Object ball "Skid" - real or just a BS excuse?
- Thread starter Jigger
- Start date
Jigger said:
Yeah, it's the exact same mechanism for what produces throw, bith Spin Induced and Contact Induced. A skid is just when something gets between the contact points and increases the friction.
I used to put a small piece of blu-tak (soft putty for attaching posters to walls) at the contact point to experiment with the effects of skids.
IE can work to reduce skids if the cut angle is say +10 degrees and the shot is not played too softly and also if the IE is spinning quite a lot. A touch of IE can throw the ball more than a heavily spinning IE shot. This is because the friction coefficient reduces as the relative speeds of the contacting surfaces meet.
Drag stun shots are probably the worst kind of shot for inviting bad kick effects as this shot maximizes throw already. Heavy OE can also have some weird effects throwing the OB in the opposite direction with a heavy contact (skid) esp at slower speeds.
A touch of OE, or playing the shot firmer is the best best, but medium to heavy IE can also be used if you're used to aligning that way. Someone here posted that Efren often pots cut shots with IE and it may be for this reason.
bud green said:
I have to agree that its hard to beleive but the main thing to be taken from the experiment with ZERO CHALK on the tip or cue ball is that CHALK is NOT the cause. The video clearly showed massive kicks/skids with ZERO chalk present, proving that chalk is definately NOT the cause of kicks/skids.
I'm sure the BBC will update us on this mystery but having watched the experiments Im convinced now its not static or chalk
Well, I don't think the poms have worked anything out since that Sherlock bloke diedTheOne said:I don't know, I provided an explanation and the wild theories still persist!
Chalk absolutely causes many kicks, I'd estimate 90% of them. Just tap some chalk on the contact points and play a few shots and you'll get the occassional whopper skid.
Things like oil and polishes could also contribute by holding small dust and chalk particles to the surfaces.
Colin Colenso said:Well, I don't think the poms have worked anything out since that Sherlock bloke died
Chalk absolutely causes many kicks, I'd estimate 90% of them. Just tap some chalk on the contact points and play a few shots and you'll get the occassional whopper skid.
Things like oil and polishes could also contribute by holding small dust and chalk particles to the surfaces.
Its like the blind leading the blind lol!
Zero chalk on cue ball or tip = massive kick!
The less said about using IE or OE to avoid kicks the better!
PS
The POMS have more innovations and inventions to their name than any other nation hehe!
bud green said:
You are absolutely right. In actual play the reason for the balls skidding is chalk marks on the cueball contacting a chalk mark on the object ball. That is why it doesn't happen every shot. I love this experiment theory, has nothing to do with what happens in actual play. GENIUS
Kelly_Guy said:
I think it is extremely unlikely that chalk can now be considered the cause of kicks/skids. In fact most professional players already thought this since kicks often occurred immediately after a cue ball had been cleaned by the referee.
Yes its possible that there are many causes of kicks in theory but the chances that there are more than one cause for such a mystical phenomenon I find extremely unlikely. It has been proved that a skid/kick can occur easily with Zero Chalk and Zero Static, IMO the answer lies somewhere else, probably some material within the cloth but possibly humidity.
Although personally I seriously doubt both humidity and any type of spin.
England rarely suffers from any kind of humidity lol and kicks are a frequent occurrence. However I accept it may be possible that although humidity might not be the direct cause it may increase the chances of a kick/skid.
wake up man and smell the coffee!! Or do you got to be hit on the head. The chalk marks cause the skids in actual play. See if Steve Davis friends can figure out what causes the skid marks in your underwear! Jesus!
I tell you what you learn to play and than post comments. I am praying you want to impress your fellow posters and want to make a game
I know you are a big time tournament player
There are many reasons for skidding to occur but in ACTUAL PLAY it is the chalk marks on the balls. According to you if it was the oil or the cloth it would happen everytime but it doesn't. Wake up!!!!!!
thebighurt said:
I'm not trying to impress anyone I'm simply informing you that it has been scientifically proven by a number of university professors and professional snooker players on TV that chalk is not the cause of skids/kicks. I like yourself believed chalk to be the cause many years ago, before seeing that a) kicks still occur after the cue ball has been cleaned and b) playing with a cue ball drenched in chalk often doesn't result in any skids/kicks.
I can't play for shit, what sort of weight would an expert champion player like yourself be willing to tempt me with?
I tell you what, I give lessons but I am going to have to charge you triple because it is obvious I have to explain everything 3 times to you.
thebighurt said:
I'm still waiting for you to explain how if chalk is the cause of kicks they occur if there is zero chalk present on both balls?
It doesn't matter what type of game it is this has nothing to do with physics, Im sure the balls don't know its a big tournament lol.
PS
The world is round, not flat
TheOne said:
TheHalfaCouple,
While there may be other causes of skid (ie. anything that may increase friction between the 2 balls), it is ABSOLUTELY clear that chalk can increase this tendency (and is probably the major contributor in most real life instances - though barbeque sauce definitely does it too
).If you had had the common decency to attend the DCC this year (no one wants to hear your lame excuses about job, finances, travel costs, parole violations, etc.), you would have seen Jerry Briesath give a free demonstration lesson. In the lesson he applied chalk to the contact surface of the object ball to demonstrate some MAJOR skid. Mthornto was so taken with this demonstration that during our celebrity match, he tried sprinkling chalk dust on the 8-ball AS I WAS TRYING TO SHOOT IT (photographic evidence of this exists, I'll get you next time MT). A little outside English is an excellent antidote.
thebighurt said:
A teacher lol, what a suprise, you just can't teach a teacher, let me guess you've been telling all your students for years that chalk causes kicks/skids?
Does this mean my ass whooping is off?
PS
It is not my ideas, I'm merely sharing new information with this forum, you can chose to open your eyes or bury your head in the sand. Its no skin off my nose.
TheOne said:
Dude, you don't get it. You might be right, you might be wrong, I don't care, but saying "scientifically proven"? People do some little experiment and draw their own conclusions and say things are proven, and they don't have the slightest idea of what a null hypothesis is or the rigors of scientific study.
Like I said before, the experiment you described is only at best proving that chalk on the balls is NOT THE ONLY cause of skids. It didn't prove chalk doesn't or can't cause skids, and it doesn't prove that chalk does.
"Scientifically proven" requires a scientific design with no motive going into it, replication, statistical scrutiny, etc.
Does smoking cause lung cancer? I know someone who died of lung cancer, and they never smoked, so therefore it is proven that smoking does not cause lung cancer. That is the same argument you are making by stating the Mike Davis experiment proves chalk marks don't cause skids.
You can make arguments as to why you have your opinion and give examples of experiments that you think might give some credence to your opinion, but the scientifically proven talk is down right laughable.
Kelly