Opinion

C

cuewhiz189

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
is it me or does anyone else have the same opinion as i do.......the fact that dale perry in selling his cues on ebay and the fact that he has brought a new meaning to the term "1of1".....just makes me wonder if after all these years that dale has lost confidence in his cues......not that they have ever deserved to be associated with the upper crust of cues but at one time they did play good and they were nice.....just shows what happens when greed sets in and the art of cuemaking goes from loving it to doing it just for the money.....maybe if i ever had a shop i would be the brokest cuemaker there is but i would be concerned no matter what with putting out a good playing cue for a very affordable price.........i have all the respect in the world for the cuemakers and what they get for their product but hey guys dont forget that you were once a nobody and then you guys were nice and personable......just because you have a name now, doesnt give anyone the right to treat others in any way less than you would have themselves be treated.......just a thought and opinion, juston coleman

ps........thanks to all that had kind words and well wishes for me ....juston
 
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cuewhiz189 said:
is it me or does anyone else have the same opinion as i do.......the fact that dale perry in selling his cues on ebay and the fact that he has brought a new meaning to the term "1of1".....just makes me wonder if after all these years that dale has lost confidence in his cues......not that they have ever deserved to be associated with the upper crust of cues but at one time they did play good and they were nice.....just shows what happens when greed sets in and the art of cuemaking goes from loving it to doing it just for the money.....maybe if i ever had a shop i would be the brokest cuemaker there is but i would be concerned no matter what with putting out a good playing cue for a very affordable price.........i have all the respect in the world for the cuemakers and what they get for their product but hey guys dont forget that you were once a nobody and then you guys were nice and personable......just because you have a name now, doesnt give anyone the right to treat others in any way less than you would have themselves be treated.......just a thought and opinion, juston coleman

ps........thanks to all that had kind words and well wishes for me ....juston
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Even those who love to make cues do it for the money. Excepting those that specialize in ornate designer cues, all cuemakers try to make a cue that is highly functional and not too costly. I think your being overly critical here, if Perry feels he can increase the market for his cues by going through E-bay, I say good luck to him.

If he has an excess inventory, he'll join millions of others that use E-bay to dispose of it. To read his actions as evidencing a decline in his self-esteem as a cuemaker is unreasonable.
 
I have bought 3 of Mr. Perry's cues and one overlength shaft. I do not shoot with one but my step-son does and likes it very much.

I do, however, feel Mr. Perry has taken the one of a kind aspect way to far. Take three cues that have the same wood, same point design, same butt cap, but different rings - does the change of rings truely make them each 1/1. To me it is as if a custom boatbuilder built three boats that were identical and painted each one a different color. Would they each be one of a kind?

Regardless, he still makes a pretty nice cue for the money.

Later, Pel
 
It does seem that a lot of cuemakers are not willing to give up to information about the process of how they make their cues......and I really don't blame them. If they teach everybody who walks through their doors how to make cues exactly like them I'm sure their cues wouldn't hold value you to well. I like having a great selection of cuemakers because everybody has their own shooting preferences on what kind of stick they like. BUT, Is the cuemaking business being overloaded??? Seems like anybody that has enough cash to buy the machinery can jump into it and start making cues. That's one of the reasons I only buy cues from cuemakers who are at least a members of the ACA...at least they have met the cuemaker guidelines to be a member. You have to be more than good pool player or have many years of woodworking experience to make good cues. A great Cuemaker has Both.
 
I think you might be missing a point here. I know several cuemakers. Take Paul Dayton or Mike webb for 1 or the other. Alot of cue dealers want them to sell them cues wholesale for next to nothing. Then turn around and sell the cue for several hundreds more. Dale has the right idea. Why sell to a wholesaler, maybe a $800 cue for $300 to $400 when he can sell that same cue on ebay for $650 or $700. Makes sense to me anyway. Dale Perry makes a decent hitting cue. I don't know enough about this 1 of 1 talk. But a friend of mine bought 1 of his cues off ebay and i hit about 3 racks of straight pool with it to give my friend an honest opinion of the hit. My opinion was that the cue had a pretty decent hit and the workmanship was dam good. So what would you do if you were a cue maker. Sell the cue on ebay where you can make more money, or to a dealer at alot less of a profit. I think the answer is obvious..................................................................mike
 
