On Target Tips: low deflection and hybrid tips.

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
Ok, the proverbial cat is out of the bag.

Some of you out there already know and have had the opportunity to shoot with my low deflection tip. YES, you heard that correctly, it is a tip that makes any shaft low deflection.

The official launch will be in ~1 to 2 months.

My original intent was not to create a low deflection tip although I had suspected that the potential for the tip to reduce squirt was there.

I had spoken about it with Royce and like most people, he believed that a reduction in end mass was the only thing that could reduce cueball squirt.

I had accepted that and it took me a minute after testing the first prototype to even realize what had happened.

As many of you probably know from my past posts, I was a huge adherent to BHE. So much so in fact that I had begun to mark (with a sharpie) the pivot points on my non-LD shafts and cues.

It was one of those shafts that I had put my tip onto and during initial test trials, I kept missing shots while using BHE.

Then it dawned on me that I had suspected that reduced squirt could be a consequence of the design and I switched to not adjusting my aim for squirt and I started making everything.

That's where it all began.

Initially, I had two purposes in mind when I designed my tips. To eliminate mushrooming and to increase energy transfer on center ball hits.

I'll be offering two types of tips, a low deflection tip and a hybrid tip. Actually, both tips will be low deflection but one will be a true hybrid with a harder denser material in the center of the tip to promote better energy transfer where miscues are impossible and one will be more traditional with the encapsulation that allows it to reduce squirt.

I'm in the process of setting up the production facility and the website, so they are not quite ready to launch but they will be soon.

As some of you know, I travel a lot in my main career as a fiber optic network field engineer and that has given me the opportunity to show some AZers and pool players the prototypes of the tips and allow them to hit some balls with them.

The feedback from those that have hit with them has been entirely positive.

I'm willing to answer questions, but I do ask that we keep it cordial. I'm not looking to get into a bunch of arguments although I do understand that any time that results fly in the face of believed paradigms, there is resistance. That's why I've decided to send Dr. Dave a free tip for peer review. I'll be sending him one here in the next week or so, but Dave has said that it may be a while before he has a chance to doing any tests and that's no problem.

I'm confident enough in the results I have found that I'm sure that he will come to the same conclusion on the results even if we don't end up agreeing on the underlying mechanisms involved.

Jaden
 
I've been waiting for someone to come out with a low deflection tip. After all, its the closest mass to the CB, closer than the ferrule and first few inches of the shaft wood.

Can you show a cross section of the tips? It sounds from your description that there might be a solid material inside of the tip, but a cross sectional view would certainly help in the understanding.

How does a "cut to size and shape" tip compare in mass to other tips?

Thanks.
 
It's not the mass...

I've been waiting for someone to come out with a low deflection tip. After all, its the closest mass to the CB, closer than the ferrule and first few inches of the shaft wood.

Can you show a cross section of the tips? It sounds from your description that there might be a solid material inside of the tip, but a cross sectional view would certainly help in the understanding.

How does a "cut to size and shape" tip compare in mass to other tips?

Thanks.

While discussing the materials I used with Don Owens, we both agreed that this tip SHOULD actually have a higher specific gravity that a conventional tip. Although I haven't actually tested its' specific gravity.

This is what I believe is happening and it flies in the face of the accepted paradigm as to the cause of squirt.

When contacting the ball off center, the tip and to a lesser degree the shaft actually bend toward the center of the cueball during contact.

You can see this in high speed photography at the point of contact. Conventional tips bend significantly.

When the tip ceases contact, the shaft then flexes away from the cue ball due to the stresses that bent it in the opposite direction.

Without further testing in combination with high speed photography and comparative analysis between my tips and conventional tips I can't verify this, but I believe that the tip and shaft is bending the exact amount that the cueball deviates from the original aim line.

I believe that THIS is the mechanism that is the main causative factor in squirt.

That's why when I first designed the tip, I thought that squirt might be reduced, because the design prevents or at least minimizes sideways deformation of the tip during an off center contact.

Basically it is an encapsulation of the layered leather in a harder material. The harder material on the outside edges of the tip force the compression of the leather to be straight back toward the shaft.

The reason that pure solid phenolic tips don't do the same thing I believe is because the tip has little to no give at all, so it forces the shaft to bend in the direction toward center ball and it still points in an off direction compared to the original aimline when contact ceases.

My tips are completely shape-able with standard tip shapers, they will wear down just like other tips, but unlike other tips, performance doesn't suffer when the tip is left taller off of the ferule.

I'll include a solid 3d representation of the tip along with a wireframe of it to give you a better idea of what it looks like.

Jaden
 

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Yeah not the unable to miscue part...

An LD tip that you cannot miscue with? You'll make a fortune.

Cool name, too. Good luck with it.

No, the hybrid tip, which I haven't shown an illustration of yet has a different material in the center of the tip that is harder. Center ball hits can't miscue with any type of tip so what's in the center doesn't have to be a softer material that will grip the cueball better. This promotes better energy transfer on the center ball hits just like the harder tips that are used for break cues... but with your playing cue's tip and it still allows better grip on the shots with side spin.

