No one is barred from the US Open events
- Thread starter Mark Griffin
- Start date
No one is barred at US Opens
Efren is committed to play in the Japan Open.
Busti will be here (i was told)
Kiamco does play BB
No sure about lee van corteza.
Still over 3 weeks to register and we have been told quite a fewpotp players will be signing up.
I talked to Ralf, Ernesto and Oscar while at Tunica - I was told they will play.
Mark Griffin
Efren is committed to play in the Japan Open.
Busti will be here (i was told)
Kiamco does play BB
No sure about lee van corteza.
Still over 3 weeks to register and we have been told quite a fewpotp players will be signing up.
I talked to Ralf, Ernesto and Oscar while at Tunica - I was told they will play.
Mark Griffin
Those four were all in Tunica, MS today, playing pool. But Kiamco is also a Bonus Ball regular on the New York Pride.
GUYS
players cant organize anything
the big investment kevin trudeau made was actually the way to create a major avenue for pool.(too bad he was lying lol)
who created and ran the nfl,nhl or nba...the players?no someone sees an avenue to make money through events,licensing tv rights and maybe even ticket sales...they then create an avenue for people to pay money to watch it on tv or in person,they create a business plan based on what the income should be based on either past performance or market analysis..then they make a deal or create a payplan for the participants.i know this is over simplified but the point is nothing is going to continue to grow or growback with players making decisions-all successful leagues and or tours are separate entities.they need business people to do the business part and players to play-we dont see big sponsor organization like the old days because the bean counters in the larger companies figured out a long time ago they dont need us to watch pool to buy pool equipment.
btw-mr griffin and those like him do an awesome job with what they have
players cant organize anything
the big investment kevin trudeau made was actually the way to create a major avenue for pool.(too bad he was lying lol)
who created and ran the nfl,nhl or nba...the players?no someone sees an avenue to make money through events,licensing tv rights and maybe even ticket sales...they then create an avenue for people to pay money to watch it on tv or in person,they create a business plan based on what the income should be based on either past performance or market analysis..then they make a deal or create a payplan for the participants.i know this is over simplified but the point is nothing is going to continue to grow or growback with players making decisions-all successful leagues and or tours are separate entities.they need business people to do the business part and players to play-we dont see big sponsor organization like the old days because the bean counters in the larger companies figured out a long time ago they dont need us to watch pool to buy pool equipment.
btw-mr griffin and those like him do an awesome job with what they have
John,
Just don't understand why, as a multi-league player, it is my responsibility to support a professional pool player or tournament. Little league baseball doesn't send money to the minors or majors. Same in football and golf. Sponsors, promoters, spectators and viewers support professional sports. Why should pool be different? Just asking. Not arguing.
Lyn
It's not your responsibility. It's the responsibility of the companies that want to see pool be stronger and larger. They should take 25cts from each of your weekly dues payment and fund a pro tour without telling you about it. They don't disclose all the other things that they spend the money on and this is no different.
You are absolutely right that amateur baseball does not FUND pro baseball. But pro baseball and amateur baseball are intertwined on many levels and amateur baseball functions as a broad based funnel into pro base ball. If pool had the same mass appeal then we wouldn't need to even talk about it. But the fact is that pool does not have that mass appeal nor any solid path to the professional game, nor even a coherent set of rules. So for this reason it is my opinion that to insure that the game thrives the major amateur organizations should be united to promote it at the highest levels so as to grow the base.
So no, you don't have any responsibility to fund pro pool. But by funding it with a tiny slice of your fees you insure that amateur pool is also healthier. At least that's what I predict.
Flip the argument around, John.
Why don't pro players see the potential for growth of the sport as a whole, and invest time in the leagues....?
You know the answer.
I think I know what you think is the answer but I will say this much about it, assuming that all the pros would "invest" time in the leagues as they now stand would not increase the popularity of pool overall. It might increase the income of the pros if they could leverage the investment of time (assuming you mean that the investment is free to the amateurs) into actual paying customers willing to spend money on lessons and clinics and exhibitions. In fact I know that pros could earn more doing those things.
