Opinions wanted yet again.... Ki-Techs...

The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
After running tests over the course of the last few weeks on lots of different tips I noticed trends in COR.. Soft tips usually fell between 50 and 58% energy transfer... Medium 58 to 65% and Hard ran from 62% to 73%....

I went back and looked at the transfer rates on the Ki-Techs and saw a large gap between the grades we offered....

Since the Ki-Techs do not really harden up the gap is going to stay there so if our soft is too soft you can't just beat on it to get it to a medium.....

My question is would you offer medium/soft and medium/hard to bridge the gaps or would you stick with the old soft/medium/hard plan...

My actual thought is to leave the gap between the hard and medium and add a medium/soft dead between the soft and medium....

I do have a single layered extra hard that is suited for a break tip that comes in at 80% but no one has really liked it for a playing tip so I am thinking it will be one of several break tip options we should have out by the US Open.....

My thoughts on the gap between the medium and hard is that it is smaller than the soft to medium gap and hard tip users tend to want as much transfer as possible with the tip still getting a ton of grip... That we have.....

Knowing we are a small company would you offer another playing tip while working on the break tips or would you wait for the market to ask for it? I am a soft user.... I never would have bet that would have happened as I was playing with synthetic hards when this started... I just took the medium/soft down for testing and I am super interested in trying it... Dunno how many other Ki-tech users or folks that tried them and hated them would be interested......

I'll do a drawing and send 20 people that say they are interested a free medium/soft in North America.... Just post what you are using here and that you are interested.... I will send 1 tip USPS no tracking and it will make it or not... If you want to track the package after your name is drawn, paypal for $3 will get you tracking.. As a note I have only ever had 1 package not delivered without tracking here in the US....

If you are overseas and still want to be included you have to pay shipping if you win.... Otherwise I will draw another person......

Will be doing a "blow out" sale this weekend... The Mustang had a blow out and I have no clue what a set of tires is gonna be but it wasn't in the budget after buying an industrial press this week......

Chris
 
I agree with your assessment, don't see the need for the medium hard.

I am ready to place an order for some more tips and was going to order some accu racks as well. Was holding off, waiting for the chalk, to do it in one order. I'm more than happy to buy one of the medium soft tips to try. I have 4 ob 2 shafts with another coming soon with a custom cue. Be interesting to try a different top on each shaft. Perhaps the softer tips would be best for 8 ball and the harder ones for Rotation games.

If you will do that, let me know how and I will gladly buy a medium soft tip. Thanks.

As a side note, some people have started bringing magic racks to league nights. Thought I'd get a couple of sets of accu racks to start taking with me.
 
I think the more options the better. I like the ki-tec mediums, but a medium/hard would fit me better. I'm currently trying the kamui clear medium and like it so far, but from what I understand they will glaze over fast. And that is what I like about the ki-tec tips there is little to no maintenance needed for the tip.
 
bad english said:
I think the more options the better. I like the ki-tec mediums, but a medium/hard would fit me better. I'm currently trying the kamui clear medium and like it so far, but from what I understand they will glaze over fast. And that is what I like about the ki-tec tips there is little to no maintenance needed for the tip.
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Interesting.... Shoot me a PM and I'll get you my phone number... I can do the medium hards easier than the medium softs but I will be doing what I have criticized... I can take a medium and press it harder than I originally intended... I would think based on measurements that I can do a medium hard that comes in at a 76 durometer and not have to change formulas.. Based on the curve it will be a low hard on COR......

The softs won't harden up even if I triple the pressure.. Those have to be changed chemically......
 
I purchased a few of the soft tips. Been playing with one for about 4 months. After reading the initial reviews, I didn't think there was going to be any maintenance really required. Perhaps I did not understand correctly. After the tip was initially installed, it played great. As time went on, I wasn't getting the same action on the cue. I find now that I have to still scuff the tip from time to time. Like I said, perhaps it was a misunderstanding on my side.
 
banditgrrr said:
I purchased a few of the soft tips. Been playing with one for about 4 months. After reading the initial reviews, I didn't think there was going to be any maintenance really required. Perhaps I did not understand correctly. After the tip was initially installed, it played great. As time went on, I wasn't getting the same action on the cue. I find now that I have to still scuff the tip from time to time. Like I said, perhaps it was a misunderstanding on my side.
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Binders and fillers in chalk will at some point burnish any tip. AND fill in the surface.. The no maintenance would be in regards to mushrooming... They resist that as well as anything on the market... as far as the scuffing... I use a piece of sandpaper about once every 4 nights just to open up the pores of the leather... No shaping just a refresh of the surface so it grabs the cueball like it's supposed to... The other option is a tip pick... I think they went extinct about the time Kamui arrived... The chalk has to have a decent surface to stick to otherwise you depend on it sticking to itself which is only good if you chalk each shot and u use "good" chalk.......
 
