Only 2 U.S. players?

[JCIN]

I agree, SVB is the only brave enough US player to rumble with the world. Very admirable. The rest are just too afraid of not making it in the top ten. It's as if nobody is thinking the same the thing, but they are out there trying their best to be number 1. Anyway it's their choice not to go.

These world events are usually about as organized as a drunken goat rope. They pop up from nowhere it seems or get cancelled a month in advance no one knows who's invited and who isn't. The fact that some here seem to romanticize these things tells me they haven't actually had much experience with them.

 

[framptonl]

So because a guy doesnt want to spend $3000 and fly half way around the world to play a race to nine 9 Ball no one is in it to win it? Its just another tournament for those who havent figured it out yet. Just because someone puts World Championship on it doesnt mean a damn thing. I will guarantee if I ask 100 AZ members who won the last five 9 Ball World Championships in order MAYBE ten would know. Thats 10% of the most hard core fans in the pool world. Its just another pain in the ass international event with a really mediocre prize fund compared to the cost and hassle of playing.

The Euro/Brit players love and train for the international events. They have a different mindset as well. Look at the Euro Tour. If you tried to do the Euro Tour in the US players would actually laugh in your face and they would be right. Something else to remember is that for a lot of the Euro players they either have some form of support from player unions or all this is still relatively new to them. As in been doing it for less than ten years professionally. It's easy to want roll dice going all over the world when the fire burns and everything looks bright and exciting. Its another thing to do it when the mortgage is due and you have seen the movie ten times already.

Personally I could give a shit less what happens at some event I can't watch.

If you gave a prize away I bet you get more responses to to who won the last five World 9-ball Championships.

Seriously though, don't most of the non-US players get expenses paid to go to the World's? That in itself is a huge deal maker.

 

[gopi-1]

If you gave a prize away I bet you get more responses to to who won the last five World 9-ball Championships.

Seriously though, don't most of the non-US players get expenses paid to go to the World's? That in itself is a huge deal maker.

Pinoys have the private sector to fund their trips abroad. They've proved their worth, and they got backers to show for it...

 

[JumpinJoe]

Pool in the U.S is going nowhere. It does not matter what ANYONE says its kust the facts. Theres no kids that play nowadays, so no new generation of players to come. All you have are the older players mostly that have ruined any and everything they have been involved with.
Some here may not like international events but if you want to play pool for a living your better off living overseas, theres just more events over there and in return it would cut your expenses down.

The only pool ever going to happen in the U.S. and boom is pool leagues. Theres no pro tour for men or women and it dont look like it can change anytime soon.

I love the game and feel kinda bad for people that cant do anything other than pool because it makes for a rough living.

 

[jay helfert]

Say what you want but to me it's embarrassing that a country that used to rule the pool world has trouble getting anyone to play the most important international events. The top American players could play if they truly wanted to. They could find backing just like the Pinoys do (all of them have private backer/sponsors). The Pinoys (and many others) want to play! Some of them travel halfway around the world just to play in qualifiers. Now that's dedication!

Regardless of whether the event is televised internationally or not (the final 64 is slated for live internet coverage), this is not a minor event by any means. To say otherwise is an injustice to the country that produces this tournament. 300K in prize money is not chopped liver! Sure it's not golf or tennis money but some player will win $40,000 this week and that ain't bad no matter how you cut it. Just to make the final 64 ($2,000) is enough to break even on expenses. I saw flights for under $1,200 from the USA on Priceline only a few weeks ago. A shared room is only about $200 each.

Interesting that the rest of the top players globally find a way to get there. There situation is not unlike the American players, they need help to pay for the trip as well. But they actively seek that help, just like the best American players (Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Strickland, Archer etc.) used to do in the old days. Of course we were on top then so maybe that's the answer. The US players today don't want to fade the work involved in getting back to the top of the heap. And just maybe they're afraid to take on the world's best players, like the Europeans had to do for so many years. Only Shane has that desire, and Hunter who is not even a top ten player here.