But the point is that in the current state of things a pro hanging out with amateurs doesn't do anything to grow pool.
If you take my suggestion then the pros would have to hang out with amateurs as part of their "job" and they would have incentive to do it because their income would be derived mainly from the amateur base. Pro athletes give back a lot of their time to amateurs, sometimes altruistically and sometimes promotionally.
All true.
Still, we are talking pool players, not baseball/basketball/football/hockey players who grew up in such a culture.
I just find the attitude that we league players somehow owe it to the pro players to create a living for them a bit annoying. "Hell, just have the league players pay for it, there's enough of them". This comes up here on AZB fairly frequently, as you know, so it shouldn't be surprising that the thought gets a response like mine.
I do agree that properly constructed, a joint venture between the leagues and the pro's would be beneficial to both. That would require a lot of forward thinking on both the pro's, and the people who run the leagues. The pro's would have to come to the plate showing what they have to offer before trying to sell an increase in weekly dues to the league players. Since it's been made quite clear that the vast majority of league players have no clue who SVB is, much less any of the others out their, save maybe JA or Earl. And Jeanette, of course.
Although to be honest, if the APA raised their weekly dues next week in order to fund such a program, the vast majority probably wouldn't change course, though some certainly could.
My point is to be done right, it would need to be a cooperative venture on both sides. And somehow I just don't see it happening in the current environment.
It is my experience that amateur pool is the ONLY healthy part of the game. If you can explain to me why funding a "pro" tour would make amateur pool healthier, I'm all eyes (ears). Take amateur pool leagues out of the equation and pool is really dead!
Incidentally, I think the USAPL does take a small portion of the league dues to fund a travel fund for pro players. Perhaps Mark Griffin or Mark Estes will jump on here and explain how it works and what it's done for the players.
Lyn
Why is it the responsibility of the companies? What have the pros done in the past to increase the revenue or membership of these leagues. These companies arent profiting off the furtunes or hard work of the proffesional pool player. As its been pointed out numerous times, most league players cant identify many of these players, with the exception of Jennette Lee, Allison Fisher, and Kelly Fisher.
It seems to me that if leagues fund a tour then the pros will be the ones to benefit, with the possibility of the league(s) profiting in the future. If history shows us anything it's that this venture would fail. I feel the opposite and think its the pros responsibility to step forward, come up with a business plan, and show the leagues what they collectively can offer if given a chance. This could entice leagues to help promote a tour or at least some tournaments.
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Sure. I simply think that a pro tour on television inspires more people to play pool. Controling the production allows the leagues to more effectively advertise the benefits of league play. In short we make the pie bigger which benefits everyone.
Two ways to make money in business, dominate an existing market or grow the market.
The pros are the actors. they fill the roles that producers and investor create for them.
John, this is accurate and probably necessary for anything like a tour to work in regards to a catalyst for growing the economic scope of the game.
People here make a lot of comparisons to golf which is fair. However, the comparisons does not start and end with the purse for the tournaments. The purse gets there because of the money spent by the amateurs and received by the companies that sponsor golf. I have no data to back this up but I would guess that titlist's sales for their prov1 golf ball are more than most of the pool related companies combined.
I am sure there is a formula out there that would predict for every new pool enthusiast that enters the market, how much more valuable the game becomes (total net worth of the sport so to speaks). Therefore the economic output of the game - tournament winnings and profitability of pool related companies are explained. Right now the economic benefit of each new pool player is small. The economic output is therefore low.
The only way to change this is increase the number of new pool players and find a pathway to increase the economic value per new person (2x or maybe even as much as 5 times) to get the results people here are dreaming of.
Maybe it would be productive to discuss what has created that in the past, both I pool and elsewhere.
OMG can you just imagine Earl The Pearl on a TV reality pool show! The very thought is outrageous enough to be successful!!! I love Earl but the comments would read bleep bleep that mother bleeper bleep bleep bleep!