Just my 2 cents

I think Dale is doing pool players a favor....Every pool player would like to have his or her own custom cue and with the prices that some cuemakers ask for their cues is great because the cues are worth it but then again not everyone can afford that Tim Scruggs or Paul Mottey or whatever. Dale is selling a good cue which is well built for a affordable price. If the players can afford the higher end cues so be it but don't knock his cues just because he is selling them affordable. Hell if I could I would drive a Lexus but I drive a Camery instead.

Now I do agree with the 1of1 aspect of this thread. A 1 of 1 model should not even have a model even close to that design. Anyway, I have two custom Dale Perrys and I love 'em. He built these cues for me at a great price and I even had a lizard skin wrap installed on my personal cue by Keith Josey. Now who can afford a high end Josey....no everyone...thats for sure.

jjollie
 
In a business there are 5 P's that have to be planned out.
Product, Price, Production, Presentation and Promotion.
It's up Mr. Perry to set them as he sees fit.
I don't agree with his presentation and promotion b/c right now they are lowering the status of his product, price and increasing production demads.
But, it's his name and it's his business.
 
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makers, please

Drake said:
It does seem that a lot of cuemakers are not willing to give up to information about the process of how they make their cues......and I really don't blame them. If they teach everybody who walks through their doors how to make cues exactly like them I'm sure their cues wouldn't hold value you to well. I like having a great selection of cuemakers because everybody has their own shooting preferences on what kind of stick they like. BUT, Is the cuemaking business being overloaded??? Seems like anybody that has enough cash to buy the machinery can jump into it and start making cues. That's one of the reasons I only buy cues from cuemakers who are at least a members of the ACA...at least they have met the cuemaker guidelines to be a member. You have to be more than good pool player or have many years of woodworking experience to make good cues. A great Cuemaker has Both.
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Hi Drake,

I want to make a few comments about your above statements!!!!,


you only buy from [ACA cuemaking members],, Your statements, cuts some of us short to say the least.

FOR YOUR INFORMATION,

I, sir, was the founder of the American Cuemakers Associations.[ I'm no longer a member]..

I, along with others as , Bill Schick, Dave Kikle, Joe Porper, Donald Bludworth, Bender, and many more[to many to name] are fine cuemakers, that are not members of the ACA..

Just because a cuemaker is no longer a member or never has been a member, of the ACA, makes him no less of a cuemaker who is a member of the ACA.

As far as guide, lines, PLEASE, [The customer decides what's best for him or her].

they have guide lines[ the ACA], in place, and some members can not, or do not know how the build some cues that do in fact fall under there so called guide lines. If they were to become members today, under these so-called guide lines, they would fail the test.

One item comes to mind and I'm refering to VEE POINTED, cues. I know personally of one cuemaker buys his VEE POINTS from a dealer, he says he builds thems. He lies...There's 2 others who can not build them also..

He has no idea what it takes, but he's in there club.This guy also claims he builds his sneaky pete's [spliced the handles himself], this guy is clue less, and lies again. Not only does he NOT have the machinery, he has no IDEA of how to go about it.


MEMBERS CUES, and WORKMANSHIP,

I personally saw a cue that was built by an officer of the ACA, in Tokyo, two years ago. No way in h*ll, would it ever leave my shop. The veners were short onthe bottom just above the wrap, on two of 4 points, and he didn't make an attempt to correct them, just sell it as is. Not a good cue-craftsman, but an officer of the ACA, who over-sees new comers, and there work..

It would of been cut up and thrown away by me, but this guy was trying to sell it to "whoever" he could for big bucks. It didn't sell on that trip. In fact, he stayed a few days longer that planned, and roamed Japan, and sold only 3 cues for the entire trip.

This same trip, I was the only cuemaker [out of 21] who "SOLD OUT", for this tournament. At retail, I might add. 45 cues......I'm not a member of the, ACA........I was one of two of about 21 cuemakers, who were members of the ACA. So, 19 ACA members, and 2 non-members, and I sold out.