I won't call them out here, but I want to know what's up with these guys. Why aren't they there? Maybe Brandon would have played if he was actually invited by someone. That invite should come from the BCA or maybe the ABP. If it didn't, I wonder why not. Something is amiss in this country when it comes to professional pool and it's not because of poker or the soft economy. I say it's a lack of desire and the dedication it takes to succeed at this very difficult sport. I'm not buying all the excuses or the "reasons" offered here. You're either a pool player or you're not. And I see a lot of NOTS right now. Too bad.

 

[JCIN]

Say what you want but to me it's embarrassing that a country that used to rule the pool world has trouble getting anyone to play the most important international events. The top American players could play if they truly wanted to. They could find backing just like the Pinoys do (all of them have private backer/sponsors). The Pinoys (and many others) want to play! Some of them travel halfway around the world just to play in qualifiers. Now that's dedication!

Regardless of whether the event is televised internationally or not (the final 64 is slated for live internet coverage), this is not a minor event by any means. To say otherwise is an injustice to the country that produces this tournament. 300K in prize money is not chopped liver! Sure it's not golf or tennis money but some player will win $40,000 this week and that ain't bad no matter how you cut it. Just to make the final 64 ($2,000) is enough to break even on expenses. I saw flights for under $1,200 from the USA on Priceline only a few weeks ago. A shared room is only about $200 each.

Interesting that the rest of the top players globally find a way to get there. There situation is not unlike the American players, they need help to pay for the trip as well. But they actively seek that help, just like the best American players (Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Strickland, Archer etc.) used to do in the old days. Of course we were on top then so maybe that's the answer. The US players today don't want to fade the work involved in getting back to the top of the heap. And just maybe they're afraid to take on the world's best players, like the Europeans had to do for so many years. Only Shane has that desire, and Hunter who is not even a top ten player here.

I won't call them out here, but I want to know what's up with these guys. Why aren't they there? Maybe Brandon would have played if he was actually invited by someone. That invite should come from the BCA or maybe the ABP. If it didn't, I wonder why not. Something is amiss in this country when it comes to professional pool and it's not because of poker or the soft economy. I say it's a lack of desire and the dedication it takes to succeed at this very difficult sport. I'm not buying all the excuses or the "reasons" offered here. You're either a pool player or you're not. And I see a lot of NOTS right now. Too bad.

Its about money. Risk vs reward. Taking flyers for glory gets really old. I really don't see why you think the American players owe anything to anyone when it comes to international events. If it was really that big of a deal to any significant amount of people there would be a system in place to send the top two or three guys. No one cares though so why should the players ?

 

[softshot]

So because a guy doesnt want to spend $3000 and fly half way around the world to play a race to nine 9 Ball no one is in it to win it? Its just another tournament for those who havent figured it out yet. Just because someone puts World Championship on it doesnt mean a damn thing. I will guarantee if I ask 100 AZ members who won the last five 9 Ball World Championships in order MAYBE ten would know. Thats 10% of the most hard core fans in the pool world. Its just another pain in the ass international event with a really mediocre prize fund compared to the cost and hassle of playing.

The Euro/Brit players love and train for the international events. They have a different mindset as well. Look at the Euro Tour. If you tried to do the Euro Tour in the US players would actually laugh in your face and they would be right. Something else to remember is that for a lot of the Euro players they either have some form of support from player unions or all this is still relatively new to them. As in been doing it for less than ten years professionally. It's easy to want roll dice going all over the world when the fire burns and everything looks bright and exciting. Its another thing to do it when the mortgage is due and you have seen the movie ten times already.

Personally I could give a shit less what happens at some event I can't watch.

There are 596 members of the US olympic team.. EACH of which has spent 10's of thousands of dollars just this year on training..

1 or 2 of them MIGHT get on a Wheaties box ..most gold medal winners won't.....they all get respect not because they demand it.. but because they are driven to be the best...

guarantee you this no Olympians are going to chop the pawn take of their medals..

