No one is barred from the US Open events

golubushka said:
IMHO...it would be nice if everyone here gave the pro players the respect that they are due also...I would say, that if that would have happened in the first place (which it didn't) then things might have been different all the way around...(something to think about anyway).....
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I think that its safe to say that the pro players who deserve respect, get it.

Just because someone is considered a pro player does not automatically entitle them to any more (or any less) respect.

There are many "pro's" who have earned that lack of respect, all on their own. Just like there are many promoters who have earned respect, or lack thereof....
 
lfigueroa said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Satori)))
Any idea who spread the rumors you started?
Who all was privy to your discussions?





There are a hand full of guys here that do not deserve cheat shots like this.

Mark is one of them.

Lou Figueroa
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You are correct Mark is a great guy, and probably shouldn't have a "shot" taken towards him. (I contributed to the shot, but it did not quote properly in my response here...) On the other hand, I really believe he brought this on himself. The machine that is Mark/Helfert/JCIN, were on here for weeks and also on the TAR Podcasts (yes I watched them), making statements that anyone who would read between the lines could rightfully interpret as: If player A does not come to my event, Player A is barred from all my future events. Whether that only meant the Bigfoot challenge, or every event, was unclear.

Even Appleton himself got on here and posted to that affect.

So while it may have been a cheap shot, the rumors were started by the statements that team made.

No, I'm not going to listen to every TAR podcast or read every post again to find them. We all saw/read most of the same stuff. Its not just like one lone person interpreted their statements that way. Appleton did, and two fans in this thread alone who spoke up and took the "cheap shot". I'm certain countless others also interpreted the events of the last 2 months in the same way.

Learning from this in my fan based opinion (of the entire billiards world), is even if you don't agree with a competing promoter:
1. Don't make vague threats to the future tournament entry potential of pro players.
2. Don't spend all your time hating on competing promoters

Nobody, whether its pro players, billiards fans, or a random guy off the street, likes being told what they should do and who they should do it with or being told what they should NOT do. Hell, if your parents tell you "stay away from this boy/girl" as a kid, the first thing you are going to do is befriend that bad boy/girl.

Learn from this chain of events for future promoters and competitors, as they will always be there.
 
golubushka said:
IMHO...it would be nice if everyone here gave the pro players the respect that they are due also...I would say, that if that would have happened in the first place (which it didn't) then things might have been different all the way around...(something to think about anyway).....
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What is your implication?

I think EVERYONE here forgets that when there was the pro event out in Arizona that failed to pay the players, a UPA sanctioned event by the way, Mark stepped in and paid the players. I don't see that Mark has been disrespectful of the players throughout this whole thing.

Players deserve respect for the skills they have acquired NOT for the business decisions they have made thus far collectively as a group. Between the events that Mark Griffin and Greg Sullivan have put together no one has done more for American pool than these two men in the past 15 years. The events they have put on have paid out every dime advertised at the conclusion of the event without fail. None of their events were canceled either.

There doesn't need to be an implication that they disrespected the players at all. Both of them have tried and are trying to work with the players to insure that the players have the opportunity to play in the great and longstanding events that they have created.
 
iusedtoberich said:
You are correct Mark is a great guy, and probably shouldn't have a "shot" taken towards him. (I contributed to the shot, but it did not quote properly in my response here...) On the other hand, I really believe he brought this on himself. The machine that is Mark/Helfert/JCIN, were on here for weeks and also on the TAR Podcasts (yes I watched them), making statements that anyone who would read between the lines could rightfully interpret as: If player A does not come to my event, Player A is barred from all my future events. Whether that only meant the Bigfoot challenge, or every event, was unclear.

Even Appleton himself got on here and posted to that affect.

So while it may have been a cheap shot, the rumors were started by the statements that team made.

No, I'm not going to listen to every TAR podcast or read every post again to find them. We all saw/read most of the same stuff. Its not just like one lone person interpreted their statements that way. Appleton did, and two fans in this thread alone who spoke up and took the "cheap shot". I'm certain countless others also interpreted the events of the last 2 months in the same way.