What does being a member of the ACA,.have to do with guide lines and statis, in the world of cuemaking?

Membership does not make you a quality cuemaker.

Money for machinery,

This is also false to some degree!
I have many who want to become cuemakers who do have the money or at least the CREDIT to purchase machinery.If you come with the right answers to me, I will teach you, sell machinery to you ,and if need be get you some set up with a "lease to own" program.

I have many, wanna-be's I will NOT TEACH, because they are in it only for the money. They want to learn and do not care about the end products looks or playability, [as some in the ACA do]...

FOR THE MONEY, go see some one else, my friend.

I only teach guys who have a passion for our sport and a passion for building cues.

Many cuemakers, YES,

There are many, and I'll continue to teach who has the PASSION and this helps feed my tool habit and family.

More cuemakers, makes the ones who are established, work harder to do a better job. Nothing wrong with that, my friend.

Information! please,,

I give lots of information about cuemaking right here on AZ...I do not give it all up, because it's part of my income.

Some of the so called cuemakers in and outside the ACA, call themselves cuemakers. PLEASE.

Some in and outside, can't make 3 balls in a row, but are refered to as "CUEMAKERS".

One thing that I, do agree with what you have said, good cuemakers are good pool players.Some of us no longer play well, but know what it takes for a great cue.

Drake, in no way am I trying to fuss with you or anyone...

The ACA, has some very good cuemakers, and so does the rest of the world, including my club, CUEMASTERS.

blud
 
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blud said:
As far as guide, lines, PLEASE,

they have them in place, and some members can not, or do not know how the build some cues that do in fact fall under there so called guide lines.
blud
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Blud,
I couldn't agree more. I am ALWAYS leery of someone who promotes his product by pointing at a piece of paper rather than at the product itself.
Guidelines are great, but who really knows if they are being met. As an example, take 2 of my favorite quotes:

"I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma."
-The Wizard of Oz to the scarecrow

"When in Mexico don't drink the milk, its pasteurized by law...not by heat."
-Williebetmore
 
Ultimately it is us, the players and collectors, who determine which cue makers are the most successful.

I like DP cues and I like Dale. However, I think Dale is hurting his own market by offering three or four cues a week on E-Bay. Further, he is hurting his prices by referring to sneaky pete's as "one of one". Truly unfortunate.

These are business choices Dale made. I think they are poor ones. I know of few collectors who will collect DP cues because they are plentiful and cheap. I sold mine because it was not my playing cue and I felt, in the long run, a DP cue will be worth no more in 20 years than it is today.

Chris
 
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hey i wanted to touch up on a few things i have said......first off to drake.we know each other very well and i know you are a helluva guy and a great player in my eye......you take a look at dale...he taught josey,neither guy can play a lick but the make nice looking cues.....do you see josey whoring his cues on ebay....i feel dale is doing that cause he has alot of inventory that he cant get rid of any other way.....and it should say something for his product that he has to sell it on ebay,i would to if i couldnt get my "dealers" to buy them.......in this case it shows the student has far surpassed the teacher.....even though keith doenst play he makes a great product and doesnt compromise his intergrity to get the moeny.....all i will say is i remember when keiths cues could be had at a better pricce....we can thank the foreign market for that change......and i can only imagine the cue you play with from keith does play well but ill bet he has no idea of what makes it play the way it does......just hit and miss....you my friend got the hit.....and i have seen aklot of his misses.......and now for what blud said....i fully agree you have to have a passion to make a great product and one can make a sellable product......there are alot of cuemakers out there that say they do one thing and are doing just the opposite.....i think thats bullshit.....they should be honest and tell the customer ....hell if you vant build vee points,dont be ashamed.....not a easy thing to do no matter what anyone has to say......some cuemakers know they cant make them so they only do cnc.....and there fore they dont have to take criticism about there not so perfect points.......i have been to bluds shop on several occasions and have seen that he is capable of doing both with great accuracy......not that im a fan of cnc and i have told him that......but i understand why he goes with his style.....making vee point are hard and very time consuming.....there are some very good point builders out there ....so may isay if they buy there parts and assemble,are they cuemakers or parts assmeblers.....i also have come to know you have to be able to make money at cuemaking to survive but why build cues just for the money......doesnt having a repsectable name for a goodplaying not only a good lloking cue mean anything anymore......in knowing what i know of bluds work if he chose to do things teh old fashioned way his cues would be much higher in cost.....i wish blud would go back to making vee points cause i have seen some and played with them and they were awesom,"buddy hall rifleman series".......all these people that wanna comment on cues and how they play and are built are really lost and just foolowing others.....paul dayton makes a great cue and all his work is old fashioened from what i have seen......just wish everyone had to see what it takes to make a cue before they speak on this subject....cause i promise those that speak would be lost as a fart in a whirlwind.......as i said in the beginning it was a opinion not in balck and white was looking for other opinions to see if others agreed or dont......juston coleman
 
