Opinions/suggestions

mullyman

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
Ok, I was playing last night and my opponent jawed the 8 and it came out and rested a little away from the rail. The cue ball landed similar to what you see here. Now, the layout above may look straight in but it wasn't. There was enough angle that you could get that side cushion. What do you do here?

Me? Since I was having to shoot over the 9-ball I didn't want to use english for fear of curving and missing the ball. I hit it with as much follow as I could but since I was generally shooting down on the ball there wasn't much there. I opted to hit it with a lot of force hit that side rail, top rail and then come down table as much as I could and accept the tough cut on the 9. I made the 9 but shots like this irk me to no end. Is there some other way out of this or is something like this just something you have to accept and live with? When I can make a decent bridge and shoot normally I don't have a problem with this but shooting over that 9, Jesus.

BTW, the CB was close enough to the 9 that I didn't want to attempt to dig under it and draw it back. I probably would have hit the 9 with my stick.

Any other suggestions for this type of shot?
MULLY
diagram 2 is basically what I ended up with and I'm guessing on the angles it took of those rails. Just go by the general idea of it.

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I think a rail first shot on the 8 is the correct shot here. If you happen to miss the 8, you still leave distance for your opponent.

Southpaw
 
Well, I thought about rail first but I came up with 2 problems with that. First, I was shooting over the 9 with my bridge hand up on the rail, giving me even more height on it, and second, there was huge potential for a scratch in that other corner coming off of the 8. For myself I didn't think I had enough control of the ball shooting raising my cue up like that. All thoughts and opinions are welcome though. If I say anything against an opinion it's only explaining my thought processes at the time. No offense intended whatsoever. Please feel free to comment back on what I say too. I may say something that makes you go "hmmm, yeah, that's right" and vice versa. I value all input on this.
MULLY

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Southpaw said:
I think a rail first shot on the 8 is the correct shot here. If you happen to miss the 8, you still leave distance for your opponent.

Southpaw
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I agree with this shot selection but for a different reason. I think you simply have no choice but to accept the unfortunate layout and give it your best shot. Rail first, firm, lots of follow. Going rail-first is no more difficult than shooting directly at it but it allows you to swing around the table and possibly get position. If you feel you can control your masses, you might even consider using a little left spin. Yes, you're going to get a curve but you'll also get some action off the rails. What's more, you'll narrow your rail-first angle a little.
 
mullyman said:
Well, I thought about rail first but I came up with 2 problems with that. First, I was shooting over the 9 with my bridge hand up on the rail, giving me even more height on it, and second, there was huge potential for a scratch in that other corner coming off of the 8. For myself I didn't think I had enough control of the ball shooting raising my cue up like that. All thoughts and opinions are welcome though. If I say anything against an opinion it's only explaining my thought processes at the time. No offense intended whatsoever. Please feel free to comment back on what I say too. I may say something that makes you go "hmmm, yeah, that's right" and vice versa. I value all input on this.
MULLY
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I think there's a time to worry about scratching and a time to put your worries aside and just go for it. This is when you go for it. Yes, lots of bad things can happen but you want to run out and have to weigh which two shots are going to give you the best chance. I know some very good players that would just make the 8-ball and bank the 9. They bank. I don't. I'm gonna try and swing around the table.
 
Fair enough, but do you also agree with the huge potential for caroming off of that 8 and going straight into the other corner pocket with the CB?
MULLY
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I think there's a time to worry about scratching and a time to put your worries aside and just go for it. This is when you go for it. Yes, lots of bad things can happen but you want to run out and have to weigh which two shots are going to give you the best chance. I know some very good players that would just make the 8-ball and bank the 9. They bank. I don't. I'm gonna try and swing around the table.
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Well, I guess I took the lesser of the 2 evils. I mean, I did get out, I'm just wondering if there's a better, more controllable way to get on that 9.
MULLY
 
mullyman said:
Well, I guess I took the lesser of the 2 evils. I mean, I did get out, I'm just wondering if there's a better, more controllable way to get on that 9.
MULLY
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Yeah, you're not going to find any good answer on this. It's just a crappy place to be. The follow you'll put on the cueball SHOULD keep you from scratching. However, you're still taking a risk since the cueball's path is going to be somewhat unpredictable.

