One Pocket decision
- Thread starter 1 Pocket Ghost
- Start date
3 Thoughts....
1. I've been saying for some time now, he has the best MIND for pool. A genius when it comes to matching up, odds, game management. Maybe the best EVER in that area.
2. I make a copy of everything he posts so I can keep studying what he says. What insight! Not every pro is a poolologist. He is.
3. I'm so glad he contributes here. We're unbelievably fortunate.
AZE said:
1. I've been saying for some time now, he has the best MIND for pool. A genius when it comes to matching up, odds, game management. Maybe the best EVER in that area.
2. I make a copy of everything he posts so I can keep studying what he says. What insight! Not every pro is a poolologist. He is.
3. I'm so glad he contributes here. We're unbelievably fortunate.
Maybe I'm confused, too; isn't the two-railer the 'tougher' shot?Neil said:I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. It almost seems like people that play primarily one pocket don't like shooting the 'tougher' shots.
Granted, I have a bar table with 4 1/8" pockets, but I just tried this shot a number of times. I made the 2 railer once. 70% of the time I was still able to cut in the one. The other 30% that I missed it, I was able to get safe at the other end of the table. ????
wincardona said:
Unlike some back and forth post debates on other threads, I'm really too lazy and not aggro enough to debate back and forth, but I will say a few things.....
First off, let me just say that I think you, and Grady, and Freddy are all extremely knowledgable and insightful analyzers of the game of One Pocket - and I respect that.
That said, before I respond to your post, I want to say that forum-credibilty-knowledge-wise, as evidenced by other posters in this thread, you are way more acknowledged than I am, and I feel compelled to address that mismatch a little.....To do that, I'm going to copy here an excerpt from sage Billiards Digest editor/writer George Fels' November 2006 back page column, wherein he wrote some words about me re. One Pocket....And it goes without saying, that George is one of the most knowledgable people in the world of pool and One Pocket - he's watched it played in person, from Jersey Red, Ervolino, Boston Shorty, and Ronnie, to Artie, Bugs, and Efren.....George wrote and I quote:
" Bruce is a remarkable visualizer and if visual ability were all that counted in One Pocket he'd be very near national-class. His knowledge of the game is such that he has had an impressive roster of students".
Ok, back to your post.....
First off, over at onepocket.org, on the parallel thread to this one, you very correctly stated that what is the right shot for one person is not necessarily the right shot for another player - that said, I don't think you're staying consistent =
What I posted in post #36, and that you responded to, was my having said: "for me, the pocket size would not play into it"........The operative and important part of this statement was "for me"......maybe based on my own moving preferences, or how straight I don't shoot
, or whatever.....I didn't say whether considering pocket size, was right or wrong for somebody else.Peace, Ghost
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Very well worded....
I agree,it sounds like Billy is contradicting himself with regards to the other parallel post.Then again,Billy is not the most humble person in the world.There are things I love about him,but not everything
I am impressed with what you wrote here.Very well articulated.Sad but true,in the pool world,players "worship" good players and believe their every word above others.If you start beating them good players,then they will worship you and believe your every word.1 Pocket Ghost said:Unlike some back and forth post debates on other threads, I'm really too lazy and not aggro enough to debate back and forth, but I will say a few things.....
First off, let me just say that I think you, and Grady, and Freddy are all extremely knowledgable and insightful analyzers of the game of One Pocket - and I respect that.
That said, before I respond to your post, I want to say that forum-credibilty-knowledge-wise, as evidenced by other posters in this thread, you are way more acknowledged than I am, and I feel compelled to address that mismatch a little.....To do that, I'm going to copy here an excerpt from sage Billiards Digest editor/writer George Fels' November 2006 back page column, wherein he wrote some words about me re. One Pocket....And it goes without saying, that George is one of the most knowledgable people in the world of pool.....George wrote and I quote:
" Bruce is a remarkable visualizer and if visual ability were all that counted in One Pocket he'd be very near national-class. His knowledge of the game is such that he has had an impressive roster of students".
Ok, back to your post.....
First off, over at onepocket.org, on the parallel thread to this one, you very correctly stated that what is the right shot for one person is not necessarily the right shot for another player - that said, I don't think you're staying consistent =
What I posted in post #36, and that you responded to, was my having said: "for me, the pocket size would not play into it"........The operative and important part of this statement was "for me"......maybe based on my own moving preferences, or how straight I don't shoot
- Ghost
I agree,it sounds like Billy is contradicting himself with regards to the other parallel post.Then again,Billy is not the most humble person in the world.There are things I love about him,but not everything
I set this shot up on 2 different tables, a Diamond and a Gold Crown. I have to absolutely agree with Billy and the other members who say the 2 railer is the shot here. When I first looked at it, I thought the cb was going to come out too far for shape on the 1, but I was wrong. I had close to perfect shape EVERY time.
