One of the world's biggest ever seizures of illicit ivory - $3.4m

classiccues said:
First: When I see the ivory burned I cringe. It should be sold and the money should be invested in anti-poaching measures.

Second: Smokey, I disagree. If you readily do business with a culture that would hire a child as easily as hiring an adult, than that is strictly endorsing the practice. There is no excuse for it, if you know they do it and do business with that person, than its on you. Because that is probably the beginning of what that company is capable of or allows in its own business practices. He sees hiring a child as ok, than its probably ok to dump mercury in the riverr in 55 gallon drums on a daily basis. Or burn carcinogens and let factory workers work without masks.

Yes the US used to allow this kind of stuff, but it was YEARS ago and if I saw you stick your hand in a saw and cut it off, you better believe that I am not going to do the same thing.

JV
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I think that many laws are made based on generalizations or to protect a minority(in this case, an age group). Some of the hardest work I've done was when I was a kid. Sitting at a desk and crunching numbers? Ha, I nearly fall asleep. Helping to take care of acres of yard work as a kid, chopping wood and stuff like that, I was happy to get a few bucks to go play arcade games at the local LaVerdiere's drugstore.

If the girl in Smokey's story went to somebody for a job, who would I be to turn her down? We can't very well just buy everybody's happiness and well-being. Is it better to take the "moral high ground" and tell her to starve herself and her mother because she's young?

The same thing for countries outside of ours. Are you going to go to Botswana and tell them that they have to have a certified electrician check on their wiring before hooking a village up to the grid or any other power source? Do the Ethiopians need to be provided with the caloric intake of each meal? What applies in one place doesn't necessarily make sense somewhere else. Some things are universal, like knowing that you're abusing and taking advantage of another, but for the most part the rest is one big gray area.

Going down that road, we could discuss whether or not a system that promotes welfare as a viable alternative is doing more harm than good, including in terms of the influence it has on children(and the multiplication of). Is that better than a system in which people are allowed a choice of working at an earlier age?
 
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Fatboy thanks for the posts in this thread. I always say to my sons, dont believe everything you read or hear on tv, because so much of it is being produced with an agenda that is not always transparent.

This thread has been illuminating.

<~~~~ cannot be convinced to stop liking ivory in pool cues no matter what I read or hear.
 
Banks said:
I think that many laws are made based on generalizations or to protect a minority(in this case, an age group). Some of the hardest work I've done was when I was a kid. Sitting at a desk and crunching numbers? Ha, I nearly fall asleep. Helping to take care of acres of yard work as a kid, chopping wood and stuff like that, I was happy to get a few bucks to go play arcade games at the local LaVerdiere's drugstore.

If the girl in Smokey's story went to somebody for a job, who would I be to turn her down? We can't very well just buy everybody's happiness and well-being. Is it better to take the "moral high ground" and tell her to starve herself and her mother because she's young?

The same thing for countries outside of ours. Are you going to go to Botswana and tell them that they have to have a certified electrician check on their wiring before hooking a village up to the grid or any other power source? Do the Ethiopians need to be provided with the caloric intake of each meal? What applies in one place doesn't necessarily make sense somewhere else. Some things are universal, like knowing that you're abusing and taking advantage of another, but for the most part the rest is one big gray area.

Going down that road, we could discuss whether or not a system that promotes welfare as a viable alternative is doing more harm than good, including in terms of the influence it has on children(and the multiplication of). Is that better than a system in which people are allowed a choice of working at an earlier age?
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I also worked as a kid, however I was making better than average money and I wasn't forced to work. Which isn't the case in many of these factories. I do not need to convince myself on any level that a child forced into labor, and sometimes more than 16 hours a day, is ok by any measure, anywhere on the planet.

JV
 
I'm very tired of self righteous do-gooders
prescribing their remedies for the rest of
the world. Then conveniently ignoring or
denying the negative consequences of
their actions.

Not all "child labor" is bad. Every elephant
death is not a tragedy. Every person on
food stamps is not lazy! Every democrat is
not stupid and every republican is not a
money monger.

The problems arise from blanket remedies,
or definitions that cannot possibly satisfy
every situation.

Let the folk who have elephants decide what
is best for them and the elephants. Let the people
suffering from starvation decide which evil is worse.
Who the hell decided "we" know what is best for them!

Please save me from the do-gooders!

AS for democrats and republicans.....
I say .45 autos at 15 yards. GO
 
Sorry, meant to expand.

He hunted the least fortunate and people who were in a jam financially with the credit card/ credit fix biz. It's the greatest hunting he'll ever do.

Back at the air conditioned hut with satellite feeds, we find our hero asleep.

ring.... ring.... ring.....

Good Morning Mr. Eric of the highest Order
Yes you're reached him.
Oh thank you Mr. Eric, MMjabouibi has located the game you ordered from your tv set selling channel and our custom Hummer Limo will be by in 10 minutes to take you to your prize kill.

Ok, this wont take long will it, I need to be somewhere so I can be seen.
No Mr. Eric of the highest order, this will not take long. MMjaboubi will load the rifle, steady the rifle and aim it at the target. All you have to do is roll down the window of the Hummer Limo and pull the trigger.

I notice that you offer a picture afterwards with the slain beast.
Yes Mr. Eric, after you pull the trigger, our scouts will make sure the animal who caused you such harm is dead, and you can come put your boot on his face, then we will snap a picture of you, or we have someone who will do a large canvas painting in acrylic for your mansion fireplace.




TheThaiger said:
Care to expand on your first paragraph?

You are bang-on with your point about hunting for recreation. An army of wealthy chinese corporate types descending on Africa in years to come doesn't bear thinking about. This is not necessarily about what happens to elephants today; rather, the message it sends out and what happens to everything else tomorrow.
Click to expand...
 
Celtic said:
So it is nothing like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-6V5HaSZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQjjJmOVv2U

Because I have hunted quite alot and this is pretty weak IMO.
Click to expand...


It can take 3 hours of stalking to get into position to shoot a elephant like that(I only wathed the first video) but yeah thats how it goes. Getting in that close is very very difficult. It looks easy(so does running 100 & out when Willie is playing 14.1) but it isn't easy. They can smell people and charge when your that close, you have to work your way in. I have shot some off the stix and free hand.
 
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