Some will like it, some won't.

Jaden
 
Interesting cue tip.

What would the cost be like for such cue tips? Estimated around the pricing of a Kamui/Moori?
 
yes... it will be comparable..

Interesting cue tip.

What would the cost be like for such cue tips? Estimated around the pricing of a Kamui/Moori?

Yeah the end price should be comparable to a kamui black.

Jaden
 
I hope that you succeed in creating a quality product at a reasonable price. I believe that this approach to reducing squirt has potential.

Also, I don't think that what you're doing runs counter to the current approach of reducing the effective endmass of the cue. If I understand what's going on correctly, it seems like squirt is a cumulative effect including bunching of the tip, bending of the cue and the effective endmass as factors. That would mean putting this tip on a "low deflection" (lower endmass) shaft should result in even less squirt. Have you tried this out at all and quantified the effect?
 
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well

I hope that you succeed in creating a quality product at a reasonable price. I believe that this approach to reducing squirt has potential.

Also, I don't think that what you're doing runs counter to the current approach of reducing the effective endmass of the cue. If I understand what's going on correctly, it seems like squirt is a cumulative effect including bunching of the tip, bending of the cue and the effective endmass as factors. That would mean putting this tip on a "low deflection" (lower endmass) shaft should result in even less squirt. Have you tried this out at all and quantified the effect?

That is the one thing that I have not done yet. That will be my next test. The ld shaft on my current playing cue is too thin I think but I'll put it on one of my cues that has an ld shaft as well.

I also have a Mezz wd700 that I can try it on.

Jaden

One thing I have noticed is that with really flexible shaft there is more squirt on longer shots. Something to chew on
 
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I would like to be a ginea pig on this product ,,if that's OK--wouldn't mind trying one on my Szamboti and compare it to the SS Kamiua thats on the shafts now--
 
Next will be low deflection chalk. Just wait and see.
Pretty soon the cue ball will deflect in the wrong direction.
 
No, the hybrid tip, which I haven't shown an illustration of yet has a different material in the center of the tip that is harder. Center ball hits can't miscue with any type of tip so what's in the center doesn't have to be a softer material that will grip the cueball better. This promotes better energy transfer on the center ball hits just like the harder tips that are used for break cues... but with your playing cue's tip and it still allows better grip on the shots with side spin.

Some will like it, some won't.

Jaden

Jaden,

I'm not sure I fully understand how the low squirt tip thing might actually work but I think your out of the box thinking , so to speak, for center & offset hits can be a good thing.

I hope you have patents for all of this.

The best of luck with them.

Best Wishes,
Rick
 
I do have patents.

Jaden,

I'm not sure I fully understand how the low squirt tip thing might actually work but I think your out of the box thinking , so to speak, for center & offset hits can be a good thing.

I hope you have patents for all of this.

The best of luck with them.

Best Wishes,
Rick

Thank you. I do have patents. I was really excited when I got my confirmation letters from the us patent office. I had sent a teaser pm to Dr Dave before I had the patents not being able to really say much.

Jaden
 
Will be interesting to see how this progresses... I know from tons of testing that the hardest part of a tip is it's shoulder which is the main reason tips misscue if they are not properly burnished.....

Have you engineered or checked the COR measurements? I have access to lab equipment to do so if it's not available to you....

Chris
 
One benefit of this tip...

Will be interesting to see how this progresses... I know from tons of testing that the hardest part of a tip is it's shoulder which is the main reason tips misscue if they are not properly burnished.....

Have you engineered or checked the COR measurements? I have access to lab equipment to do so if it's not available to you....

Chris

Many people use more side spin than they need. One benefit of this tip is that if you go too far from center it will make a ping sound similar to the phenolic break tips. It still holds chalk and works on farther outside english shots, it just makes the ping sound, so if you'd like to train yourself to use less english as a rule, then this tip will help you do so by letting you know. Also if you're swooping because of stroke flaws, this lets you know it as well. What I mean by that is that if you're aiming close to center and you hear the ping, you know you have stroke flaws that you need to work out.

Jaden
 
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Many people use more side spin than they need. One benefit of this tip is that if you go too far from center it will make a ping sound similar to the phenolic break tips. It still holds chalk and works on farther outside english shots, it just makes the ping sound, so if you'd like to train yourself to use less english as a rule, then this tip will help you do so by letting you know. Also if you're swooping because of stroke flaws, this lets you know it as well. What I mean by that is that if you're aiming close to center and you hear the ping, you know you have stroke flaws that you need to work out.

Jaden

This is your gig so don't think I am horning in at all... I already have stated if someone makes a tip I can get behind I'll quit making em... If your center section has enough grab then just maybe... just maybe... the shoulder won't matter.... Royce challenged me to make a no chalk tip and I have proto-types sitting here.... Depending on what you are doing for your center section I may be able to help depending on you base material and processing....

Chris
 
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