no he wasnt!

tap tap tap

Thecoats said:
I think Jay should have been more sensitive and I am sure he wishes he had said something more like "hearing impaired" I have a lot of respect for Jay but in this one incident he came of a bit insensitive, oh well if you sit in front of a mic long enough you are probably going to say a few things you wish you could take back. Otherwise nice job Jay, Jerry and Jim on the commentary. It sure beat the hell out of that one British dude that gets so damn overly excited when someone makes a hanger:D :D

-don
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tap tap tap!
 
whoever said what (somebody said it was Jay) cut em some slack nobody meant any offense. i myself am pretty ignorant to this subject. all i know is deaf people's speech is usually not as 'good' or 'normal' as others simply because they can't hear themselves talk.

all i would be concerned about is him trying to adapt his awesome break to these new rules in the mosconi cup!
 
Here's the deal:
I realized Shane was hearing impaired when he was 1 yr old. He wasn't responding to noises like he should have. The doctors did not believe me at first, but finally he got his hearing aids when he was 17 months old. His hearing loss was,(unaided) in his left ear he could hear at 80 dB and his right ear 85 dB. A normal conversation is at 40 dB. After he got his hearing aids he was like a sponge. He walked around for a month with his eye as wide as saucers, listening to everything. At 2 years old, Shane started in a hearing impaired program where they worked with him on speech. He was in a special program, but mainstreamed in the public school district, through his graduating of high school. When he was in elemantary school they(the school district) wanted to have Shane use an FM system in the class rooms. What I noticed at that time was that the other hearing impaired children were not speaking as well when they used the FM system because they had the teachers words going straight into their hearing aids and thus they were not utilizing their natural abilities to read lips and form words. The Fm system impaired their speech more. I did not let Shane us it. He had to work harder to hear and he learned how to read lips. He also got a little behind at that time. When Shane was tested in high school, he was at 60dB, left ear, and 75 dB in the right ear. Shanes hearing hadn't improved but his ability to us what he had improved. When Shane speaks and listens, he still misses some of those quieter parts of speech, you can hear that in his speech and see it in his writing. But, on the other side, Shane's ability to watch and pick up, anything is unbelievable. Like the way he became the state casting Champion at 14, he had never done it before, he watched and won and then went on to take second in the nationals. He is also able to tune out "things"while he's playing , Which we all wish we could do. Now Shane wears one hearing aid, he doesn't like the idea of being handicapped but is accepting of it. The fun part, be careful of what you say in a room with Shane, he can look across a room and read your lips.
 
av84fun said:
There is no way that Jay intended to insult Shane. That phrase is now not preferred by the hearing impaired but few of us have the occasion to relate to such people except rarely and it is a little difficult to keep up with the preferred description.

The phrase of "deaf and dumb" dates all the way back to Aristotle (I think) who thought that deaf people were unable to learn. But LATER the word "dumb" in that context simply meant "unable to speak" which is where the term "dumb animal" came from. That phrase does not mean "stupid animal" just that the lower animals can't articulate human speech.

And as I stated above, technically, EVERY infant is born "mute"...since one proper definition is "Unable to speak." Children only become capable of human speech from LISTENING to it.

And what Jay certainly meant was that Shane was so profoundly deaf at birth that he lacked the ability to hear human speech.

There is NO WAY he meant to be rude.

Regards,
Jim
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obviously he didn't intend to be rude but you have to admit that Shane wouldn't like to hear himself referred to as a "deaf mute". He should've known better, either way it was an honest mistake I'm sure.
 
Thecoats said:
I think Jay should have been more sensitive and I am sure he wishes he had said something more like "hearing impaired" I have a lot of respect for Jay but in this one incident he came of a bit insensitive, oh well if you sit in front of a mic long enough you are probably going to say a few things you wish you could take back. Otherwise nice job Jay, Jerry and Jim on the commentary. It sure beat the hell out of that one British dude that gets so damn overly excited when someone makes a hanger:D :D

-don
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So what is it these days...Black or Afro-American or African American ?(first, THEY need to decide since I hear them using all of the above when referring to themselves).

And how about Indian...American Indian...Native American...???

That is ALL pop-culture stuff that has changed over time and will change again. Jay was NOT ridiculing SVB and in fact, if anything, he was praising him for overcoming his handicap...ooops..."handicap" is improper these days...I meant "impairment."

