Non-Traditional Banking

You know, this is why I almost never post in az thread 'debates'.

I took a chance here because the posters seemed intelligent and respectful, but I was wrong.

I prefaced my posting of my thoughts by saying, "with all due respect to other posters"......I sure didn't get the same thing back - instead I got insults and sarcasm from the op and the next poster......I should have known better - my expectations for mutual respect were mistaken.
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
You know, this is why I almost never post in az thread 'debates'.

I took a chance here because the posters seemed intelligent and respectful, but I was wrong.

I prefaced my posting of my thoughts by saying, "with all due respect to other posters"......I sure didn't get the same thing back - instead I got insults and sarcasm from the op and the next poster......I should have known better - my expectations for mutual respect were mistaken.
Click to expand...

Scroll up a little, I apologized. I was a little beered-up.
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
You know, this is why I almost never post in az thread 'debates'.

I took a chance here because the posters seemed intelligent and respectful, but I was wrong.

I prefaced my posting of my thoughts by saying, "with all due respect to other posters"......I sure didn't get the same thing back - instead I got insults and sarcasm from the op and the next poster......I should have known better - my expectations for mutual respect were mistaken.
Click to expand...
i meant no disrespect ! and it was a serious question.
sorry if i offended you.
rodney stephens.
 
Damnit Spider,

Every time I see the title to this thread I get excited thinking it's going to be about online banks like ING Direct or something... :(

At least that'd be a thread I could contribute to.

I bank solely on feel (and not well at that)

carry on!
 
Thanks for sharing the info and what a great video. As i read thru this topic i get a feeling alot of the players on here are very good and have developed a system of their own and it works for them. I have no system that works,( i do pray to the Pool God on some shots), but i too as someone mentioned shy away from the bank. I just started trying the system and have improved my banking from about 10% to 40% to me this is a great improvement and has given me a bit more of an edge on my game now. I have read other systems and they got me very very confused, this one was easy for a old man to figure out and also my young grandson was able to grasp it right away. Thanks again and look forward to more of your videos and info. Sincerly CCn7
 
If this helped your game, PM RonV to say so. I'm sure he wants to hear from you. Call him for a phone lesson, you won't regret it.

Same with Stan/Hall. They'll help you.
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
All of that said, in playing 3c billiards however, I do use systems (diamond systems) for some shots, and it would take me a while to explain the difference.
Click to expand...

Ghost,
My best pool friend (a pro) learned 3-cushion from Sang Lee. Sang told them that he didn't use any systems for playing; relying on feel for all of his shots. Sang then showed my friend a dynamite system, which of course I use all of the time. Systems can be a good shortcut to developing feel (unless of course you have plenty of time to hit a million balls).
 
(QUOTE) Patrick Johnson
But I think there are some things we do know:

- "Feel" is another word for "estimating from experience"

- Everybody uses feel/estimation on every shot, consciously or unconsciously

- Systems narrow the range of estimation; they don't eliminate it

- Estimation works best when you have confidence in it

- Systems increase confidence for some by narrowing estimates to a more manageable range

here here, well said rep to you.
rodney
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Sorry for being obnoxious... I was tired last night and cranky.

If this info doesn't help you, no prob. Sorry for being excited.
Click to expand...


You weren't that obnoxious - and I didn't mean to single you out anyway. You're passionate about the game and what helps you with it - I can relate.

No worries.

pj
chgo
 
OK, off the pedestal you go. LOL (just kidding)

If someone believes there's no such thing as aiming systems or banking systems... NO MATTER what you think your speed is.... you're completely ignorant....and naive, there's nothing I or anyone can do to enlighten you.[/QUOTE]

I think whatever players use to improve their game and/or confidence, they should use it. Everyone has their own path to learning and improving.
Its not that I dont agree with systems, I just dont use them. Like I said, I am a "feel" player and always have been.
Someone said in post on this thread "unless you have hit millions of balls",
well, I spent 8 yrs in a pool room, and If I had to say how many balls I have hit, it might be millions,LOL. Maybe thats why I dont use systems, not really sure. I have found when you play on many different types of equipment playing in tournaments, it effects the outcome of some systems, well maybe that is why some players start using more feel than systems. Just my thoughts.
I think maybe a little of both would benefit the most.
Dave, I admire the passion you have. Good Luck in the future. You are one of the good guys on this site.
 
