won't make it through enough and might get caught up, unless you have a fast table. I was trying to illustrate that IF YOU KNOW where the cue ball is going into the pack, you don't have to be nervous about a scratch.