...and snooker players exclusively use an open one?
Open- or closed-bridge hand and gloves?
- Thread starter JAM
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Doesn't answer my question. I'm seriously wondering why Carom players use a closed bridge.
My apologies... I didn't fully mean to come off like a dick. However the point still stands. A full bore power draw shot can be had without the need for a closed bridge. It really boils down to the quality of the mechanics. I understand using a closed bridge is easier than dialing in mechanics at that spd. ...but it is still a bandaid for a sub par stroke.
I don't play Carom so I can't answer, but my reply via question does open the door for probably a very relevant comparison.
I think it's mostly tradition, but carom (3C) has a lot of power and spin shots that will test the behavior of your grip hand. Also, carom players generally have a higher stance which may affect things. Carom has a set of closed bridges that the other disciplines rarely/never use.
There are guys like Shaw and Appleton who hardly ever use a closed bridge, but it seems that most players use a closed bridge on about 1/5 to 1/3 of their shots depending of course on the type of shot. I know that Earl is strong advocate of utilizing a closed bridge when needed. You also see SVB use a closed bridge more than most other pros
Just my guess is that they need a lot of power, more than pool players or snooker players would ever regularly use. Just like a power break shot in pool you will never see an open hand bridge. They also seem to stand a little higher to get more stroke/follow through?
My sense is that an open bridge gives you a more precise aiming line to the specific hit on the object ball while a closed bridge gives you a more precise alignment on the point the cue tip will contact the cue ball, and hence better control over the English - and it remains more precise when the stroke is more powerful.
Do you think the top 3C players, who use a closed bridge almost exclusively, all have sub-par strokes? Or is there perhaps some factor you are not aware of or not taking into account?
I think stroke mechanics for potting balls is far more critical then it is in 3C. Introducing needless drag on your shaft with a closed bridge is foolish when precision cueing is required.
You also don't see much "power draw" that pool players claim a closed bridge is good for in 3C. At least I never have.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
The song was discussing girls and love, but . . .
"Just hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control"
As in all things pool, finding a happy medium is an important secret to success. A closed bridge is not necessarily "tight".
"Just hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control"
As in all things pool, finding a happy medium is an important secret to success. A closed bridge is not necessarily "tight".
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There it is in a nutshell.
soyale
Well-known member
can you provide some examples?
My 0.02
I use an open bridge on most shots because I have short fingers. I use a closed bridge on break shots, except when breaking from the side rail. I prefer a closed bridge for draw shots. I can hit the cue ball lower with a closed bridge that I can with an open bridge because I cannot form a good V when cuing the cue ball low with an open bridge.
I use an open bridge on most shots because I have short fingers. I use a closed bridge on break shots, except when breaking from the side rail. I prefer a closed bridge for draw shots. I can hit the cue ball lower with a closed bridge that I can with an open bridge because I cannot form a good V when cuing the cue ball low with an open bridge.
Go back years ago when he used the wood shaft, he used open bridge 98% of the shots Joshua that is.
Also I noted that Fedor Gorst uses open-bridge for 98% of the shots too.
Jayson Shaw also 98% with open bridge.
Chang always 98% open bridge.
I can list more, I feel that doing the same thing over and over is the way to be a good player, open bridge also provides better aim, so to do the same routine over and over you use the same stance, same grip, same timing during the shot, same backswing legnth & same bridge hand, if open bridge provides better aim then you better use open bridge 95% of the time or more.
I noted that on easy shot they could use closed-bridge thats why I didn't go with 100% open bridge because nothing in this world is 100%
By the way again, I can bring alooooooot of more players but I just out of the top of my head I remember these & I thought about this very subject myself.
I think because there's not much aiming and mostly feel....but thats just a guess I am not a carom player.
I saw Eklent Kaci practicing on a Facebook story video clip, and he was playing most shots one-handed due to the forearm cast on his left hand, but he did shoot some shots using his left arm, balancing the cue on it. I think he could shoot with one hand and one arm in a cast, no problem.
Ronnie O'Sullivan always shoots with an open-bridge hand, but that's snooker.
This must be a trend in pool that has definitely changed to open-hand bridges for most. All the players I know from yesteryear always used a closed-bridge hand, except maybe when on the rail. Interesting!
