No-ferrule shaft abused on purpose?
- Thread starter Hierovision
- Start date
Hangemhigh, and my discussion as to the necessity of using a ferrel on a cue shaft, both contain valid points.
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I'm quite aware of the history behind the ferrule , thanks.
What I'm asking Hangem is , he's stating that his shaft is high performance , that it's ferrule-less design is worth the trade off of strength for that performance. Yet , it seems to be agreed upon by most that the weight difference is negligable. So I ask , if it's not for weight reduction and not for additional 'feel' , then why would one NOT use a ferrule ? What then is gained ?
Video demonstrating spin benefits of a ferrule-less shaft?
Folks:
I'm not sure if this adds anything (value-wise) to the original poster's question, but here's an interesting video of Bob Jewett executing the famed "impossible 90-degree cut-shot" (object ball on the spot, cue ball in one of the corner pockets close to that spot, and cutting the object ball into the opposite corner pocket).
"90-degree 'impossible' pool cut-shot by Bob Jewett":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok
In the video, you can see close-ups of Bob's ferrule-less cue shaft. Not sure if it has a pad between the leather tip and the wood surface, but there's definitely no ferrule.
Perhaps Bob himself can elaborate?
-Sean
Folks:
I'm not sure if this adds anything (value-wise) to the original poster's question, but here's an interesting video of Bob Jewett executing the famed "impossible 90-degree cut-shot" (object ball on the spot, cue ball in one of the corner pockets close to that spot, and cutting the object ball into the opposite corner pocket).
"90-degree 'impossible' pool cut-shot by Bob Jewett":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok
In the video, you can see close-ups of Bob's ferrule-less cue shaft. Not sure if it has a pad between the leather tip and the wood surface, but there's definitely no ferrule.
Perhaps Bob himself can elaborate?
-Sean
I'm quite aware of the history behind the ferrule , thanks.
What I'm asking Hangem is , he's stating that his shaft is high performance , that it's ferrule-less design is worth the trade off of strength for that performance. Yet , it seems to be agreed upon by most that the weight difference is negligable. So I ask , if it's not for weight reduction and not for additional 'feel' , then why would one NOT use a ferrule ? What then is gained ?
In my opinion, there is no appreciable gain. Further, I don't believe a player can 'feel' anything at the tip end either, unless something is mechanically wrong.
I'm quite aware of the history behind the ferrule , thanks.
What I'm asking Hangem is , he's stating that his shaft is high performance , that it's ferrule-less design is worth the trade off of strength for that performance. Yet , it seems to be agreed upon by most that the weight difference is negligable. So I ask , if it's not for weight reduction and not for additional 'feel' , then why would one NOT use a ferrule ? What then is gained ?
RR, there is no trade off, the strength is there, as well as the performance. If anything, our solid Maple shafts are stronger than laminated shafts.
I can't answer your question because it is based on a false premise.
Those that state opinions about weight difference do so without facts, just supposition. There are factors they do not include in their hypothesis, so their conclusion is flawed.
I am sure you have read testimonials about our shafts, hard evidence something special is going on with the ferrule-less design. If you haven't, take a minute to search with the keywords "cash" and "ferrule-less". Read the reviews from respected members that give a brutally honest review of any cue or shaft they try.
Then get one in your hands, put it through it's paces, and see for yourself what others are talking about.
I have two of these, and they are damn fine shafts. Do the research that Tommy suggests to see opinions of those who own & have used them, and have shared them with others. Let's face it... If you're looking for Nirvana in a cue shaft - you're probably going to remain inconsolable. But if you want to try something that represents a cutting edge, a penultimate combination of feel, quality, & performance in a cue shaft made by, and representative of, a group of people with a wealth of experience in what is required to produce excellence - understanding that the term "best there is" will always remain relative - then here is your chance to find out for yourself.
I don't break with mine... don't jump with them either. Don't know why I would want to when I have invested in high quality tools for those purposes.
My own direct opinion about these shafts is available in the posts hangemhigh refers to.
I don't break with mine... don't jump with them either. Don't know why I would want to when I have invested in high quality tools for those purposes.
My own direct opinion about these shafts is available in the posts hangemhigh refers to.
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I'm not making assumptions on strength , just asking based on what you've already stated. This sounds pretty clear.
It's easy to show that certain ferrules do not add additional weight to a shaft. There are quite a few materials in use out there from actual wood to the polymer like that Predator uses either equaling or under weighing wood alone. And there are obviously ways to displace any additional ferrule weight making the arguement a wash or worse.
None of the other manufacturers are afraid to state what makes thiers "high performance" LD shafts.
So I ask again , please share. Preferably with something besides the buy it and see , that ones just a tad on the weak side.
I'm not making assumptions on strength , just asking based on what you've already stated. This sounds pretty clear.
It's easy to show that certain ferrules do not add additional weight to a shaft. There are quite a few materials in use out there from actual wood to the polymer like that Predator uses either equaling or under weighing wood alone. And there are obviously ways to displace any additional ferrule weight making the arguement a wash or worse.
None of the other manufacturers are afraid to state what makes thiers "high performance" LD shafts.
So I ask again , please share. Preferably with something besides the buy it and see , that ones just a tad on the weak side.
The contentiousness of your post tells me you have no genuine interest in our shafts. But hey, they are not for everyone.