Great call on the 2 railer guys!
Great call on the 2 railer guys!
1 Pocket Ghost said:Unlike some back and forth post debates on other threads, I'm really too lazy and not aggro enough to debate back and forth, but I will say a few things.....
First off, let me just say that I think you, and Grady, and Freddy are all extremely knowledgable and insightful analyzers of the game of One Pocket - and I respect that.
That said, before I respond to your post, I want to say that forum-credibilty-knowledge-wise, as evidenced by other posters in this thread, you are way more acknowledged than I am, and I feel compelled to address that mismatch a little.....To do that, I'm going to copy here an excerpt from sage Billiards Digest editor/writer George Fels' November 2006 back page column, wherein he wrote some words about me re. One Pocket....And it goes without saying, that George is one of the most knowledgable people in the world of pool and One Pocket - he's watched it played in person, from Jersey Red, Ervolino, Boston Shorty, and Ronnie, to Artie, Bugs, and Efren.....George wrote and I quote:
" Bruce is a remarkable visualizer and if visual ability were all that counted in One Pocket he'd be very near national-class. His knowledge of the game is such that he has had an impressive roster of students".
Ok, back to your post.....
First off, over at onepocket.org, on the parallel thread to this one, you very correctly stated that what is the right shot for one person is not necessarily the right shot for another player - that said, I don't think you're staying consistent =
What I posted in post #36, and that you responded to, was my having said: "for me, the pocket size would not play into it"........The operative and important part of this statement was "for me"......maybe based on my own moving preferences, or how straight I don't shoot
Peace, Ghost
Well, this is the thing, isn't it. It depends on *your* strengths and weaknesses, and even how you're hitting them and your comfort level at that particular point in the match.
Personally, the two-railer is not my best shot. So there is no way on God's good green Simonis covered earth that I'm shooting the two-railer and passing up a cinch to get on the hill.
Now if I'm a world famous player, or have a couple of books and/or DVDs out there on banking, well, then maybe I shoot the two-railer first. But in any case, playing within your game is most certainly the right move.
Lou Figueroa
Roy Steffensen said:
If I were playing Efren I would definitely prefer going for the out by 2 railing the 5 as opposed to trying to win a moving battle if I miss the straight back bank on the 5 after the 1.
If you know how to play the 5 at pocket speed and can leave it on the rail, then you would put anyone in a world of hurt; even Efren. Of course for me the 2-railer is a high enough percentage shot that it is well worth the risk.
Once again
Bruce, first I would like to start off by saying that I also acknowledge you as being an excellent one pocket player,especially considering how straight you dont shoot. Secondly I would also like to add that George Fels in my opinion is hands down the best at what he does. His writings,particularly about pool & billiards is second to none, but he isn't regarded as being an acknowledged analyst on onepocket but he does have a very good feel for all pool games. Now I would like to address the statement that you made that I contradicted myself when I said that the right shot for one person may not be the right shot for someone else, and then following that up with not respecting your preference in choosing the right shot for you.Bruce I do respect your right to choose what shot is best for you,but that's not the debate.The debate is that you didn't respect the fact that pocket size should always be factored in,and it should. Playing on 4 1/4 inch pockets balls are worth much more than they are playing on 4 1/2 inch pockets,and whenever you have an oportunity to tie the game 7-7 I think it would be foolish for anyone not to take advantage of the opportunity,including yourself. Once again , pocket size should always be factored in ,in your decision making,particularly in your interesting choice of shots that you presented.
1 Pocket Ghost said:Unlike some back and forth post debates on other threads, I'm really too lazy and not aggro enough to debate back and forth, but I will say a few things.....
First off, let me just say that I think you, and Grady, and Freddy are all extremely knowledgable and insightful analyzers of the game of One Pocket - and I respect that.
That said, before I respond to your post, I want to say that forum-credibilty-knowledge-wise, as evidenced by other posters in this thread, you are way more acknowledged than I am, and I feel compelled to address that mismatch a little.....To do that, I'm going to copy here an excerpt from sage Billiards Digest editor/writer George Fels' November 2006 back page column, wherein he wrote some words about me re. One Pocket....And it goes without saying, that George is one of the most knowledgable people in the world of pool and One Pocket - he's watched it played in person, from Jersey Red, Ervolino, Boston Shorty, and Ronnie, to Artie, Bugs, and Efren.....George wrote and I quote:
" Bruce is a remarkable visualizer and if visual ability were all that counted in One Pocket he'd be very near national-class. His knowledge of the game is such that he has had an impressive roster of students".
Ok, back to your post.....