Accusing Jay of being "insensitive" is just flat a bad rap.
Regards,
Jim
 
I left out other talking things. Shane started talking a month after he got his hearing aids. He did speak differently. He called me, Timi, "Shimmy" (until he was 12), grandpa was bumpa, those were a couple of the cute ones. He would sound hearing impaired and was very self consious about it as he grew up. His little sister actually learned alot from Shane when she started talking and sounded more hearing impaired than Shane, and she didn't have a hearin loss. Shane never wanted to learn sign language because he didn't want to be handicapped. For the hearing loss Shane's speech is wonderful. At first, some people don't even realize he is impaired at all. And that is all Shane is, is a little impaired to all of you people who do not look at him when you talk to him or maybe YOU speak too soft. :)

I'm typing impared by the way!
 
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As a hearing impaired person, I'm sensitive to the term deaf-mute as it's used. But I know Jay and have practiced with him, and he is a geninuely nice guy who I'm sure used a term without much thought behind it. I am cutting him slack in this as I know the person behind the words. We are all learning something new everyday in term of how to get along with everyone else and to better ourselves, and this include communicating as well. :p

BTW, av84fun wrote very articulately about the process that a hearing impaired person goes through to learn speech. I had to sit in front of a mirror and have my mother (who since has passed away) tell me what to do with the tongue while making various sounds. My speech isn't perfect, but I'm able to get my concepts across and have advanced at work into management levels so I guess enough people understand me :p

anyway, how about that USA team !! go USA ! :D
 
Neil said:
... My question is- do you have any problem with someone saying someone is deaf, or do you find it offensive?
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Speaking for myself, I personally do not have a problem with the word. Sometimes I say hearing-impaired, but other times, I say deaf. There are all degrees of deafness so I'm included into that. I do know some hearing-impaired people who do not like the word deaf as it carries with it all kind of connotations. Some words are taken by other segments of the population and loaded with connotations to the point they become stigmatized. But I don't have a problem with the word in my case. Good question really. ;)
 
TorranceChris said:
As a hearing impaired person, I'm sensitive to the term deaf-mute as it's used. But I know Jay and have practiced with him, and he is a geninuely nice guy who I'm sure used a term without much thought behind it. I am cutting him slack in this as I know the person behind the words. We are all learning something new everyday in term of how to get along with everyone else and to better ourselves, and this include communicating as well. :p

BTW, av84fun wrote very articulately about the process that a hearing impaired person goes through to learn speech. I had to sit in front of a mirror and have my mother (who since has passed away) tell me what to do with the tongue while making various sounds. My speech isn't perfect, but I'm able to get my concepts across and have advanced at work into management levels so I guess enough people understand me :p

anyway, how about that USA team !! go USA ! :D
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THANKS Chris. In addition to my own hearing loss, among my other imperfections is that I am 63 and 5'9" when I would vastly prefer to be 59 and 6'3". !

So I DO hope that the more sensitve people will refer to me as "height challenged" and "age impaired."

Seriously though, what is disgusting is when people ridicule those who have serious impairments when, in fact, we should all realize that life is tough enough even for unchallenged people and that we should do what we can to HELP and not attempt to boost our own egos by belittling others.

But holding someone's feet to the fire by using a phrase that has been replaced with another phrase in the current culture but with NO intention of being rude or thougtless is just way off base.

Possibly Shane's Mom could comment on whether Shane would care one way or the other.

And HUGE congratulations to his Mom for recognizing Shane's condition very early and DOING A LOT about it. He is a very lucky young man and a SUPER nice guy every time I have had the pleasure of being in his company at tournaments.

God knows that the sport of pool needs more positive role models like Shane and Tony Robles for example.

Regards,
Jim

(-:
 
Yea I heard it and cringed a little but realized instantly it was not trying to be hurtful, Jay just made a booboo.....He's from one generation back when the terms were slightly different.

I cringe A LOT when I'm around my grandparents and the terms they use sometimes :eek:

Gerry
 
SD mom said:
I did not let Shane use it. He had to work harder to hear and he learned how to read lips.
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I'd say you did him a big favor there, teaching him a lesson not only about overcoming hearing impairment, but about overcoming anything. Goes a long way to explain how he's learned to play pool at such an elite level while remaining humble and eager to keep improving. Congratulations on raising him so well.

I'm sure Jay just mis-spoke. He knows Shane can speak. Also, I didn't know the term deaf-mute was considered offensive (although I knew it wasn't accurate in this case), and I'm only 26, and have worked closely with a hearing impaired person. She reads lips and speaks intelligibly as well, although I'd say she's a little harder to understand than Shane.

-Andrew
 
I met Shane in Manila and would never say he is hearing impaired unless I noticed the device in his ear. Frankly, I mistook that for South Dakota accent... He speaks wonderful for a man who was born deaf, and understands everything. Sometimes he is a bit hard to understand but again, he can repeat if you didn't get him at once. And what I think adds a little to that, he is modest and a bit shy with strangers, so may be it amplifys some when he is replying. When with people he knows good, I always watched Shane communicating with no problems whatsoever.
I'm grateful Shane's Mom shared her story here, that's an expample of great parents who care and strong personalities like Shane and his relatives. Paste my nod here.
 