If you look at 3:48, you will see that the object ball is on a pretty weird path, so it is not about the shaft ......................
madfox:
Yes, I "know it is about the spin, that makes the ball take that pretty weird path." Certainly, it takes a tremendous amount of spin to throw the object ball backwards by that amount, especially like at one point, where Bob actually got the object ball to cut more than 90 degrees. My point, though, was whether a ferrule-less shaft helps apply that kind of spin, with less deflection/swerve, so that one can be more accurate with his/her aim?
Regardless, this is an interesting topic. Would welcome trying a ferrule-less shaft one day, just for giggles.
-Sean
None of the other manufacturers are afraid to state what makes thiers "high performance" LD shafts.
So I ask again , please share. Preferably with something besides the buy it and see , that ones just a tad on the weak side.
Most of what the manufactures offer is marketing hype and straight up BS!
From personal use and experience a ferrule-less tipped shaft has more control, less deflection, and higher performance than the same shaft and tip with a common ferrule.
The ONLY reason a ferrule was used on a cue to start with was for protection of the wooden end.
It is not needed or required on a player cue.
In fact with a carbon fiber pad like OB cues uses there is no reason you could not slam the balls as hard as you wanted with no ill effect other than tip compression.
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Wow , your quite the salesman.
It pretty easy to throw around the term 'high performance' but not as easy to know what that actually means I guess.
I didn't realize talking about your product was so difficult and/or intrusive. I do apologise for asking.
Your right then, I suppose it's not for me or at least so far you can't give me a single reason why its any different than any other stick of wood. That's a little strange but ok.
Oh well. Thanks anyway.
I built a shaft with no ferrule for a friend of mine. Before delivering it, I took it out for a "test run" to make sure it would hold up ok. I broke the rack as hard as I could about 9 or 10 times. If it was going to break, I wanted to be the one to break it. I am pleased to say that it held up fine. Does this mean it will never break? No, but it did hold up to my "intentional abuse" for one afternoon anyway. Like others, I also used a pad.
Hope this helps,
Josh
Hope this helps,
Josh
Wow , your quite the salesman.
It pretty easy to throw around the term 'high performance' but not as easy to know what that actually means I guess.
I didn't realize talking about your product was so difficult and/or intrusive. I do apologise for asking.
Your right then, I suppose it's not for me or at least so far you can't give me a single reason why its any different than any other stick of wood. That's a little strange but ok.
Oh well. Thanks anyway.
I am the salesman, and the one who engineered our shaft. I am careful to make sure I describe anything about our cues and shafts as accurately as possible. You don't have to believe me when I say our shaft is a high performance Thoroughbred, you can take a dozen others word for it, customers who have actually used our shaft.
There are things I do not share with you unless you have chosen to buy our cues and shafts. I feel if you spend your hard earned money on our products you deserve to know the how's and why's. This is not a courtesy I extend to someone who is never going to buy our products in the first place. You can toss petty insults all you want, I have no time for you, and most assuredly will never be guilty of enlightening you as to what makes our cues and shafts work.
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What do "more control" and "higher performance" mean?
pj
chgo
So I only get to know why it's worth buying after I buy it?
No thanks.
pj
chgo
a lot of missing information
I read this thread and find it a little funny. "Ferule", however someone chooses to spell it, is used to describe and make claims about all ferules. In truth there are almost endless materials to make ferules out of including the pool balls themselves. Ferules can be lighter than the wood, heavier than the wood, stronger than the wood, weaker than the wood, stiffer than the wood, more flexible than the wood, on and on. In addition the adhesive use to hold the ferule on may offset the tiny difference in weight savings of some ferules.
The ferule was developed long before we had the quality adhesives that we have now. The pads we use now serve the same purpose the ferule once did, to keep the wood from splintering. Note that ivory ferules normally have a pad installed to prevent them from splintering.
Ferules are decorative, they may help us aim by giving us an easier to see point to focus on, and they can be chosen to serve a purpose, mostly giving a softer hit. A hard ferule stiffens the hit compared to a soft ferule but I'm pretty skeptical of a hard ferule and 29" of wood giving an detectibly stiffer hit than 30" of the same wood. What the hard ferule may do is change the sound of the hit a little.
I will be building myself a handful of shafts once my shop is complete. Some will be with only a pad, some will be with very short ferules, and some will be with longer soft ferules to deliberately absorb some of the impact of the hit. I have used hard ferules for several years and I feel all I gain from them is a noise that some people like but I have never been a fan of.
Hu
I read this thread and find it a little funny. "Ferule", however someone chooses to spell it, is used to describe and make claims about all ferules. In truth there are almost endless materials to make ferules out of including the pool balls themselves. Ferules can be lighter than the wood, heavier than the wood, stronger than the wood, weaker than the wood, stiffer than the wood, more flexible than the wood, on and on. In addition the adhesive use to hold the ferule on may offset the tiny difference in weight savings of some ferules.
The ferule was developed long before we had the quality adhesives that we have now. The pads we use now serve the same purpose the ferule once did, to keep the wood from splintering. Note that ivory ferules normally have a pad installed to prevent them from splintering.
Ferules are decorative, they may help us aim by giving us an easier to see point to focus on, and they can be chosen to serve a purpose, mostly giving a softer hit. A hard ferule stiffens the hit compared to a soft ferule but I'm pretty skeptical of a hard ferule and 29" of wood giving an detectibly stiffer hit than 30" of the same wood. What the hard ferule may do is change the sound of the hit a little.
I will be building myself a handful of shafts once my shop is complete. Some will be with only a pad, some will be with very short ferules, and some will be with longer soft ferules to deliberately absorb some of the impact of the hit. I have used hard ferules for several years and I feel all I gain from them is a noise that some people like but I have never been a fan of.
Hu