I was practising today, basically rolling out 11 balls and potting in rotation order (harder than 9ball easier than 15ball rotation). I was playing "ok" but near the end of my practise sesion I deciding to concentrate on using no english at all, only using center ball hit (top or draw as well) to get posiiton. My runouts increased straight away, sometimes 4 runouts in a row. Does this mean that all along I have been missing mainly due to english and not lining up. I was surprised how easy the pots were when I knew that I could hit with no english and get the cvueball enaerly anywhere on the table.
No English - improvement
- Thread starter laser2507
- Start date
Funny
It is a funny thing that you have said this, because my wife picked up on this imediately when I came back from pool school. They taught us the whole idea of where the ball comes off the tangent line if you use top spin, or draw. They didn't go into english at all (This is in the expert course that I will take later.) So for the last few months I have been using top spin and draw to get most of my possition on the table. I have only used english on extreme shots, like when a ball is frozen on the rail. What I have found is a I am becoming much more consistent. That doesn't mean that I can't make a shot with english, but what it tells me is this. Most of the shots I was shooting with english didn't need it. About the only time you really need english is for cue ball possition. There are very few shots where enlish will actually help you pocket the ball. Also, the cue ball is much more easy to control without english. Meaning it is much more predictible to tell where the cue ball is going to end up after the shot.
That is just my thoughts on the whole thing, but it doesn't mean anyone will agree with me in here. LOL
It is a funny thing that you have said this, because my wife picked up on this imediately when I came back from pool school. They taught us the whole idea of where the ball comes off the tangent line if you use top spin, or draw. They didn't go into english at all (This is in the expert course that I will take later.) So for the last few months I have been using top spin and draw to get most of my possition on the table. I have only used english on extreme shots, like when a ball is frozen on the rail. What I have found is a I am becoming much more consistent. That doesn't mean that I can't make a shot with english, but what it tells me is this. Most of the shots I was shooting with english didn't need it. About the only time you really need english is for cue ball possition. There are very few shots where enlish will actually help you pocket the ball. Also, the cue ball is much more easy to control without english. Meaning it is much more predictible to tell where the cue ball is going to end up after the shot.
That is just my thoughts on the whole thing, but it doesn't mean anyone will agree with me in here. LOL
yep
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T
Timberly
Guest
Shortly after Hillbilly showed Shawn Putnam how to play using the center cue ball, Shawn went from being a regional player to a pro player... Shawn had been winning on the Viking tour but never doing well in the UPA events. The next thing you know, Shawn won the 1st two UPA events back to back. He swears it was using the center cue ball method that catapulted him to where he is... he's traded 1st & 2nd place with Johnny Archer since his 1st UPA win back in Feb of '05.laser2507 said:
Kudos to Charlie for sharing info and helping out another player.
yeah i remember reading an article about putnam and he was saying he wished he'd learned to concentrate on centerball earlier, he would be ahead of his game by 5 years. I use very little english in my game, I plan my runouts and get try and get the proper angles......i mean pretty much anything you can do with left and right you can do with a better angle and top or bottom. Dont get me wrong.....you need to english in your toolbox, but using it when you dont need it increases your odd of missing a runout as laser can attest to.
Allison Fisher
I always hear that Allison Fisher very rarely uses english, well except the funny kind she talks.
She seems to struggle along pretty well without it.
Hu
I always hear that Allison Fisher very rarely uses english, well except the funny kind she talks.
She seems to struggle along pretty well without it.Hu
If you change your position game, you can survive without english. If you want to use a little...... you dont have to be way out on the edge of the ball, 1/2 a tip to a full tip will usually get you where you want to go, without deflecting a whole bunch in the process. I know for myself, that most shots I miss, are misjudged aiming. And that is 95% of the time a misjudging of deflection when using english. If Im playing serious, the amount of sidespin I use seriously decreases, and I try to play the balls off the table with none if I can.
There used to be a huge difference in philosiphies between the east coast players, and the west coast players about sidespin, but now everybody seems to be losing the "speed stroking" attitude about running whitey all over the table, and playing a little tighter positions.
Chuck
There used to be a huge difference in philosiphies between the east coast players, and the west coast players about sidespin, but now everybody seems to be losing the "speed stroking" attitude about running whitey all over the table, and playing a little tighter positions.
Chuck
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txplshrk said:
Well, they SHOULD agree with you, because this knowledge you "learned" at pool school is BASIC POOL 101. It continues to amaze me, as an instructor, how many students overuse, or misuse sidespin, when it is not necessary to use it at all (for MANY shots)! The biggest problem that I find, is that many players learn to play, using sidespin frequently on most, or every shot. Consequently they never learn how to manuever the CB without it. Still today, one of the most misunderstood truths about pool, is that TOP and BOTTOM (on the vertical axis) make the CB curve...NOT sidespin (english). English has a dramatic effect on the CB after contact with a rail, but not on the tangent line of the shot, unless top and/or bottom are added to the english. Every expert player knows at least six different ways to shoot the same shot, to get to the same basic position area (choices include with and without sidespin). They can execute any of them confidantly, at will. Which one they choose, depends on the table layout, and their mood at the moment.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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i had a drill on where i would pocket all the balls on the table using nothing but right spin then do the same with left spin. So i know how to pocket the balls with english and sometimes get in the feel of spinning the balls in. But i agree you can get anywhere on the table using no english, if you have the correct angle. But i like to spin the balls in personally.