First off, over at onepocket.org, on the parallel thread to this one, you very correctly stated that what is the right shot for one person is not necessarily the right shot for another player - that said, I don't think you're staying consistent =
What I posted in post #36, and that you responded to, was my having said: "for me, the pocket size would not play into it"........The operative and important part of this statement was "for me"......maybe based on my own moving preferences, or how straight I don't shoot
Peace, Ghost
Bruce, first I would like to start off by saying that I also acknowledge you as being an excellent one pocket player,especially considering how straight you dont shoot. Secondly I would also like to add that George Fels in my opinion is hands down the best at what he does. His writings,particularly about pool & billiards is second to none, but he isn't regarded as being an acknowledged analyst on onepocket but he does have a very good feel for all pool games. Now I would like to address the statement that you made that I contradicted myself when I said that the right shot for one person may not be the right shot for someone else, and then following that up with not respecting your preference in choosing the right shot for you.Bruce I do respect your right to choose what shot is best for you,but that's not the debate.The debate is that you didn't respect the fact that pocket size should always be factored in,and it should. Playing on 4 1/4 inch pockets balls are worth much more than they are playing on 4 1/2 inch pockets,and whenever you have an oportunity to tie the game 7-7 I think it would be foolish for anyone not to take advantage of the opportunity,including yourself. Once again , pocket size should always be factored in ,in your decision making,particularly in your interesting choice of shots that you presented.
lets clear it up.
Bruce ,when you presented this shot choice,you said that the one was a sure thing, right? Lets say you pocket the one,now what is the chances of you winning that game? at least 50%-50% agreed? If you agree with that then if you chose the two railer you would have to feel that you would win at least 50% of the time, right? For a top player shooting into 4 1/4 inch pockets ,choosing the two rail option,he will not win 50% of the time.For a lesser player choosing the two railer the odds are even less,meaning he will not win as often as the top player.
Take the same prop and shoot on a table with 4 1/2 inch pockets and the top player now becomes the favorite to win the game shooting the two railer,but not by much. The lesser player shooting the two railer still remains the underdog.Depending on the grade of the lesser playerC-D-or E determines how much of an underdog he is. The E player will be more of a dog than the C player.
wincardona said:
Bruce ,when you presented this shot choice,you said that the one was a sure thing, right? Lets say you pocket the one,now what is the chances of you winning that game? at least 50%-50% agreed? If you agree with that then if you chose the two railer you would have to feel that you would win at least 50% of the time, right? For a top player shooting into 4 1/4 inch pockets ,choosing the two rail option,he will not win 50% of the time.For a lesser player choosing the two railer the odds are even less,meaning he will not win as often as the top player.
Take the same prop and shoot on a table with 4 1/2 inch pockets and the top player now becomes the favorite to win the game shooting the two railer,but not by much. The lesser player shooting the two railer still remains the underdog.Depending on the grade of the lesser playerC-D-or E determines how much of an underdog he is. The E player will be more of a dog than the C player.
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Billy,wincardona said:
I sent u a pm. Please respond when u have the opportunity.
To Clarify
wincardona said:
Cutting the 1 ball
Neil, I know you've asked this question twice, so since nobody else has responded to you, I will.....
The first time you posted this you said: "granted, I'm making the cut shot shooting on my bar table at home"......Well, that's a world of difference from making it on a tight pocket 9-footer......And if you go back and look at the shot diagram, you would be cutting the ball backwards from dead-frozen on the rail - I don't think the average/decent player is the favorite to make it - and I will bet on that opinion...........Now you could possibly make a case that Larry Nevel, or John Schmidt, or Mika is the favorite shooting this cut shot off of the rail, but I don't think even they are.......Hey John, maybe if you're reading this, you could tell us if you're the favorite or not to make this cut more than 50% of the time.
- Ghost
Neil said:
Neil, I know you've asked this question twice, so since nobody else has responded to you, I will.....
The first time you posted this you said: "granted, I'm making the cut shot shooting on my bar table at home"......Well, that's a world of difference from making it on a tight pocket 9-footer......And if you go back and look at the shot diagram, you would be cutting the ball backwards from dead-frozen on the rail - I don't think the average/decent player is the favorite to make it - and I will bet on that opinion...........Now you could possibly make a case that Larry Nevel, or John Schmidt, or Mika is the favorite shooting this cut shot off of the rail, but I don't think even they are.......Hey John, maybe if you're reading this, you could tell us if you're the favorite or not to make this cut more than 50% of the time.
- Ghost
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DeadPoked said:
I did.....
Neil said:
Now you've got me confused....Your opponent shot the 2-railer and missed it, but left it sitting in front of his pocket, so how in the world are you not leaving a shot when you miss your cut on the 1 ball ???