I'd love to ask a pool coach like Mark Wilson, Stephen Feeney, Alex Lely, and Johan Ruijsink about this observation. In fact, I think I will later today on Facebook.
Ronnie O'Sullivan always shoots with an open-bridge hand, but that's snooker.
This must be a trend in pool that has definitely changed to open-hand bridges for most. All the players I know from yesteryear always used a closed-bridge hand, except maybe when on the rail. Interesting!
I'd love to ask a pool coach like Mark Wilson, Stephen Feeney, Alex Lely, and Johan Ruijsink about this observation. In fact, I think I will later today on Facebook.
An open bridge works OK with draw shots most of the time because the shot itself forces the shaft down into the bridge. When adding side the open bridge may show some flaw, the stick starting to move sideways before the tip has left the cue ball. This can cause more side than expected, can cause miscues too if the shot was already planned with the tip out towards the edge of the maximum side possible. One thing about the open bridge, you are dropping the shaft into a "V" shape. Where exactly is that "V" pointing? Are both sides of the "V" equally strong and stiff with the same amount of give?
A closed bridge can give some level of 360 degree support so no matter where the tip hits the cueball it is better restrained from moving further out on the cue ball. Shooting follow it is obvious that a closed bridge has better control.
The advantages of an open bridge are two-fold. One, it is generally more comfortable. The other thing is that you get a longer unobstructed view of the shaft to aim with. This is of somewhat dubious value for most shots because those shooting with a closed bridge learn to aim with what they can see. It might even be argued that the finger wrapped over the shaft breaks it up into two areas to aim with, more like front and rear sights on a gun.
The only person that played above "C" level and mentored me a little was an old shortstop that owned a hall. He advocated always using a closed bridge and always using a short bridge. Try this one night when you can't make a ball in the ocean and you may be surprised. It has turned around more than a few bad nights for me.
Respecting my mentor, I went to all closed bridge. However I found a small percentage of shots I did need an open bridge to see. I was shooting 10%-15% open bridge and the rest closed. After six or eight months I was shooting roughly 25% open bridge because it was more comfortable and easier. I could also see my tip at cue ball address on all shots. However, I have never been convinced that an open bridge is as sound as a closed bridge. Speaking of bridges, I can find thousands of closed joints around pins on road bridges that use them. I will be hard pressed to find one pin just laying in a V groove. If such a thing exists, I will bet that the pin and groove are perfectly aligned, unlike a typical pool open bridge which relies on the grip to keep the shaft aligned.
Carom has came into the conversation. Carom uses a closed bridge because the balls are roughly a half ounce heavier and are hit with more spin. To put it in simple terms, the bridge has more side load on it playing caroms than it has playing pool.
Here is Willie Hoppe. At a little past 2:48 his bridge is very clearly shown and explained. Closed bridge tight enough the loose meat of the fingers moves back and forth. At about the three minute mark it is emphasized to stroke from the shoulder, not the elbow. Those that have suffered through fifteen years or so of my posts know I have commented many times that the stroke from the shoulder seems to make better sense from a mechanical and human behavioral standpoint. We swing our arms from the shoulder many times during any typical day. How often do we swing our arms from the elbows in daily activity? I think it is generally accepted that big joints making tiny movements are easier to control than tiny joints making relatively big movements in most or all forms of competition, except maybe some cue sports.
We tend to think of current methods as the most advanced but that isn't always true. The pendulum is easy to teach, easy to troubleshoot. However, I would bet that it disappears in time. Likewise the stance with one locked knee, or any locked knee configuration to be clear. Simpler often means best, not always though.
Watch Mr Hoppe. Who is there in pool today that has better cue ball control than Mr Hoppe? Freely moving shoulder, closed bridge, carom and billiard championships by the dozen!
Hu
A closed bridge can give some level of 360 degree support so no matter where the tip hits the cueball it is better restrained from moving further out on the cue ball. Shooting follow it is obvious that a closed bridge has better control.
The advantages of an open bridge are two-fold. One, it is generally more comfortable. The other thing is that you get a longer unobstructed view of the shaft to aim with. This is of somewhat dubious value for most shots because those shooting with a closed bridge learn to aim with what they can see. It might even be argued that the finger wrapped over the shaft breaks it up into two areas to aim with, more like front and rear sights on a gun.