You would be unique in the tip world if you had four or five tip hardnesses of the same tip, and might pick up some new customers both from people that previously tried your tips but changed to something else because their hardness preference was is in between what you offered, and some new customers that would like the novelty of a company with so many choices and the chance to "fine tune" their tip selection to exactly what they want. On the other hand, it is a proven fact that people are sometimes turned off with confronted with too many choices and in some cases it makes them not buy at all.

I'm not sure which would more than cancel out the other and net you more additional customers in this particular case, but since you are a new and small business I would say stick to what you have now and instead concentrate on getting them into as many peoples hands as possible. If the market is there for another hardness they will let you know. If it were me I would be giving out tips of any hardness of that person's choosing (one per address) and totally free of charge just to get people to try them out and get the word out there. Even if only a couple of percent of these people become future loyal customers you will come out ahead in the long run. Plus people are always telling their friends how great their tip is, especially if it is one they just recently discovered, and some of those friends will try it and like it and end up ordering too.
 
Hit some balls around for a few hours with your medium the other day.

One thing I can tell you for sure ... When you hit the cue ball with this tip it spins like crazy.

I hit a table length draw with a lot of stroke and I swear I could see smoke coming out from underneath the rock. It just whistled as it spun like a yo-yo going down the table.

So I'm not quite in control of anything yet. But I had a blast with it.

This tip is extremely different from what I am used to. But I remain intrigued, just never seem to have the time to hit with it enough to get consistent with it.

WWhhhhhhiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :wink:
 
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Chris don't even try. You're tips are great right now. Dont confuse things. I have a med and its the best tip I've ever played with. I ordered the sampler pack from you. I have three shafts. I didn't like the soft.....but my guy butchered it. the install was terrible. He did a med and hard for me and I love them both but quite frankly there isn't that much a difference. Your tips are great; I'll never shoot with another. Keep it simple you got it figured out so don't try to over figure it out !
 
Poolplaya9 said:
You would be unique in the tip world if you had four or five tip hardnesses of the same tip, and might pick up some new customers both from people that previously tried your tips but changed to something else because their hardness preference was is in between what you offered, and some new customers that would like the novelty of a company with so many choices and the chance to "fine tune" their tip selection to exactly what they want. On the other hand, it is a proven fact that people are sometimes turned off with confronted with too many choices and in some cases it makes them not buy at all.

I'm not sure which would more than cancel out the other and net you more additional customers in this particular case, but since you are a new and small business I would say stick to what you have now and instead concentrate on getting them into as many peoples hands as possible. If the market is there for another hardness they will let you know. If it were me I would be giving out tips of any hardness of that person's choosing (one per address) and totally free of charge just to get people to try them out and get the word out there. Even if only a couple of percent of these people become future loyal customers you will come out ahead in the long run. Plus people are always telling their friends how great their tip is, especially if it is one they just recently discovered, and some of those friends will try it and like it and end up ordering too.
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Really appreciate the fact you took the time to really think about our position.... At this point I have given away maybe 500 tips at tournaments around the country... I have sold more than 10x that and the funny thing is I get calls from the guys I gave them to explaining they lost the ones I had given them but they have customers or other players using my tips and they finally tried them and would like me to send them more..

I am not paying someone to make these... I touch every one of them about 7 times in the production cycle.... I am working on automating many of our processes but we are not there yet..... I can buy layered tips from Taiwan to my specs for less than $.25 a piece and I have the packaging equipment to make them look like moori or pick your favorite new brand here.... That's not the idea or the plan.... If I drop to 100 tips a month I will still be making them.. IF I drop to 10 a month I sill still be making them..... These started out with me looking for a better playing tip for me and my friends started asking for them.. My Cuemaker/repair guy started putting them on cues instead of Kamui and they took off....

As far as being unique for having 4-5 hardness rating of the same tip... Thats what Kamui does.. They press a soft and you buy it... a month later you have a medium... another month you may have a hard....

So far our soft is totally different than the medium.. which is different than the hard.... better cueing thru modern chemistry.... They all are completely different tip... if we do the medium/hard and medium/soft it will be thru pressure and durometer...... COR follows durometer to a point for a given composition.....

Send me any tip you love and I can send you one of mine that is the same as far as hardness and COR and mine will outlast it.... Moori changed the game.... I intend to change it back...

