I agree with this, except I don't beleive everyone can become a A player reguardless of how much they play, or how many lessons they get. I can give examples of many many people I personally know who have played as much or more pool than most and never made it past a B level. I would love to see some examples of someone who's played at a low B level for many years and then makes it to a high A level.
No holy grail?
- Thread starter tucson9ball
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I agree with this, except I don't beleive everyone can become a A player reguardless of how much they play, or how many lessons they get. I can give examples of many many people I personally know who have played as much or more pool than most and never made it past a B level. I would love to see some examples of someone who's played at a low B level for many years and then makes it to a high A level.
Not everyone can become an A player no matter how much they practice. You see this at the pool hall: guys who have been playing every day for 50 years and still play the same as they did way back when.
Many moons ago a player at my local room came up to me and asked, "If I practiced as much as you would I be as good, or do you need to 'know something?'" And I told him the bad news."You need to know something." And he nodded and walked away saying, "I thought so."
Some of that "something" is: knowing how to learn; creating and testing hypothesizes; being systematic; being able to fractionate a task down to it's smallest components; and having a good memory.
Just flaying away day after day without introspection will not get it.
Lou Figueroa
Playing every day at the pool room is not learning how to play. That's like saying the guy who sits at the cafe every day reading the paper is not ever going to be a good writer.
It's really simple, people who play and practice with the INTENTION of getting better do get better.
Huh? What bad news? He was right, if he practiced as much as you and on the right things then he would be as good as you.
That is correct. And again people who do this get better and people who don't won't get better. This has everything to do with desire and nothing to do with whether a person is capable or not. If a person is physically and mentally fine then they can become a great player. If they are complacent then they will be stagnant.
I think you meant flailing and I agree. And introspection without deliberate action is also worthless.
Then you have to find someone who stopped whatever they were doing and dedicated themselves to playing and learning.
We all talk about this guy or that guy we know who plays as much as we do but doesn't get better but I bet if we REALLY compared the quality and frequency of that "playing" then there might be glaring differences. Just because you see a guy at the pool room all the time when you are there doesn't mean he is putting in quality time.
For example when I lived in Charlotte one day I took Freddie's book to the pool room and got a table and spent about two hours trying out the stuff in it. One by one the regulars drifted over, a few of them glanced at the book, none of them tried any of the shots, no one volunteered to practice with me, they all drifted back to their seats, not playing.
The point is that anecdotally sure we all know that guy who never seems to get better. But what we don't REALLY know is waht he is or isn't doing if and when he practices.
Conversely though we all know that kid who was a B player last year and now he is spotting everyone in the room a year later because he spent all year in the pool room learning from everyone for 8 hours a day. We all talk about how we used to spot him and now we need the 6.
Well, unless you're completely stupid as a person you don't have to be stagnant and proud that you can spot C players the 8 and sad when they pass you a year later. You too can be an A player IF you put in the time and effort to be there instead of parking your butt on the stool and trying to match up in your weight class.
That's what I believe. If anyone wants to bet on their convictions I will take a B player and make him into an A player in one year. Bet $30,000 because that's what it will cost me to finance a middle aged guy's year of learning greatly.
I will take a B player and make him into an A player in one year.
I can "name that tune" in 3 months. :thumbup:
Then you have to find someone who stopped whatever they were doing and dedicated themselves to playing and learning.
We all talk about this guy or that guy we know who plays as much as we do but doesn't get better but I bet if we REALLY compared the quality and frequency of that "playing" then there might be glaring differences. Just because you see a guy at the pool room all the time when you are there doesn't mean he is putting in quality time.
For example when I lived in Charlotte one day I took Freddie's book to the pool room and got a table and spent about two hours trying out the stuff in it. One by one the regulars drifted over, a few of them glanced at the book, none of them tried any of the shots, no one volunteered to practice with me, they all drifted back to their seats, not playing.
The point is that anecdotally sure we all know that guy who never seems to get better. But what we don't REALLY know is waht he is or isn't doing if and when he practices.
Conversely though we all know that kid who was a B player last year and now he is spotting everyone in the room a year later because he spent all year in the pool room learning from everyone for 8 hours a day. We all talk about how we used to spot him and now we need the 6.
Well, unless you're completely stupid as a person you don't have to be stagnant and proud that you can spot C players the 8 and sad when they pass you a year later. You too can be an A player IF you put in the time and effort to be there instead of parking your butt on the stool and trying to match up in your weight class.
That's what I believe. If anyone wants to bet on their convictions I will take a B player and make him into an A player in one year. Bet $30,000 because that's what it will cost me to finance a middle aged guy's year of learning greatly.