players and cues

Juston,
I re-call one well known [so called, cuemaker who can't make a ball], he said , blud, how you like my $8,500.00 cue? I ask how does it play, his reply was, You will have to ask so-in so, he's a player,I don't play, so, he can tell you.
The same guy came up to me the next day and reported he had sold his $8,500.00 cue. I ask if he sold it to a dealer, he said no. Well how much did you get for it? $4,500.00.. Oh, then it's a $4,500.00 cue, right, oh no, he says, it's worth $8,500.00, well i said, why did you sell it so cheap?
DUH!

blud

PS, Juston, I'm going to have about 30 VEE points within about 3 to 4 month's or so. They are vee'd out with points at this time, but must wait on the curing process. Got many other high-ends in the works. Have lots of folks asking for my VEE"S. Got to please them too........They, start at about, $2,250.00 for the plain ones...2 shafts, ivory ferrules, 8 ivory inlays, linen wrap. Have 13 on order, so call in and place your order, for this year?
 
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hey blud thanks for the offer.....but at this time my budget due to being sick wont allow me to spend that kinda money on a cue......if i could i would be happy to get on the list.....but would love to see pics of them when you get some done........they should play really sweet and look awesome.....take care and i wish yall the best, juston coleman
 
blud said:
Hi Drake,

This same trip, I was the only cuemaker [out of 21] who "SOLD OUT", for this tournament. At retail, I might add. 45 cues......I'm not a member of the, ACA........I was one of two of about 21 cuemakers, who were members of the ACA. So, 19 ACA members, and 2 non-members, and I sold out.

blud
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Are you referring to the Tokyo Expo 2001 that Efren won with the $800,000 purse, or Tokyo Expo 2002 that was a much smaller purse?
 
Apology

Just a note of apology to any Mexican posters who were offended by my comment above. My point was that you can't necessarily trust everything written on a piece of paper - I did not intend any insult towards Mexico. I'm sorry if posters were offended - I will quit using the quote.
 
Williebetmore said:
"When in Mexico don't drink the milk, its pasteurized by law...not by heat."
-Williebetmore
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Gringos who can't hold their tequila shouldn't be casting worms.

Signed: El Diablo Drivermaker
 
First of all I would like to apologize to the forum. I found out that the ACA is not all of what it's cracked up to be and really SHOULD BE. I had no idea that so many great cuemakers have stepped away from the ACA. I have always had a great admiration for Mr. Blud's cues for their beauty and playability. He really gave me an education on cuemaking and some of the cue makers.
I tip my hat to you Blud and was very impressed by your reply. The most impressive part was that you don't sale cue making equipment to those only in it for the money and are not passionate about the game.

Secondly, Juston and I go back about 10 years and every experience I have had with Juston has been good because both of us share a passion for the game. And YES, I do play with a Josey Cue. One of the most impressive things I have seen about Keith is that he stands behind his work. I've seen him spend many hours with a customer about a cue......a full year after the purchase. Keith does not give out any information about the processes he uses to make his cues. With the late boom in everybody making cues....I don't blame him. I've seen his cues come from hardly nothing to good stiff hitting cues after working with Shawn Putnam and Tony Watson for many many years of changes and improvements. Keith does play pool.....He would be about an APA 5 skill rating. That really doesn't bother me at all that he is not a champion or anything because he stands behind his work and has been working with wood since he was kid...It's a family thing.