The only person that played above "C" level and mentored me a little was an old shortstop that owned a hall. He advocated always using a closed bridge and always using a short bridge. Try this one night when you can't make a ball in the ocean and you may be surprised. It has turned around more than a few bad nights for me.
Respecting my mentor, I went to all closed bridge. However I found a small percentage of shots I did need an open bridge to see. I was shooting 10%-15% open bridge and the rest closed. After six or eight months I was shooting roughly 25% open bridge because it was more comfortable and easier. I could also see my tip at cue ball address on all shots. However, I have never been convinced that an open bridge is as sound as a closed bridge. Speaking of bridges, I can find thousands of closed joints around pins on road bridges that use them. I will be hard pressed to find one pin just laying in a V groove. If such a thing exists, I will bet that the pin and groove are perfectly aligned, unlike a typical pool open bridge which relies on the grip to keep the shaft aligned.
Carom has came into the conversation. Carom uses a closed bridge because the balls are roughly a half ounce heavier and are hit with more spin. To put it in simple terms, the bridge has more side load on it playing caroms than it has playing pool.
Here is Willie Hoppe. At a little past 2:48 his bridge is very clearly shown and explained. Closed bridge tight enough the loose meat of the fingers moves back and forth. At about the three minute mark it is emphasized to stroke from the shoulder, not the elbow. Those that have suffered through fifteen years or so of my posts know I have commented many times that the stroke from the shoulder seems to make better sense from a mechanical and human behavioral standpoint. We swing our arms from the shoulder many times during any typical day. How often do we swing our arms from the elbows in daily activity? I think it is generally accepted that big joints making tiny movements are easier to control than tiny joints making relatively big movements in most or all forms of competition, except maybe some cue sports.
We tend to think of current methods as the most advanced but that isn't always true. The pendulum is easy to teach, easy to troubleshoot. However, I would bet that it disappears in time. Likewise the stance with one locked knee, or any locked knee configuration to be clear. Simpler often means best, not always though.
Watch Mr Hoppe. Who is there in pool today that has better cue ball control than Mr Hoppe? Freely moving shoulder, closed bridge, carom and billiard championships by the dozen!
Hu
Zerksies
Well-known member
From what i have learned about 3C is it's more of how full or thin you are cutting the ball and not precision of pocketing a ball.
Clearly there's personal bias in your comments above. No different then the comments in my previous post that fails to find an advantage for the closed bridge.
That said, for there to be any advantage in the closed bridge based on your described circumstances above. Then it would have to be fully squeezing the cue through contact. My counter argument doesn't need to go beyond drag vs precision. However you suggest that the "V" bridge needs to be pointing in the correct direction. Well a part of the beauty of the open bridge. It's a clean pivot point and doesn't require you to have pointed in any specific direction for it to work equally as well. I could in practice spin my bridge hand back and forth and not alter my aim. The same can't be said for a squeezing close bridge. It should be said that a loose closed bridge is no different than an open one in function.
"Obvious" is a strong word. I'd go with "potentially". Speaking only for myself. I actually place downward force on my cue with both my chin and chest. The only way my cue is popping out of my open bridge is if I hit real bad and stand up at the same time, which isn't going to happen, or my cue malfunctions and folds itself in half.
We should also keep in mind the duration in time the cue tip is in contact with the CB. The CB is gone well before the cue could potentially be lifted out of the bridge.
With all due respect. You starting to grasp here. I know your history with shooting, so I can understand where the comparison is coming from, but to suggest an obstructed cueing view would be an advantage is a stretch.
Here's the thing with old people that have been doing something the same way for a long time. They think how they do it, is the best way, even when it's not necessarily. I'm really no different in this regard. Just saying....
Based only on this video. I'm not overly impressed with his CB control. The bulk of the shots naturally funneled into the legal caroms and several of the OBs were buried in corners that allowed for carom with additional rails after the initial miss. I'm sure this video is awe inspiring for those who don't have a grasp of the various situational elements.
Closed vs Open... Whatever suits your fancy. Anyone taking up the game with a goal of being a strong potter, should attempt to emulate the strongest potters on the planet. They don't use closed bridges.