Scott Lee said:
I rarely use more than 1/2 - 1 tip of english for most of my shots. However, on cut shots doesn't outside english counteract the effect of throw when the cue ball contacts the object ball?
I think it's great to master centerball, but if you do it too much, you will be afraid of using sidespin. Using sidespin for position is necessary on some shots. The pros use alot of it because they play perfect position, they like to get closer to the balls. If you just stick with centerball, and don't practice using sidespin, chances are you are gonna make a mistake when it's necessary to use it. Don't forget that sidespin is often necessary to use when playing safety shots. You still have to hit a contact point when playing safe.
I gues if you looked at my game you might see me on the edge of the cueball at times. I notice when I play rotation games I spin the ball a lot more than when playing 14.1 or 1 pocket.
If I had to do it over I believe I would have learned with more of a center ball theory, then moved to using side spin.
On a similar note....does the term "english" bother anyone else? I don't know why it's called english?....maybe they used side spin first? anyway it bothers me for some strange reason. People in the UK use the term "spin" right?
Gerry
If I had to do it over I believe I would have learned with more of a center ball theory, then moved to using side spin.
On a similar note....does the term "english" bother anyone else? I don't know why it's called english?....maybe they used side spin first? anyway it bothers me for some strange reason. People in the UK use the term "spin" right?
Gerry
Permanent solutions???
That reminds me of the fact that I have "solved" the problem of coming up off the shot (Jumping up) about 6 times, each time thinking to myself, "Wow, this is great, now I am PAST that problem!" And yet, most of the time when I miss an important shot in a match, it's because I came up off the shot.Nostroke said:
Opinions
Its good to have al these views and informational posts being posted.
I do think that maybe it was 90% mental. Maybe I was concentrating more... I mean, I have played perfectly before using "TOO" much sidespin etc..
This game amazes me, Im still trying to find MY game, but I keep changing it, (stroke mainly) and each time I think, oh thats it, Ive found it. Then I play awful and change again LOL
I need to get back to my natural game, but its been a long time, pool will forever be my friend and my enemy. It sure plays games with my brain.
Its good to have al these views and informational posts being posted.
I do think that maybe it was 90% mental. Maybe I was concentrating more... I mean, I have played perfectly before using "TOO" much sidespin etc..
This game amazes me, Im still trying to find MY game, but I keep changing it, (stroke mainly) and each time I think, oh thats it, Ive found it. Then I play awful and change again LOL
I need to get back to my natural game, but its been a long time, pool will forever be my friend and my enemy. It sure plays games with my brain.
PoolSharkAllen said:
Yes, but to a lesser degree on very thin cuts. On very thin cuts it seems like outside or inside English reduces throw vs. center ball. ( I would really like to see this on a high speed camera.)
The deflection and curve can be the major consideration.
I'm going to print this thread and cram it down my 15 year-old son's throat! ;-) He discovered English a while back and now impresses pool hall groupies while losing money.
English is pool's second language. Practice keeps you fluent for those rare occasions when you need it, but fluency in the native tongue is more useful in everyday life.
English is pool's second language. Practice keeps you fluent for those rare occasions when you need it, but fluency in the native tongue is more useful in everyday life.
It used to be that every 6-9 months or so, my game would drop right into the toilet. I realized that I would progressively use more and more english. When I would figure it out, I would go back to centerball, and start the process all over again. Then, I read a little article that the Miz did in the APA magazine. He said that you could play an entire game, and win, playing strictly centerball. And he was right. I try to avoid sidespin whenever possible....I will, however, use draw and follow to get shape. But I am primarily a centerball shooter. It has made me a much, much better long shot player. It has also made me one heckuva 'railrunner' as I have been called...Lol.
I had a gal on my team last year...actually there were two, but....she insisted on using english on every single shot, and would get frustrated because she was not potting the balls. I told her that she needed to learn what she could and couldn't do with the cueball shooting centerball before she would have a clear understanding of what she could do with a little spin added. I wasn't the only one telling her this. She just wouldn't do it, and her game is pretty much at a standstill now. I said all the same things to the other gal, but then her idiot husband told her I didn't know what I was talking about and for her to do it his way...well, hell, I am not going to force anyone to improve their game!
Lisa
I had a gal on my team last year...actually there were two, but....she insisted on using english on every single shot, and would get frustrated because she was not potting the balls. I told her that she needed to learn what she could and couldn't do with the cueball shooting centerball before she would have a clear understanding of what she could do with a little spin added. I wasn't the only one telling her this. She just wouldn't do it, and her game is pretty much at a standstill now. I said all the same things to the other gal, but then her idiot husband told her I didn't know what I was talking about and for her to do it his way...well, hell, I am not going to force anyone to improve their game!
Lisa