In my professional business (Industrial Automation) we call this Fuzzy Logic or Adaptive Control. It takes math and some historical data along with the last correct response(s) to approximate (replace feel for Pool) for the correct answer for current problem. From here if the result is inappropriate then tuning brings this back to the correct value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic

Nick

Patrick Johnson said:
The main thing you demonstrate with this system is that you have an abundance of "feel". This system doesn't work by giving you three specific shots that work for everything; it works by categorizing your shots into three groups (or "ranges") that make it easier for you to "feel" the specific shot needed in each case. It narrows the selection down to a more manageable range of possibilities from which to choose.

The very first step in the system is to "feel" what category of shot you're faced with. If it's a "1/2 tip" shot, you know that from experience - by feel. But you haven't yet identified the exact shot; you've determined the category or range of shots it belongs to (the range between "no tip" and "1 tip").

Only a small minority of actual shots can be made using only the three specific cut angles defined by the system, so all the rest (the great majority of actual shots) are made by finding the specific aim within the range you've chosen that exactly fits the shot you have. You know it's "somewhere around 1/2 tip", and you decide exactly where by feel.



This is a relatively unexplored area in pool - I think everybody is pretty ignorant and naive about it. Those who are most certain they know "the way" are the most ignorant and naive (and obnoxious).

But I think there are some things we do know:

- "Feel" is another word for "estimating from experience"

- Everybody uses feel/estimation on every shot, consciously or unconsciously

- Systems narrow the range of estimation; they don't eliminate it

- Estimation works best when you have confidence in it

- Systems increase confidence for some by narrowing estimates to a more manageable range

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
 
Williebetmore said:
Ghost,
My best pool friend (a pro) learned 3-cushion from Sang Lee. Sang told them that he didn't use any systems for playing; relying on feel for all of his shots. Sang then showed my friend a dynamite system, which of course I use all of the time.
Click to expand...


Hi Willie......I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that the pool pro you're referring to is Jeanette.

And speaking of Sang Lee....about 12 years ago Sang was living here in Chicago, giving me the good fortune of being able to play with him many times. He was a great friend and influence to all of the billiard players at Chris's billiards, and always willing to play....if you were a gambler, he'd gamble with you, and if you just wanted to play for the table time, he'd give you a big spot and play you just for the time.....

He is missed - may he rest in peace....or better yet, maybe he's not resting, maybe he's running some 15's up there...:)
 
Is this correct?

I'm very curious about this system. Too many people have posted that it works and works well for it to be simply discounted out of hand, and I'd love to have a highly accurate baseline to aim from.

I tried what I thought was right for a number of bank shots using "center to edge" or at least what I think is center-to-edge. Sometimes it worked, but so far usually not. I'm taking the open-minded route and assuming that this is the result of my lack of understanding rather than the system simply not working.

Some angles were severely undercut while others were severely overcut. It seemed to work best when the correct banking aim was about a half ball hit, which I think means that I'm doing something very wrong.

This is what I was doing.

I would align my cue at the right edge of the cueball, parallel to the line going through the center of the cueball, to the right edge of the object ball as shown, then pivot the cue stick to center cue ball.

Is this the correct PRE-pivot cue position to start with?

CueTable Help

 
androd said:
not sure what the geometric reflection is? but if the CB and OB are both one diamond from the pocket,( not frozen) pivot 1 tip on the short rail and 1/2 tip on long rail banks .(long rails are twice as far) 1 1/2 diamonds 1 1/2 tips the trick is to figure out how much 1 tip is. hope this helps
Click to expand...

Went to the pool hall last night and tried both the reflection method and the center to center. I couldn't figure out how to make the reflection method work (flourescent lights) and tried the right edge of the reflection to the center of the OB reflection and they didn't go. One of my buddies tried as well and couldn't make it work either.

The center to center seemed to work quite well, but not consistently when the relective path of the object ball off the rail is more than 1 diamond from the pocket. However, when that is the case, I simply adjust and shoot the object ball off center toward a path that I know is within the 1 diamond distance and use the 1 tip pivot and it seemed to work great. I was a pretty decent banker going in last night but came out a bit better. I have always used the "mirror with feel/experience" taking into consideration speed of the cloth, rails, and spin imparted on the object ball based on english and contact angle. Now I have another gun in my arsenal. Thanks. It didn't seem to work any differently when trying to determine smaller pivot increments. It more than likely would on a tight table.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top