Thirdly, I would like to thank Mike and all the members of the Forum. There has been many times over the years that I have been close to giving up Pool. After seeing a great player dump a match for the cash. After watching a 4 hour session of two road players playing 10 ahead where one guy spends more time in the bathroom trying to get his mixture right than playing pool. After I have David Grossman 7 to 1 in one of Tommy's tournys and he spends 20 minutes whining about the rack to try to throw my game off. This forum reminds me that there are a lot of honest and trustworthy people out there that Love the game as much as me and will not disrespect it. For this.... I Thank All of You.
 
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1. Dale Perry builds great cues.
2. Dale Perry sells the cue direct to the consumer.
3. Dale Perry is not concerned about the resale value or possible future collectibility.
4. A cue which is unique and will not be duplicated is a one of one regardless of how similar it is to any other cue.
5. The consumers are getting a good deal on the cues by dealing directly with Dale.
6. Dale wins and the consumer wins so what is the problem?

Dale cannot be devaluing the cues he builds through his Ebay sales. Ebay is a sales channel, nothing more and nothing less. Dale Perry is bringing his cues to a market with a hundred million visitors. It is every cuemaker's goal to sell everything he can make at a price which will support his family and his business. Almost all of the resellers in the billiard industry that I have dealt with in my 14 years in the business are disloyal and will switch brands in a heartbeat if they think they have a better price.

I would like to hear from all of the dealers on this forum and ask which of you would commit to selling 3 Dale Perry Cues per month at an average price of $500 for a year? Would you guarantee Dale that he has 36 cues sold to you for the next year? Let's assume that Dale's capacity is 1 cue per day on average. He would need just ten dealers to commit to 3 cues a month to fill his capacity. I am willing to bet that there are not ten dealers in the country who will step up and commit to selling 3 Dale Perry cues a month. Which of you will get out there and try to push his cues above all others? The truth. None of you will. Most retailers just let the cues sit on display until someone ASKS about them and THEN maybe they will TRY and sell it.

I applaud Dale for selling direct on Ebay. No middlemen, no bullshit. Dale doesn't build cues for their speculative appreciation value, or in other words what they MIGHT be worth in 20 years. He builds cues to play pool with today. Check it out, buy it now and be hitting balls tommorrow.

If I ever start making cases again the DEALERS that get them will be a VERY select few. All other cases will be sold DIRECTLY to the player via Ebay, tournaments or whatever way is available for one-on-one transactions.

Just my 02cts,

John
 
onepocketchump said:
1. Dale Perry builds great cues.
2. Dale Perry sells the cue direct to the consumer.
3. Dale Perry is not concerned about the resale value or possible future collectibility.
4. A cue which is unique and will not be duplicated is a one of one regardless of how similar it is to any other cue.
5. The consumers are getting a good deal on the cues by dealing directly with Dale.
6. Dale wins and the consumer wins so what is the problem?


John
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John,

I can see that point of view if it's working, but I wonder if it still is.

I think Dale could enhance his business and sales selling maybe one cue a week on E-Bay. I did that for another maker and it worked just fine. We had people waiting for the cues to come up and fighting over them. He would most likely sell fewer cues, but for more money. Anyone who really wanted one badly would just order one anyway.

I think the 1/1 should be reserved for his upscale cues - to enhance the collectibility and value. Cue-makers should be concerned about collectors and values. On high end cues it's not the players who are buying them, it's the collectors.

I don't see Dale's business plan really complementing his ability or products. I said before I like Dale's cues and I like him - I think his service is the best in the business. But there is a saying, "don't work hard, work smart". I don't think he's doing that with his current plan.

The proof is that now he must have reserves and fewer of his cues are being fought over by buyers. The proof is that he will now re-list cues and never did that before. He is also competing against E-Bayers selling the cues they bought on E-Bay, at pretty low values really.

I'm just saying he should re-think his plan and not offer too many cues this way.

Chris
 
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