Learning from this in my fan based opinion (of the entire billiards world), is even if you don't agree with a competing promoter:
1. Don't make vague threats to the future tournament entry potential of pro players.
2. Don't spend all your time hating on competing promoters

Nobody, whether its pro players, billiards fans, or a random guy off the street, likes being told what they should do and who they should do it with or being told what they should NOT do. Hell, if your parents tell you "stay away from this boy/girl" as a kid, the first thing you are going to do is befriend that bad boy/girl.

Learn from this chain of events for future promoters and competitors, as they will always be there.
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How about not putting words in Darren's mouth? He came on here and very clearly addressed Jay's comments specifically and the idea of being barred from events generally.

Here is some free advice for you since you have zero skin in the game....let the promoters handle their own business. Next time you have hundreds of thousands to millions on the line in an endeavor you can come on here and ask us all to tell you what to do and how to handle your competitors.

Face facts here, the players ARE being treated like pawns by both sides. Bonus Ball can't help it if they had delays in construction of their studio but unless they are on some network deadline to produce a show every week they certainly could have figured out a way to rework the season. Even the NFL and the NBA sometimes have to reshuffle their games to accommodate other things.

I still say that they could have gone to Tunica and signed up a 1000 subscribers wiling to pay $169 for a season pass. Had every player there decked out in Bonus Ball jerseys and rocked the house. With the right negotiation even made Bonus Ball part of the Master of the Table contest. Ok the last one might be farfetched but the point is that there had to have been a way to work together given all the information we have.

Or not, maybe there is some really compelling reason that BB Las Vegas can't shut down for two of the largest events on American soil. It's tragic that they don't however and the players are caught in the middle. But you can't put Mark down simply because he is upset. As he said if he had imposed any bans then he would announce it officially.

This whole thing stinks and it's really uncool for you and others to pour grease on the fire.
 
Cornerman said:
Let me get this straight... There's going to be no bars at the US Open???

Freddie <~~~ can't fade that
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Let me help you....

What Mark was saying is that there will be NO LAWYERS at the US Open events.


Eric >thought that was painfully obvious
 
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golubushka said:
JB...to change the subject (slightly anyway)...I own about $2000 worth of your cases (what I paid, not retail)...I'm sure you saw what Daz said about some of the pro players being dead broke...in the future, I would rather support (with my future case purchases) whoever is going to support these pro players in need more...does your business have a plan for this in the works...Thanks....
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I would say I and Sterling have put hundreds of thousands into player's pockets since I have been in this business.

My current business plan however does NOT include providing any financial support for professional players. I do plan to support tournaments that make sense for us financially.

So please send your case purchases to Sterling Gaming. They have poured a LOT of money into the pros during their 14 years in this business. They have paid rent for, paid credit card bills, co-signed loans, paid salaries to, loaned money, invested in, and supported pros in every way you can imagine and probably in some ways you can't.

www.cuesight.com - buy something from them and tell them that you appreciate all that they have done for the pros.
 
golubushka said:
JB...to change the subject (slightly anyway)...I own about $2000 worth of your cases (what I paid, not retail)...I'm sure you saw what Daz said about some of the pro players being dead broke...in the future, I would rather support (with my future case purchases) whoever is going to support these pro players in need more...does your business have a plan for this in the works...Thanks....
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I trust that you will hold any case manufacturer to the same standard of support, am I correct?
 
justadub said:
I trust that you will hold any case manufacturer to the same standard of support, am I correct?
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Yep, my thought is that if I plan to SPONSOR a player then I expect to PAY them. If I just GIVE them a case then I don't expect to use their name all over the place and make it a lopsided deal. I have never yet USED a player's name all over my website or in ads or touted them in every post if I only gave them a single case.

The only players whom we used in in advertisements were players like Ralf Souquet and Rafael Martinez both of whom we (instroke) paid money to while they were sponsored by us.

