Now & Then Who's the Better

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I noticed there are allot of responses pertaining to who are the five best players in there state, but would you say the last generation of players from lets say the 70-80s' were better than the current group? Where I come from there are more good players now than before, but the top 5 players back then were better than the current top 5.
 
Isn't htis like asking....

Island Drive said:
I noticed there are allot of responses pertaining to who are the five best players in there state, but would you say the last generation of players from lets say the 70-80s' were better than the current group? Where I come from there are more good players now than before, but the top 5 players back then were better than the current top 5.
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between Ali and Tyson who would have won? Just wondering since there is no possible way to really tell. :confused:
 
my opinion

My opinion, I think that the recent top five are the best ever with very few possible exceptions. The reason is simple. Few people get better than just good enough to beat the competition. Fields are far better now and the competition is much tougher. In the seventies there wasn't likely to be more than a handful of people that were a struggle to beat at a middle sized tournament. Now the field of possible winners is much deeper and the players are honing their skills against each other.

This does raise the question though: How much better could the players of yesteryear have been with tougher competition?

Hu



Island Drive said:
I noticed there are allot of responses pertaining to who are the five best players in there state, but would you say the last generation of players from lets say the 70-80s' were better than the current group? Where I come from there are more good players now than before, but the top 5 players back then were better than the current top 5.
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Island Drive said:
I noticed there are allot of responses pertaining to who are the five best players in there state, but would you say the last generation of players from lets say the 70-80s' were better than the current group? Where I come from there are more good players now than before, but the top 5 players back then were better than the current top 5.
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Very hard to identify the top 5 from both era's. Just as a starting point I'd say the top 5 of the 70's/80's might be: (9ball)

Hall
Segal
Strickland (85 thru90)
Varner
Searcy,Reid,Roberts,McCready(at times),other


Today's top 5 might be:

Reyes
Souquet
Hohlman
Busta
Manalo,Duel,Morris,Orcolla(sp),Engert,Feigen(sp?),other

After thinking about it I would give a SLIGHT edge to the players of yesteryear because they probably PLAYED more. In order to make $ you had to play a lot....:)
 
MrLucky said:
between Ali and Tyson who would have won? Just wondering since there is no possible way to really tell. :confused:
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Ali, baby! ;)

Though, a young Tyson was F-A-S-T (and hit pretty hard too ;)). Still, I don't think any fighter was fast enough to catch Cassius Clay.
 
Always laughed about that

I always laughed about the names. If he won a fight the reports all said the great Mohammed Ali wins again. If he lost he was right back to being Cassius Clay. "Clay lost last night."

Hu

Jimmy M. said:
Ali, baby! ;)

Though, a young Tyson was F-A-S-T (and hit pretty hard too ;)). Still, I don't think any fighter was fast enough to catch Cassius Clay.
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ShootingArts said:
I always laughed about the names. If he won a fight the reports all said the great Mohammed Ali wins again. If he lost he was right back to being Cassius Clay. "Clay lost last night."

Hu
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Cassius Clay NEVER lost a fight....Ali lost a few.

Both were the best I've seen:confused:
 
Jimmy M. said:
Ali, baby! ;)

Though, a young Tyson was F-A-S-T (and hit pretty hard too ;)). Still, I don't think any fighter was fast enough to catch Cassius Clay.
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That and Tyson was never as smart in the ring as Ali was.
 
I beg to disagree

I beg to disagree. Check a major newspaper morgue. He was back being Cassius Clay after every fight he lost. Ali never lost a fight, at least according to the reporters! :D ;) :D

By my score Smoking Joe beat him two out of three and I think the twenty-one year old Tyson might have slaughtered him. Clay/Ali was the smartest fighter of his time and by far the greatest showman. However he was actually a light heavyweight in build as a young fighter and it wasn't until after his comeback that he developed a decent punch. When it comes to pure boxers Ali/Clay wouldn't make my top ten in all weight divisions despite his record and years holding the title.

Hu

ribdoner said:
Cassius Clay NEVER lost a fight....Ali lost a few.

Both were the best I've seen:confused:
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Things we will never know....hmmmmm - A no answer possible question w/proof to back it up.

(# of times I've heard this question over my lifetime... Thousands)
 
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Did you ever actually see him fight?