Nice out, though. You gotta like it when you manage to escape these situations.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Yeah, you're not going to find any good answer on this. It's just a crappy place to be. The follow you'll put on the cueball SHOULD keep you from scratching. However, you're still taking a risk since the cueball's path is going to be somewhat unpredictable.

Nice out, though. You gotta like it when you manage to escape these situations.
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Yeah, that's what I thought but I still had hope. hehe!
MULLY
you know, like "What would Efren do?"
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
This is closer to what I would hope for (though this may be a bit of a pipedream)

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Yeah, you may need to borrow a stroke from Mike Massey for that one. hehehe!!!
MULLY
 
mullyman said:
Yeah, you may need to borrow a stroke from Mike Massey for that one. hehehe!!!
MULLY
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Actually, this really has to do with the equipment you're using. Fast cloth and bouncy rails will get the cueball moving.
 
mullyman said:
Fair enough, but do you also agree with the huge potential for caroming off of that 8 and going straight into the other corner pocket with the CB?
MULLY
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From the way the shot is diagrammed I don't think it would come anywhere near scratching. (just shot it...ob struck a little past the middle diamond on the foot rail.)

You seem to have the CB departing on the tangent line of cb/ob contact but due to forward momentum and topspin it will not travel the tangent line very far and will work much further down table.

Regards,
Jim
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
This is closer to what I would hope for (though this may be a bit of a pipedream)

CueTable Help

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No pipe dream re: hitting the middle of the foot rail. That's where the cb goes...but you'd have to pound it fairly hard...jacked up not being helpful...to get the CB to travel that far.

But rail first is the only reasonable shot.

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
From the way the shot is diagrammed I don't think it would come anywhere near scratching. (just shot it...ob struck a little past the middle diamond on the foot rail.)

You seem to have the CB departing on the tangent line of cb/ob contact but due to forward momentum and topspin it will not travel the tangent line very far and will work much further down table.

Regards,
Jim
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From the way it's diagrammed that scratch is huge. You're shooting down on the ball from up on top of the rail. Any follow you get on that is going to be minimal. I'll set it up tonight and check though to make sure. My first opinion on it is that the scratch is definitely something to look out for. Coming off that side rail into that contact point puts you right in line with that corner.

If the 9 weren't there and you could make a bridge and put sufficient mustard on the ball, yeah, it's there all the way.
MULLY
of course if you could make a bridge one rail with low right does the job and going forward would be silly
 
I agree with rail first

I agree with the rail first kick shot. First, I would hit rail first just to make the eight. Many old varmints including me consider it the easier way to make the eight. With a Closed bridge off the rail I can put considerable follow on the ball and the scratch in the far corner isn't a consideration. Some gamble trying to get back to the nine but I usually do a pretty good job of it.

Efren would add a touch of inside to the follow and come back one or two rails dead on the nine but I ain't Efren by a long shot. :)

We have had some talk about the old cloth and Simonis lately. I stopped at a little pub to test some modifications I made to my shaft while I was waiting for another one to dry.(dangerous but I get bored easily!) I don't know what the cloth is there but it feels like scotchbrite under my hand. After playing exclusively on Simonis awhile, dang was I bad! Table length shots on a seven footer were a ball off. Even after adjusting I wasn't making much consistently using english. So anything I say concerning this shot does assume fast cloth.

Hu
 
3andstop said:
Mully, don't ya know a simple 5 railer when ya see one? :D
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Of course I do. But if I had done that then I'd never get a game. Gotta hide the talent sometimes, ya know!?!:D
MULLY
 
RiverCity said:

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What about playing a safety?
This is a one hole kick shot, that would serve this situation well.
Chuck
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With all due respect, if we were playing 1-hole, this shot might have merit. However, since it's 9-ball, I just don't see the risk outweighing the reward. Getting out from here actually appears to be a more likely occurance than successfully playing this safety. I could be wrong.
 
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