No jump cue allowed

[philly]

My spot has a lot of leagues. All these guys/gals have jumpers. Every now-n-then i see a decent shot but most of the time they foul in some fashion. None of these people can kick worth a shit. Won't take the time to learn it.

Kicking is an art.
Using the correct cue ball speed on the kick is half the job.
Playing a lot of 3C gives you an appreciation of the cushions.
The cushions are your friends.
It's all a mind set.

Yeah, most people using jump sticks think it's cool to jump but most are not proficient at it at all.
Don't get me wrong, I have played many guys that were deadly with their jump sticks,
but they are few and far between.

 

[PoolHallPaul]

That's odd... I keep being told in these threads that the jump cue has made the shot ridiculously easy. Even 10 yr olds can pull it off.

I think that if I could expect a 95% return with BIH, I would be buying jump cues in bulk and handing them out prior to every tournament...lol.

I guess this is a regional thing. I might see 20% foul rate due to attempted jump shots against me. That would drop to maybe 5% foul rate when playing against the stronger class.

Easier to get over the ball but still not easy to make.

 

[Black-Balled]

Sorry but this is just funny... I had my 8 yr old daughter successfully make a kick yesterday so I guess that means kick takes next to no skill as well. Did your son make the shot...?

Granted getting over a ball is extremely easy with a jump stick, but that's where the advantage ends. Jumping with aim, with purpose, and controlling the CB after potting the ball, (if that's the goal) is a whole new ball game. Jumping with a player, is a slash and hope proposition. Nothing entertaining or impressive in witnessing desperation.

Yeah

 

[PoolHallPaul]

Im sure you know this but I really dont understand the purpose of a "break cloth", you are still wearing "tracks" in the cloth on the way to the rack and if you "squat the rock" you are adding more burn spots similar to jumping, the only thing you protect is the starting point of the cue ball. A simple piece of paper like a partial note pad sheet also works great for a break cloth

The people do more damage dragging there cues across the cloth than the ball does.

 

[PoolHallPaul]

Yes anyone can make a kick, but it's many times harder to jump with a full cue than to show someone how to make a kick, one is nearly impossible without a lot of practice, it's not hard to show where to hit the ball on a rail. Why don't you try to show your 8 year old how to jump with a full cue and see how long that takes. It's not a matter of kicks being easy, it's a matter or the jump cue making the jump too easy, your example actually shows exactly why, the jump cue makes jumping way too easy compared to the normal full cue jump. There is no special trick to make kicks easier outside of skill and knowledge. Jump cues to kicks would be a cue with a laser sight that you just turn on and it shows you where to hit and with what spin. But jump cues replace skill pretty much fully, kicking is all skill, which you showed your daughter. You can't teach your daughter to jump without a crutch cue, but you can teach her to kick with knowledge. That is why jump cues are crap they replace the skill of the jump with a full cue with the gimmick or a pogo stick.

At the amateur level even getting over the ball to make a good hit is a giant advantage. Ever hear the term that anything is better than ball in hand? The fact that pros can play position off jumps and make the ball is just icing on the cake, not the cake.

There is no situation in which jump cues are good for the game past excitement for people that don't know the game who think "good" players just bank and jump balls all the time.

 

[PoolHallPaul]

If it is so easy to pocket a ball kicking,why don't u kick every shot?

 

[The_JV]

Easier to get over the ball but still not easy to make.

Ya I know... I was making a point about an earlier argument how jump sticks make jump shot easy. Most seem "kickers" in these threads tend ot forget there's more than one aspect to nicely performed jump shot. My take on it, is yes... much easier to get over the ball. However this has allowed the skill in aim and control take the front seat of the "jumping" spectacle.

 

[PoolHallPaul]

Never seen this. No tip?? G10 tips can leave marks but its on the break not a jump.

Probably referring to combination 1 piece tip& ferrule,I would think.

 

[galipeau]

I'm tempted to say that throwing the cueball off is loss of rack, like 1950s bar rules

I was playing at a joint couple years ago. Two kids repeatedly jumped the ball off the table. Third time it happened I force fed them a lesson on hitting center ball as politely as I could. Room owner did nothing but I feel it's just disrespectful at that point. Once is an accident, after that your either a rank amateur or drunk.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[jasonlaus]

Sorry but this is just funny... I had my 8 yr old daughter successfully make a kick yesterday so I guess that means kick takes next to no skill as well. Did your son make the shot...?

Granted getting over a ball is extremely easy with a jump stick, but that's where the advantage ends. Jumping with aim, with purpose, and controlling the CB after potting the ball, (if that's the goal) is a whole new ball game. Jumping with a player, is a slash and hope proposition. Nothing entertaining or impressive in witnessing desperation.

You obviously never learned to jump with a full cue.

 

[David in FL]

I suspect that most of those that hate jump cues because they “take all the skill out of the game“ aren’t very skilled using a jump cue.

 

[Maniac]

I haven't used a jump cue since I quit playing in APA Masters division a couple of years ago. I have a couple nice ones, but I doubt that I'll ever get the chance to use them again. Once my table gets re-clothed I won't be doing any jumping at home.

Love 'em or hate 'em, I think they are here to stay. I will ask this question to anyone who may want to contemplate their answer and tell the simple truth: Have you ever been hooked so bad that there was no way possible to kick your way out of it??? Maybe a jump cue would have been the answer for that situation. Maybe hating the jump cue and just giving up ball-in-hand in that scenario would be better, yes?

If I'm allowed to use one and I have one...then I am going to use it if the situation calls for it. That said, if all jump cues were permanently banned, it wouldn't bother me a darn bit. I can kick pretty decently.