World pool SHOULD distance themselves from the Joke "Professionals" in American pool.. they flat out DON'T MATTER.. they don't even compete not even in tournament finals...

chopping the money on the ride home...ain't gonna earn NOBODY'S respect..

4 of the 5 best pool players living in America aren't even American.

it's a fkn joke.. if you want it to get better then you need to stop making excuses for it.

 

[JCIN]

There are 596 members of the US olympic team.. EACH of which has spent 10's of thousands of dollars just this year on training..

1 or 2 of them MIGHT get on a Wheaties box ..most gold medal winners won't.....they all get respect not because they demand it.. but because they are driven to be the best...

guarantee you this no Olympians are going to chop the pawn take of their medals..

World pool SHOULD distance themselves from the Joke "Professionals" in American pool.. they flat out DON'T MATTER.. they don't even compete not even in tournament finals...

chopping the money on the ride home...ain't gonna earn NOBODY'S respect..

4 of the 5 best pool players living in America aren't even American.

it's a fkn joke.. if you want it to get better then you need to stop making excuses for it.

I dont need to do anything sir. When it comes to trying to make things better I think I have done a shitload more than b!tch on a message board so you can stow that shit right now.

As for the Olympics...lets just compare some apples and basketballs. It would make as much sense.

The pro's in this country have things to address. I have been and will continue to try to push those points across to the ones I work with. Taking heat because they choose not to take some wild ass flyer for some title no one will give a shit about in six months isn't one of them.

 

[sjm]

Its about money. Risk vs reward. Taking flyers for glory gets really old. I really don't see why you think the American players owe anything to anyone when it comes to international events. If it was really that big of a deal to any significant amount of people there would be a system in place to send the top two or three guys. No one cares though so why should the players ?

Points are well taken, but the risk/reward dynamics of participation are very much a function of how little effort, relative to other stars of international pool, American pro players (not named Shane) have made in recent times to keep their competitive performances on a par with the stars of Europe and Asia.

Agreed that the American pro players owe us nothing as far as international participation is concerned, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to see such a dramatic decline in their work ethic, pedigree and self-esteem.

Finally, it is most definitely not the responsiblity of American pool promoters or pool's fans to finance the participation of American pros in WPA World Championships, and to suggest that their failure to provide such financing evidences their apathy is both mistaken and unfair.

 

[itsfroze]

I agree, SVB is the only brave enough US player to rumble with the world. Very admirable. The rest are just too afraid of not making it in the top ten. It's as if nobody is thinking the same the thing, but they are out there trying their best to be number 1. Anyway it's their choice not to go.

That would be true if another American player hadn't played that was Hunter Lombardo, just saying.

 

[jay helfert]

Its about money. Risk vs reward. Taking flyers for glory gets really old. I really don't see why you think the American players owe anything to anyone when it comes to international events. If it was really that big of a deal to any significant amount of people there would be a system in place to send the top two or three guys. No one cares though so why should the players ?

Sorry Justin but I have to disagree with you once more. They don't owe anything to anyone except themselves! They have spent years of their life developing the skills to be among the best at this game. Do you really believe they should quit now when they have a chance to reach the top of their profession? I think they call this pride; in themselves and the journey they embarked on years ago.

I guarantee you that it is important and it does matter to a lot of people who the best players are. Maybe you don't care but even in this "minor" sport there are literally millions of people who do. Take a look sometime at how heads turn when Shane Van Boening walks through the halls at the BCA. And the only way to get that acclaim is to compete against the best, whenever and wherever you can. Shane is also recognized in the Philippines, China and yes, even in the Middle East. Shane IS American Pool! And that makes him a marketable commodity. His picture has been in pool magazines worldwide, not just in the USA. And he's been on television in front of worldwide audiences many times now. ESPN is not the only network that televises pool and some of the other major networks give it excellent coverage.