ShootingArts said:
I beg to disagree. Check a major newspaper morgue. He was back being Cassius Clay after every fight he lost. Ali never lost a fight, at least according to the reporters! :D ;) :D

By my score Smoking Joe beat him two out of three and I think the twenty-one year old Tyson might have slaughtered him. Clay/Ali was the smartest fighter of his time and by far the greatest showman. However he was actually a light heavyweight in build as a young fighter and it wasn't until after his comeback that he developed a decent punch. When it comes to pure boxers Ali/Clay wouldn't make my top ten in all weight divisions despite his record and years holding the title.

Hu
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:confused: Your analysis just doesn't jive with my memorys! as far as a 21 year old tyson! consider for what its worth Tyson and Joe Frazier where similar type and size fighters ! The Ali Frazier Fights were considered some of the best in fighting when Boxing was still exciting. JMO! :)
 
Hard to say

I was referring to when Tyson peaked. Was he twenty-one or even a little younger?

Hard to say how a young Tyson would have done. He had no competition. I wonder if he had, how different things might have been. Of course his mentor died too and he spun out of control. Was Cus D'amico his mentor or am I crossing names up? I wonder if Tyson could have bulled past Ali's defenses in the first round or two. After that I would favor Ali over Tyson.

Joe Frazier is my favorite heavyweight of all time. More heart than the law ought to allow. Had he tangled with Tyson, both in their prime, it would have been like fighting a mirror as far as build and styles. I would bet Joe just on heart and class.

Hu




MrLucky said:
:confused: Your analysis just doesn't jive with my memorys! as far as a 21 year old tyson! consider for what its worth Tyson and Joe Frazier where similar type and size fighters ! The Ali Frazier Fights were considered some of the best in fighting when Boxing was still exciting. JMO! :)
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Yep Joe - Mike would be brutal in their respective days

ShootingArts said:
I was referring to when Tyson peaked. Was he twenty-one or even a little younger?

Hard to say how a young Tyson would have done. He had no competition. I wonder if he had, how different things might have been. Of course his mentor died too and he spun out of control. Was Cus D'amico his mentor or am I crossing names up? I wonder if Tyson could have bulled past Ali's defenses in the first round or two. After that I would favor Ali over Tyson.

Joe Frazier is my favorite heavyweight of all time. More heart than the law ought to allow. Had he tangled with Tyson, both in their prime, it would have been like fighting a mirror as far as build and styles. I would bet Joe just on heart and class.

Hu
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Cus Amato was Tysons mentor and IMO destroyer all in one, He pulled Tyson out of reform school at the age of 16 and hunkered him down on a farm upstate NY and created a killing machine from a street thug / urchin! He never gave him the tools to do any of the other things in life creating the dismall and to some pathetic mess that is now Tyson ! He is in Vegas as a side show in order to pay his bills and survive :mad:
 
MrLucky said:
between Ali and Tyson who would have won? Just wondering since there is no possible way to really tell. :confused:
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it's not the same kind of comparison. if the tables and balls were the same,,,,then a beautifully run 9ball rack is a beautifully run 9ball rack,,,and a 400 ball run is a 400 hundred ball run no matter what era.

but the fact is that the equipment is easier to play on today. better tables and better balls have made the game essentially easier today than it was 40 years ago.

so i would guess that the players were probably better in the past,,,that the players today play a game that doesn't place demands on their skills,,,but that the TOP players in any era will always be competitive with each other, that is why they are/were the tops.

and btw, tyson has already proven himself to be a shallow champion, so that is a bad comparison to begin with.:):):) a young tyson notwithstanding, some things are undeniable and one of them is there has never been since, a heavyweight with the skillset of ali. it would be a better match between tyson/foreman or tyson/frazier. foreman would do to tyson what he did to frazier. plus, tyson would be going into the ring against two opponents who had what others lacked,,,,heart. all of mike's opponents were scared of him BEFORE they stepped into the ring.
 
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MrLucky said:
,,,,,,,He never gave him the tools to do any of the other things in life creating the dismall and to some pathetic mess that is now Tyson ! ,,,,,,,:
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you're implying tyson was mentored improperly and that somehow was more the reason for his demise. i beg to disagree,,,he was on top of the world, until he met a MAN who b!tch slapped him all night and flattened him horizontal...and from then on tyson was a shallow fighter. that was tyson's pedigree.
 
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