Opening break shot question.
- Thread starter BVal
- Start date
Put the cue ball on the headstring a diamond from the side rail. Hit the back corner ball on that side about 1/3 ball with outside english. The cue ball then hits foot, side, other-side, head rail and dies. Adjust the hit and spin to get both the correct path and reasonably safe break.BVal said:
How the rack breaks depends on which balls are touching. If the rack is truly tight, you cannot get the classic two-to-the-rail-and-back shot.
Bob, speaking from a purely anecdotal perspective, the only times I've seen opening break shots act in the classic manner is if the back row is tight.
More to the point, I've concluded it is by far the largest factor influencing the success of the shot - much more so than the proper hit on the object ball. Since I've made my opponents start paying attention to the back row, I almost don't even mind breaking anymore.
Can you please clarify what you mean?
Also, bval, in pool vernacular, running english = outside english. They are one and the same as used commonly.
- Steve
[edit: sorry, running english = outside english on this type of a shot, is what I meant. There are times when inside english would be considered running english, but not when hitting an object ball in this manner.]
More to the point, I've concluded it is by far the largest factor influencing the success of the shot - much more so than the proper hit on the object ball. Since I've made my opponents start paying attention to the back row, I almost don't even mind breaking anymore.
Can you please clarify what you mean?
Also, bval, in pool vernacular, running english = outside english. They are one and the same as used commonly.
- Steve
[edit: sorry, running english = outside english on this type of a shot, is what I meant. There are times when inside english would be considered running english, but not when hitting an object ball in this manner.]
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Bob Jewett said:
I'd like to elaborate on Bobs explained path because of the importance of hitting the "other side" rail before the head rail.
Whenever a cue ball travels around the table with running english, hitting adjoining rails, the english itself helps carry the cueball around the table.
It's very important to hit the opposing long rail prior the the short head rail on the break shot because that rail is not an adjoining rail to the cue balls path and in effect it puts kill on the cue ball which allows it to die on the headrail.
If the shot were to go wide and catch the bottom rail prior to your intent to have the CB die, it would continue to run more than you want.
Hope ya don't mind the elaboration Bob, but I thought the point was worthy.
BVal said:
Ah, follow and running English instead of just running English.
I don't think it makes a huge difference on the break shot. You can catch the third rail either way. I typically use follow and running, but by the time the cue ball reaches the object ball you'll pretty much have natural roll on the cue ball anyway.
Sure. The only time you can get the perfect break is when the last row is loose from the next to last row. If the balls are really tight, the ball you hit will hit not one but rather two balls. The next ball along the back row will also hit two balls, and so on.Steve Lipsky said:
(In the discussion of nine ball racks, a lot of people seem to think that if the balls are within 1/16 of an inch, or 1/100, or 1/1000 of an inch of each other, they are touching. Such people are confused. I hope that no such confused people are here. The balls are either touching or they are not, and whether balls are touching is very, very, very, very important to how they break apart.)
In a tight rack, the back balls are touching the balls in the next to last row at eight spots. They will be touching each other at four spots If you don't know whether each of those twelve spots is touching, you don't know what kind of rack your opponent has given you.
Starting with a tight rack, shift the entire back row a little to the left -- the thickness of a piece of paper is sufficient -- but still touching the next to last row at four spots and touching each other. If you break from one side, you will get a perfect break. If you break from the other side, it will be a disaster.
Choosing which side to break from according to which balls in the rack are loose is important if you hope to play perfectly. I usually just break whatever my opponent throws up on the table.
Hey Bub, here ya go. I think a good break shot should resemble this (please feel free to chime in Bob). And FWIW, I've seen players use low right, plain right, and high right (if breaking from the right side). You'll just need to experiment with your stroke as well. I do, however, agree that the lower ball you strike should be about 1/3 full to 3/8 full.
Ray
Ray
Very interesting, Bob. Thanks. I'll inspect much closer from now on. BTW, I notice that with a lot of sidespin on the cueball, I have a better shot at making the ball contacted by the cueball die near the bottom rail rather than come up and pop out for a shot.
mullyman said:
My understanding is that running English is any spin on the horizontal axis that will increase the angle of the cue ball off the first cushion it contacts. When describing cueing it's probably more accurate to talk about "left" and "right" English instead of "running."
On the break shot, you're putting running English on the ball whether you use follow, center, or draw.
Mully the difference between the follow and the center outside is more prevalent when you are contacting a ball much closer to the cue ball. At the speed and distance of the break shot, the cue ball is still rolling with center.
btw, I also like a touch of follow on my break shots anyway.
btw, I also like a touch of follow on my break shots anyway.
Inside and outside side spin refer to how the side spin rubs on the object ball. It has nothing to do with cushions.mullyman said:
Running and reverse side spin refer to how the side spin rubs on the cushions. It has nothing to do with how the object ball is struck.
You can have:
inside reverse
outside reverse
inside running
outside running
Further, you can have any of the above with follow, draw or stun, which refers to the top/back spin the cue ball has at the instant it hits the object ball. It's a mildly interesting exercise to construct twelve useful shots which illustrate the twelve possible combinations.
The people from the UK and Commonwealth countries have a somewhat different set of words to describe this stuff.
Bob Jewett said:
Thanks Bob. I was referring to only the back row of balls, so I guess that's where our disconnect was. The back row simply must be tight (to each other) in order to achieve a break which yields no shot and is at least "almost" perfect. In my original post, I referred to the balls "acting in the classic manner", and by this, I was referring more to the success of the break shot, not actually leaving the rack in the same position as before you hit it.
Interesting lesson, though. Thanks!
- Steve
mullyman said:
That's because, all those years ago at Beechmont, you never
came over to the Billiard table with us
But seriously, it is surprising, to my simple mind anyway, how many
accomplished pool players think 'outside english' and 'running english'
are the same term.
Mr Jewett, once again, gave a very good explaination - your reference
to high and outside both reminded me of a tip that might be worth
repeating for any 'newer' players who may read this thread.
I picked this up many years ago from a column by Tom Kollins,
a pretty sporty 14.1 and Snooker player. He diagramed a position shot
that involved bumping the CB to a side rail and spinning it up the
table with LOTS of running english. He pointed out that you wanted
to use the min amt of follow to get the CB to the rail because:
Centerball sidespin has more effect than sidespin-with-follow.
Again, just a tip that might be of interest to some.
Dale<side spinner in his dreams>