I would not and will not ever brag about my case being the champion's choice when they are getting a free case from me. To me giving someone a handbag is not sponsorship. Sorry, it's a handbag. They can't buy anything with it, the deal is lopsided.

In the past I have given lots of cases to sell to tours and to players. I might do more of that. Or I might take the idea that I just read about with Schuler and let players sell cases and get a cash deposit where they keep the cash deposit and then we take over the order. That's more of a win/win situation.

Right now I plan to make cases for five or six well known pros. When the cases are done I will show them off and they will be part of my portfolio. I don't expect any announcement as their sponsor and I don't expect them use the cases. If they do great, if not then not. I am giving these players cases simply because I happen to like them.
 
golubushka said:
OK...thanks, I'll check it out...to me the ultimate "respect" for the pro players is to allow them to make a decent living in pool...(I doubt that the promoters are hurting as much as many of the players are now...just another pertinent observation though as more food for thought, on what "respect" really is)....
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We need to be clear about something. Professional pool players CHOOSE to be professional pool players. No one is making them play pool for a living. I have immense respect for what it takes to become a pro player and what it takes to try and make a living doing it.

But the sad fact is that if pro players are broke then it's mostly because they are not good at running their own business and leveraging their skills and fame.

I have long held Ralf Souquet up as the consumate professional. He is a player who understands the business of being a pro and works it the right way. Another one is Jeanette Lee. The fact of it is that every pro has what they need inside of them to make a pretty good living as a professional player but most of them do not want to do that much work outside of simply showing up and playing.

There are olympic athletes who make less than average pro players. They have to work one or two full time jobs just to be able to support their training.

The ultimate respect for professional players would be if they themselves started to act like professionals and gathered together to be unanimous in their voice. Instead of allowing every promoter to change the rules at every tournament, to hold events with no money, to mess with schedules and so on, they should show themselves some respect and FINALLY have a pro organization that is willing to step away from events that don't conform to the world rules. But they have not and seemingly will not do that as one group in unison.

As a group they have what it takes to raise money. They have what it takes to make money outside of tournaments. As a group they would have negotiating power. But in fact previous attempts have been heavy-handed and unprofessional.

So pros don't need handouts as much as you think that they might. They are not charity cases. They are adults who choose to play a game and make it into a sport. Companies that want to align with them do so not for charitable purposes but for advertising purposes and to that end those companies want them getting as much exposure as possible. So it's incumbent on the pros to be playing as much in the limelight as possible to give their sponsors some kind of exposure.
 
golubushka said:
Sorry to hijack the thread...but to me it's really about a seemingly failed (pool) system that hasn't supported the pros enough...but I know it's more complex than that...but I'm just trying to be positive and support whoever will recognize the pros current situation and *maybe* try to do something about it...like (most) everyone else here, I ain't gettin' paid for spending my time here etc....
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Well that's another issue as well. To me the leagues have all dropped the ball on this because if ALL of them together would toss .25cts per player from each week's league sessions then it would amount to hundreds of thousands per month that could fund an ongoing professional tour that WOULD 100% be on TV. To me that is a great investment to grow pool and thus grow the leagues AND be able to create a pro tour that is not only stable but has an active path from the amateurs to the pros from the wide base of league players.
 
a;4226428]OK...thanks, I'll check it out...to me the ultimate "respect" for the pro players is to allow them to make a decent living in pool...(I doubt that the promoters are hurting as much as many of the players are now...just another pertinent observation though as more food for thought, on what "respect" really is)....[/QUOTE]

Please explain to me why "we" owe a professional player a decent living or respect? Both of those are things earned not given. If there are insufficient opportunities to make money playing pool, allow them to find a different source of income. Legal of course.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of the same old story being repeated year after year. Usually by the same people for the same people.

Lyn
 
Darn, I've been telling people I would easily win the U S Open if I wasn't barred from playing. Now I have to come up with another excuse for not entering the tournament.
 
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