I have been with Mika at the airport in Cebu when he was recognized by some security guards and asked to have his picture taken with them. I know this is not like someone handing him money, but if you're a famous player opportunities will come your way. I can attest to that as I've been helping players negotiate deals and contracts for years. The best players get asked to do exhibitions, make personal appearances, give lessons, and play in special events (yes, like TAR). And get sponsorship! This all means money in their pocket and the ability to make a living as a professional pool player.

How does this happen? Well, it's not by accident. They have to earn it. And how do they accomplish this? Well, winning major tournaments is one very good way that I know of. The world champions get the deals! It's that simple. Efren and Francisco could book a tour across America today and there would be dozens of poolrooms and private shows available to them. I am constantly being asked to make arrangements for Dennis Orcollo to come to various pool rooms. The reason is obvious. He has proven himself to be a superior player in tournaments all over the globe. Thus he is in demand.

Say what you want, but the top American players need to strengthen their games and get back in the fray. That's the bottom line unless they want to remain minor leaguer's. Hunter realizes this fact and that's why he's out there fighting the good fight. There is no short cut to pool stardom or the money that goes with it.

 

[itsfroze]

I don't think that a blanket statement of no one cares is even close to the truth!

It's certainly not my truth, and I feel there are many others that feel the same as me.


Quote from: Jay Helfert,
Say what you want, but the top American players need to strengthen their games and get back in the fray. That's the bottom line unless they want to remain minor leaguer's. Hunter realizes this fact and that's why he's out there fighting the good fight. There is no short cut to pool stardom.

Agree with this quote from Jay and the rest of his post (51), well said!

 

[JCIN]

Sorry Justin but I have to disagree with you once more. They don't owe anything to anyone except themselves! They have spent years of their life developing the skills to be among the best at this game. Do you really believe they should quit now when they have a chance to reach the top of their profession? I think they call this pride; in themselves and the journey they embarked on years ago.

I guarantee you that it is important and it does matter to a lot of people who the best players are. Maybe you don't care but even in this "minor" sport there are literally millions of people who do. Take a look sometime at how heads turn when Shane Van Boening walks through the halls at the BCA. And the only way to get that acclaim is to compete against the best, wherever and whenever you can. Shane is also recognized in the Philippines, China and yes, even in the Middle East. Shane IS American Pool! And that makes him a marketable commodity. His picture has been in pool magazines worldwide, not just in the USA. And he's been on television in front of worldwide audiences many times now. ESPN is not the only network that televises pool and some of the other major networks give it excellent coverage.

I have been with Mika at the airport in Cebu when he was recognized by some security guards and asked to have his picture taken with them. I know this is not like someone handing him money, but if you're a famous player opportunities will come your way. I can attest to that as I've been helping players negotiate deals and contracts for years. The best players get asked to do exhibitions, make personal appearances, give lessons, and play in special events (yes, like TAR). And get sponsorship! This all means money in their pocket and the ability to make a living as a professional pool player.

How does this happen? Well, it's not by accident. They have to earn it. And how do they accomplish this? Well, winning major tournaments is one very good way that I know of. The world champions get the deals! It's that simple. Efren and Francisco could book a tour across America today and there would be dozens of poolrooms and private shows available to them. I am constantly being asked to make arrangements for Dennis Orcollo to come to various pool rooms. The reason is obvious. He has proven himself to be a superior player in tournaments all over the globe. Thus he is in demand.

Say what you want, but the top American players need to strengthen their games and get back in the fray. That's the bottom line unless they want to remain minor leaguer's. Hunter realizes this fact and that's why he's out there fighting the good fight. There is no short cut to pool stardom or the money that goes with it.

Jay at one time you were one of the top promoters in pool. Why did you stop? You were striving to be the best you could at something. Pool promoters in Asia seem to be able to keep putting on big events why can't the US promoters do the same?

Looks a little different from the other side doesn't it?