I can "name that tune" in 3 months. :thumbup:
I can agree with this. But that person must ask questions about talent and type of practice. As Vince Lombardi said "Practice does not make perfect, only perfect practice makes perfect."
I played everyday for 3 yrs and was stuck on a plateau. I have played significantly less the past 3 months but have broken thru. I could make a decent amount of shots but my position play was garbage. After doing specific target drills instead of just racking 15 balls and pocketing all of them I have improved greatly
What is alot of practice? 2 hours a day or 20 hours a day? "The game is the teacher."
Just my two cents here.......while it is extremely obvious that the ONLY way to get better at pool or for that matter any thing that requires skill is practice and putting that practice to use, aiming systems or other tools make the player better on any level and speed the learning process.
I am an ok player but I found that my progress improved greatly when I took some lessons from people who knew what they were talking about. We need goal oriented practice as well as practical application. Unfortunately for most of us we don't have the time or the commitment that it takes to put in enough practice to be at the pro level.
That being said...pool in my opinion is one of the best hobbies in the world. Even at my level I am drawn in by a great shot or a great game and keep coming back.
I am an ok player but I found that my progress improved greatly when I took some lessons from people who knew what they were talking about. We need goal oriented practice as well as practical application. Unfortunately for most of us we don't have the time or the commitment that it takes to put in enough practice to be at the pro level.
That being said...pool in my opinion is one of the best hobbies in the world. Even at my level I am drawn in by a great shot or a great game and keep coming back.
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that's brilliant
I must say that's brilliant....we used that story in the restaurant business too, and it really sums things up. I can describe in detail several breakthroughs in my career, the most important one was probably when I "real eyesed" that there was always a shot....I just had to know how to look for it.
There's many levels to the top, and I believe anyone can get there, some may just have to train differently, or even more than others. As long as 'The Game is their Teacher' "If it's possible in the world, it's possible for everyone in the world". CJ Wiley
I must say that's brilliant....we used that story in the restaurant business too, and it really sums things up. I can describe in detail several breakthroughs in my career, the most important one was probably when I "real eyesed" that there was always a shot....I just had to know how to look for it.
There's many levels to the top, and I believe anyone can get there, some may just have to train differently, or even more than others. As long as 'The Game is their Teacher' "If it's possible in the world, it's possible for everyone in the world". CJ Wiley
This is for sure Randy. To be honest, I'm not sure what you mean by process, but, I would have thought the proper order of things would be
Process ( if by that we mean to assess a given situation)
Alignment
Aiming (almost the same as alignment in some respects)
Delivery
Speed
Be that as it may, all are certainly necessary to execute a pool shot properly.
IMO anyone who seriously is in search for this magic bullet, needs to investigate the mental part of this fine game.
Practice is the key not only to bettering the physical aspect of the game, but also the MOST IMPORTANT part of the game IMO, the mental side of the game.
Falling into that zone, being able to get so deeply immersed in the moment that you become nothing more than the mechanism that is carrying out what your brain has already accurately envisioned.
Practicing this aspect of the game is not easy however, and in that regard, I think that the game of 9 ball or 10 ball is counterproductive in the practice of the mental game.
I say this because, at some level ( note watching CJ run through 2 racks of 15 ball rotation) .... at some level, these games become finite in their ability to keep you in long periods of deep concentration.
These games are finite in their test of skill once you become a better player, both by the nature of the short term innings each player has, poor rolls that end innings, and simply the overall length of the game. Smashing balls multiple rails is also the slow road to sensitive feel IMO.
Anyone who truly understands the value of practicing the mental dead stroke immersion the game offers should be taking out the other six balls they have thrown under the table and get started on running 50 or 100 balls in straight pool to experience the long term feeling of concentration, or more likely, the inability to achieve it.
How do you practice the all important aspect of the game's requirement to stay focused, when these short rack rotation games are the antithesis of it, both in duration of concentration, and depth of concentration since not only are the innings short, but the balls tell you what to do, what order to shoot in, how to pattern your play.
If anyone is looking for one single factor to improve, look to the mental side of this game, and if you do want to pursue that, you better look away from these short rack bang em up games IMHO.
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Who will you be hiring to give the instruction John?
Also, some players will need hypnosis as well as drills to get the dog out of them. You can't teach that.
I'm willing to bet $30k I can be an A player by year's end too. All I have to do is quit my job and hire some big guy to drag me to my table and force me to spend 8+ hours doing the drills every day.
Also, some players will need hypnosis as well as drills to get the dog out of them. You can't teach that.