Maniac (on the fence as usual)

 

[Joqpub4]

Always been fond of the rule where your opponent snookers you, jump cue allowed... you snooker yourself, keep using that full length cue

my rationale, the opponent safes you... you have every opportunity (and legal equipment) to get out of it... you do it to yourself, suck it up !!

-Joe

 

[David in FL]

I will ask this question to anyone who may want to contemplate their answer and tell the simple truth: Have you ever been hooked so bad that there was no way possible to kick your way out of it???

Sure. But that’s not the point. Nearly every shot provides different options to accomplish whatever it is you want to accomplish given the unique circumstances at the time. Would you insist that I play a forced follow shot to accomplish what I prefer to do wth draw?

Another tool in the box, that’s all it is. I carry 14 clubs in my golf bag too, even though I can shoot around my average score with only 5 or 6...

 

[The_JV]

You obviously never learned to jump with a full cue.

Yes I did. Still do when the situation allows and I'm either to lazy to pull out the jumper or the short stick isn't permitted.

 

[Maniac]

Sure. But that’s not the point. Nearly every shot provides different options to accomplish whatever it is you want to accomplish given the unique circumstances at the time. Would you insist that I play a forced follow shot to accomplish what I prefer to do wth draw?

Another tool in the box, that’s all it is. I carry 14 clubs in my golf bag too, even though I can shoot around my average score with only 5 or 6...

I read my post to say the same thing you are saying. So actually....we agree. I was making the point of showing that there come circumstances when the better option would be the jump cue.

I mean, kick at an un-hittable ball if someone wants to, but if I am allowed the jump shot would be my choice. The last sentence in that paragraph was meant to be sarcasm.

Maniac

 

[The_JV]

If I'm allowed to use one and I have one...then I am going to use it if the situation calls for it. That said, if all jump cues were permanently banned, it wouldn't bother me a darn bit. I can kick pretty decently.

Maniac (on the fence as usual)

I didn't buy into the jump cue industry full bore, so my jump break could simply not ever be broken down again. Not that big of a deal for me either. I don't have a problem with the jump being banned. However it's a very pre-schoolish, "it's my ball and I'm going home" type of attitude when a ban would be solely focused on the jump cue. I think it's a sad state of affairs if some equipment that makes the game easier is banned while some others are not.

 

[The_JV]

Always been fond of the rule where your opponent snookers you, jump cue allowed... you snooker yourself, keep using that full length cue

my rationale, the opponent safes you... you have every opportunity (and legal equipment) to get out of it... you do it to yourself, suck it up !!

-Joe

I do like that rule as well... Only the caveat I have is the situation wherein a player intentionally snookers themselves as apart of a pattern. I could easily count how many times I've done this on one hand. ...but the guys watching the match were beside themselves when they saw how the rack played out. Guarantee they still chat about that frame...

Again, entertainment value....

 

[hang-the-9]

If it is so easy to pocket a ball kicking,why don't u kick every shot?

I don't think the ease of making a ball is in the jump cue discussion at all. It all depends on the layout. If a ball is hanging, it's not hard to pop over a ball with a jump cue, a lot harder to kick it in. But the point is that even making a legal hit using equipment to make an almost impossible shot much easier makes it too easy for a skilled game. Swapping to some special cue won't make a kick easier, that is still all skill and knowledge but swapping to a dedicated short jump cue will make a jump shot go from impossible or a very low chance shot to something much much higher. That is the issue people have with jump cues, it's just too easy to use to execute the shot using them. There is absolutely no benefit to the game from using them aside from making a skilled shot just about trivial. How much fun would anything be if we made it all much easier? Car racing with computer driven cars? Football with a jet powered ball that flies controlled with a joystick? Soccer where the out of bounds is fenced in so nothing is out of bounds? Hockey where the goalie has a 4 foot wide glove?

The rules and equipment developed over time to what it is, people like to say "well then we need to get rid of leather tips and rubber cushions yuck yuck yuck", which is just silliness. It works out very well with the equipment we have that makes the game elegant but still counts on skill to play it. We don't need a pogo stick that does the work for us. Everyone is against large pockets but seems there are still people that like jump cues that you can hop a full ball from 1/2 inch away with. Oh he stinks people say, he ran out on buckets but bet he won't be able to on MY table. But grab a jump cue and those same people are "yay you go girl, hop that ball with no skill needed"

If someone can use a jump cue to execute a shot they can't without it, I should be allowed to have a calculator and laser projections to line up kicks with, and be allowed to increase pocket size when it's my turn.

 

[hang-the-9]

Sure. But that’s not the point. Nearly every shot provides different options to accomplish whatever it is you want to accomplish given the unique circumstances at the time. Would you insist that I play a forced follow shot to accomplish what I prefer to do wth draw?

Another tool in the box, that’s all it is. I carry 14 clubs in my golf bag too, even though I can shoot around my average score with only 5 or 6...

Golf has developed that way though, with the way clubs are made, and angles on them, you pick what you need for the distance you need to play. There are rules for golf, as there are rules for pool. The jump cue is not needed at all, it adds nothing good to the game past making it trivial to play a shot that used to take quite a bit of skill to execute. Someone executes a 3 rail safe where the balls travel 20 feet to hook a player, they whip out a $60 short stick and hop out of it. Like practicing for years with a sword to have some dope with a 70 IQ pull out a gun and shoot you from 50 feet away. Skill vs equipment.

Someone wants to jump vs kick, no problems, use one of your full cues you have at the table and jump away. It's not taking away the options, it's making the options equally a skill shot. Ball is hanging in the pocket, but you need to jump with a full cue, that's a skilled shot, so you see if that is better vs kicking at it. Other than that almost every situation is better done with a jump cue because it's so much easier to make a legal hit for most players, especially if it's a good safe that cuts off rails for the kicks.