Hybrids outperform layered leather in durability... And are their equal in performance... next step will be pure synthetics... I have been playing there since the future tips from circa 1990....

hahah and here I thought my soapbox was put away for a minute....

Chris
 
I would love to try a medium/soft tip if you were to experiment with them, I think it would be great to offer extra hardnesses because I know a lot of players that like to be in between the regular harnesses that are out there. Don't get me wrong, your tips have played amazing I have a soft of my pre cat shaft and a medium on my other shaft. The soft to a little longer to break it in and getting used to it because I was getting massive spins with it, but the medium felt harder than the regular mediums I was used to. I prefer the soft, but would like to see something in the middle if possible. I've heard nothing but good reviews from your tips, I'm sure experimenting a little wouldn't hurt but might only attract more customers?
I'm waiting to hear about your chalk as well! Would love to see how it turned out,will be ordering some to give it a try and I'd order some accu racks as well to try them out.
 
I would vote for a medium/soft instead of a medium/hard. Of course it would be best to have more options. I'm interested in the medium/soft offered. Probably start of with the medium/soft first and then when your sales get better then start a medium/hard. I do realize that there's most (H) users more in US than Asia.

Currently on a (M) now but haven't tried it. Previously used to be on a (S).
 
Houstoer said:
Chris don't even try. You're tips are great right now. Dont confuse things. I have a med and its the best tip I've ever played with. I ordered the sampler pack from you. I have three shafts. I didn't like the soft.....but my guy butchered it. the install was terrible. He did a med and hard for me and I love them both but quite frankly there isn't that much a difference. Your tips are great; I'll never shoot with another. Keep it simple you got it figured out so don't try to over figure it out !
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Imo, I installed Chris's Kit Techs on 8 shafts total. Every of his tips, I need around 1 1/2 blade. Installation process ain't the same as other block tips whereby maybe 1 blade could get you to work 2 block tips.
 
over the past 3years I have tried 5 different tips and now have a kamui med clear.......after 3 months of use It has started on it's "hard phase" and glazing over. my plan was to try your tip next based on the reviews I have seen. I would personally opt for a medium soft as I shoot 14.1 and 9 ball. please keep us updated as to availability. keep up the good work!
 
I no longer use your tips because I bought some mediums and then you go and change them.
If I ever try them in the future, I will wait till you are done testing them out.
I want a tip that is the same a yr from now.
 
I've used the soft and medium so far. I used to prefer super soft tips, but recently shifted more towards medium. Both tips have been superb, and although I'd like to try a med-soft and am all for the perfect fit between consumer and product, I also believe it's a bit overwhelming to have so many products, when the nature of it is such that it's typically not possible to try them side by side.

I also use tips by another active maker of tips on this board (the fellow with the summer sales if I need to make it any clearer :p), and had no idea how to pick between three types of soft tips beyond installing several on my home made lathe and burning through a few for reference.
 
asamimasa said:
I've used the soft and medium so far. I used to prefer super soft tips, but recently shifted more towards medium. Both tips have been superb, and although I'd like to try a med-soft and am all for the perfect fit between consumer and product, I also believe it's a bit overwhelming to have so many products, when the nature of it is such that it's typically not possible to try them side by side.

I also use tips by another active maker of tips on this board (the fellow with the summer sales if I need to make it any clearer :p), and had no idea how to pick between three types of soft tips beyond installing several on my home made lathe and burning through a few for reference.
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For the price I don't think you can beat the summer sales guy if you are a layered tip guy :D ... Tom has done a pretty good job on the Ultra-skins... and If you haven't tried them he already offers I think 5 grades... Same thing with Jeff and his milk duds (pooldawg8)... He has a pretty big following.... only 1 grade but they are too inexpensive not to give them a shot......

Just because I am not making them doesn't mean a tip doesn't have merit.. The whole reason I am thinking about adding grades is to fit more players... I think both the pooldawg dud and ultra-skins have to currently fit some players better than my soft/medium/hard approach will... The whole idea is for everyone to find the perfect tip for their stroke... I'd like them all to be mine but that's never gonna be the case... Way too many strokes out there =)

Chris
 
Does any one have an pictures of the tips installed on shafts?
i know that sounds silly... but I would like to know what they look like
 
Hey Chris,

I'd love to try a medium/hard and my buddy would be suited for a soft/medium because he had a medium and he thought it was too hard for him by just a little bit. So maybe you'd have a market for both. Because I love the energy from the hard but at times could use just a little more grip. The mediums are a great tip too. Also send those break tips out when ya get a chance! Ps my friend and I are very critical so he will for surely be able to tell what he likes and doesn't like about the tip.
Thanks,
Tim
 
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