I'm willing to bet $30k I can be an A player by year's end too. All I have to do is quit my job and hire some big guy to drag me to my table and force me to spend 8+ hours doing the drills every day.
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I do? I mean .. yeah I guess I do, but that's only cause it is true,and sad to me that today's youth are always looking for the short and easy way and don't want to grind it out. They'd rather buy trick cue sticks and jump over balls. Then they want to have all that nutty stuff help their game.
BTW ... 1 hole ain't so bad either! That game will get both your decision making brain working along with touch and feel for whitey.
"Preparation is all"
Johnny Archer told me at the Mosconi Cup, and I agree "when I want to get in stroke I play rotation games, when I want to work something out I play straight pool".....when he says "work something out, he's talking about the "mental side" too.
Straight Pool helps to organize thoughts, concentration and touch in ways rotation games won't do. At tournaments it's time to just focus on rotation games if that's what you're there for. If you haven't "worked it out" by the time you're at the tournament, there's a good chance you're not going to. "Preparation is all"
I do? I mean .. yeah I guess I do, but that's only cause it is true,and sad to me that today's youth are always looking for the short and easy way and don't want to grind it out. They'd rather buy trick cue sticks and jump over balls. Then they want to have all that nutty stuff help their game.
BTW ... 1 hole ain't so bad either! That game will get both your decision making brain working along with touch and feel for whitey.
Johnny Archer told me at the Mosconi Cup, and I agree "when I want to get in stroke I play rotation games, when I want to work something out I play straight pool".....when he says "work something out, he's talking about the "mental side" too.
Straight Pool helps to organize thoughts, concentration and touch in ways rotation games won't do. At tournaments it's time to just focus on rotation games if that's what you're there for. If you haven't "worked it out" by the time you're at the tournament, there's a good chance you're not going to. "Preparation is all"
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In the end, it is certainly "to each their own". And, after all it is just a game, and we should all play what we enjoy.
I'm just saying, to improve on that ever important mental aspect of the game, overlooking practicing straight pool, is like overlooking an aspirin to cure a headache. :thumbup:
I've only been playing pool for 4 short years. In that 3 year span at one point I was playing 6 days a week for 4 hours or more per day. When I was doing that I played head and shoulders above guys that had been playing for DECADES. That was about 2 years ago. (My kid is 17 months, I think you can figure out what changed.)
Now I practice on my table down stairs 3 times a week if I'm lucky for 1 hour. (Sometimes I don't even get that.) I can't find my way out on a big table with road map, and my ERO rate on a small table is almost non-existent by comparison to what it use to be.
All of the above was done with guidance from several season'd veterans, including TheSleeve, which is HUGE. Having direction in what, and how you practice can be the difference in weak C player to a strong A player. There is nothing wrong with having a guiding hand in your pursuit to get better. Hell, most pro athletes have half a dozen trainers for single aspects of their game.
In short, yes an aiming system can help, and help A LOT. A swing/stroke coach with hours of practice will almost always trump a good aiming system. I've been told since day one a good stroke will beat a good aim 90% of the time.
best,
Justin
Now I practice on my table down stairs 3 times a week if I'm lucky for 1 hour. (Sometimes I don't even get that.) I can't find my way out on a big table with road map, and my ERO rate on a small table is almost non-existent by comparison to what it use to be.
All of the above was done with guidance from several season'd veterans, including TheSleeve, which is HUGE. Having direction in what, and how you practice can be the difference in weak C player to a strong A player. There is nothing wrong with having a guiding hand in your pursuit to get better. Hell, most pro athletes have half a dozen trainers for single aspects of their game.
In short, yes an aiming system can help, and help A LOT. A swing/stroke coach with hours of practice will almost always trump a good aiming system. I've been told since day one a good stroke will beat a good aim 90% of the time.
best,
Justin
I think the the things that separate a pro from a amateur are the mental aspects of the game. Things like being able to focus under pressure, problem solving, the desire to compete and a force of will.
The physical attributes are all learned and become muscle memory. The ability to learn these things faster and preform them consistently is coordination. Now, granted, some people are severely lacking in coordination which means that they will have to work harder to achieve the same level of skill.
All of this leads me to believe that a person can rise to the level of pro with proper guidance and work, how much work and how fast will depend on his innate ability to learn. We are all different.
The physical attributes are all learned and become muscle memory. The ability to learn these things faster and preform them consistently is coordination. Now, granted, some people are severely lacking in coordination which means that they will have to work harder to achieve the same level of skill.
All of this leads me to believe that a person can rise to the level of pro with proper guidance and work, how much work and how fast will depend on his innate ability to learn. We are all different.