 

[JumpinJoe]

American pros are a joke. Dont fight this matter with Justin, hes going to take thier side. And 99% of american pros dont want to work, nor try and get better at thier trade so they deserve to stay broke and in the dumps, period. There may be 3/5 americans that are actually trying.

I can name only 3, ill leave room for 2 i possibly missed.
svb
shuff
dechaine

 

[JCIN]

I don't think that a blanket statement of no one cares is even close to the truth!

It's certainly not my truth, and I feel there are many others that feel the same as me.

Would you pay $50 to send a player to world event?

Lets even say that the deal is the player gets the first $5000 he wins and everything after that must be donated to charity.

Now if something like that would make sense all you need is thirty nine other people who care enough about the subject to spend what dinner for two at a chain restaurant costs and you can send a US player to a world tournament and help restore the prestige of the American pool game. I have no doubt you would have more than a few players to choose from.

If the answer is "I'm not paying $50 for an American player to go to a world event." Then my opinion is you don't really care all that much in the first place aside from a passing interest in perhaps reading a press release one day about how some American won one.

If you would be willing to spend $50 and others would too I pledge my $50 as the number 40 man in the stack.

 

[JCIN]

American pros are a joke. Dont fight this matter with Justin, hes going to take thier side. And 99% of american pros dont want to work, nor try and get better at thier trade so they deserve to stay broke and in the dumps, period. There may be 3/5 americans that are actually trying.

I can name only 3, ill leave room for 2 i possibly missed.
svb
shuff
dechaine

Dude have you ever read anything I have ever written over the last five years about the pro game in the US? This all or nothing on an issue is kindergarden shit.

JAM has put out hits on me for railing against pro's in this country on certain topics. At least get your facts somewhat straight before you make sweeping generalizations about what I am going to do.

Keep up the hating though because thats how you make things better.

 

[softshot]

As for the Olympics...lets just compare some apples and basketballs. It would make as much sense.

Bullshit... If it weren't for the con man, money chopping shitstain of American Pro pool .. Billiards would already be an Olympic sport

it takes just as much time , dedication, and hard work to become world class at pool as it does to become world class at anything else

and you Ain't "World Class" unless you compete with the rest of the world

 

[JCIN]

Bullshit... If it weren't for the con man, money chopping shitstain of American Pro pool .. Billiards would already be an Olympic sport

it takes just as much time , dedication, and hard work to become world class at pool as it does to become world class at anything else

and you Ain't "World Class" unless you compete with the rest of the world

I'm curious are you a female? Because you argue like one. Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

I do love how some people are trying to explain things to me about the pro game in the US though. I appreciate the education. Thanks for your time.

 

[itsfroze]

I agree with Sjm's post in this thread where he says this:

Quote from: SJM,
Finally, it is most definitely not the responsibility of American pool promoters or pool's fans to finance the participation of American pros in WPA World Championships, and to suggest that their failure to provide such financing evidences their apathy is both mistaken and unfair.
-------------------
Having said I agree with what SJM wrote, I would still put up $50 to help send a player to a WPA event. However you can forget about the deal you spoke of.
Everyone gets their money back first and then the player gets paid.
He's not putting up any money so he's not taking a chance, there for he gets paid last. If he doesn't feel confident enough about his game to go for that deal, then I don't feel confident enough to put up any money.
He's getting a free ride and a chance to win. Other wise he's not in the tournament and has no chance at all to win.

But Justin your line from an earlier post that said,
"No one cares though so why should the players ?"
Is total BS and just a cop out. If their not doing what
their doing because they care and have pride in themselves
and what they do, then their finished anyway!

Anyone who chooses to become a Professional Pool Player
should be doing everything they can to get better and to get themselves to every "World Championship Event" that they can play in or just quit and go find something else to do. But with that goes calling themselves a Professional Pool Player too.

Don't go trying laying blame on me for their lack of initiative or work ethic or say if I won't put up money for them to travel over seas and play in a tournament that I don't care. Why because that's just not true, and your welcome to believe that or not but that's my opinion.

 

[itsfroze]

forget this post