I found it interesting while watching shane's singles match last night that after he won instead of having him give an interview they got kim davenport in to speak instead!.

I thought this was wrong and shane should have been allowed to give the interview like the rest of his teamates did after their respective wins.

Poor Show by Sky Sports
 
No it is not a bad rap.....

av84fun said:
So what is it these days...Black or Afro-American or African American ?(first, THEY need to decide since I hear them using all of the above when referring to themselves).

And how about Indian...American Indian...Native American...???

That is ALL pop-culture stuff that has changed over time and will change again. Jay was NOT ridiculing SVB and in fact, if anything, he was praising him for overcoming his handicap...ooops..."handicap" is improper these days...I meant "impairment."

Accusing Jay of being "insensitive" is just flat a bad rap.
Regards,
Jim
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If you are paid to express your opinion in a public forum you should take it upon yourself to be aware of societal expressions that are no longer acceptable. I am not killing Jay as he is an awesome commentator and a great guy but I do not think he gets a full pass just because you feel he may have been ignorant about using the term "deaf-mute".

-don
 
SD mom said:
The fun part, be careful of what you say in a room with Shane, he can look across a room and read your lips.
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I know what you mean mrs boening my mother is deaf but by god if i'm not carefull with what I say she's as quick as a cat to pick up on it.

P.S

Shane is a fantastic player, please tell him that this is one scotsman who will be rooting for him.
 
The only time I ever met Shane was in Atlanta for the big Viking Tour event about a year ago. It was when he was beating everybody on that triple shim diamond, even spotting them, and almost nobody wanted any part of him (and that was over a year ago, before he became one of, if not the best player in the world). I was sitting with Corey and he motioned Shane over and he sat with us. Corey was trying to negotiate a game with Shane for later that night. He told Shane he wanted to play him some even and Shane smile and said "why in the world would I play the most feared player here even? If I beat you then who will want to play me after that? " They talked a little more and played later that night. This was before the legend of Shane really took off and before he started winning everything in sight so I had heard of him but really didn't know anything about him. The point of this story is that I had no idea he was hearing impaired and we were in a loud pool room talking softly at a table about matching up. Everything he said was clear and I didn't find out until later about his hearing loss. Putting the fact that he is clearly in a class by himself on the pool table right now, he is also in a class by himself when it comes to the way he carries himself and the way he has persevered and worked hard in all things personal and professional in his life. I wish him continued success and I will most definitely be rooting for him.
 
i have trouble hearing shane during interviews but i think thats because when they interview him he has to look into the camera so its harder for him to read the lips of the commentator. if u watch the reno interviews he didnt seem to understand what he was being asked cuz he had to look at the camera instead of reading the interviewer's lips. so then he just talks quietly into the mic lol...that's probably the safest option. also i think he talks quietly because he cant hear how loud he's talking? im not sure if thats the case but i imagine it would be like listening to music on your earphones then talking to someone. if the music is loud you can easily start shouting your responses without realizing it. i have seen this many times. so i just assumed he talked very quietly cuz he cant tell the volume of his voice. i could be completely wrong about everything tho.
 
Neil said:
Kudo's to you for not taking 'the easy way' with your son, but having the the foresight to look ahead to what would be best for him. Even though it was harder at the time.

Now, I have a serious question for you. You have been involved for your sons' whole life, so you have had some time with it. My question is- do you have any problem with someone saying someone is deaf, or do you find it offensive?

Personally, I see no problem with it, and don't understand why some find it offensive. It is the word I grew up with. All this politically correct stuff seems like nonsense to me. To me, people that can't hear are deaf, people that can't see are blind, people with a very dark skin color are black or Negro. None of those words have any semblance of discrimination or insult to them. They were just fine for many years. Why are they suddenly offensive to some?
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I'm not ashamed of Shane's hearing loss. He isn't deaf, but impaired. He is considered to have a severe to profound hearing loss. I don't think that the term deaf is offensive, it just means that someone isn't familiar with a hearing loss situation, as in Shane's case. When someone wears glasses you don't usually refer to them as blind, in fact you don't usually say anything. I haven't heard anyone talk about the guy with glasses, " how amazing that blind guy was when he ran out". The difference is Shane's physical deficiency with his hearing is actually what makes him so good. His "lack of" gives him his ability beyond just natural talent.
Shane on the other hand seems to minimize the situation, he's accepting but at the same time he only wears one hearing aid, he should be wearing two. He doesn't like it to stand out. I guess, no one likes to walk around in public with their faults emphasized. I wear baggy clothes when I gain 5 lbs. :rolleyes:
 
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