Optical Illusion Cues...Any?

[Chopdoc]

I have seen cues with elaborate twisted points and intertwined veneers. It makes you think "How did he do that?" Some of these that I have seen are almost optical illusions...but not quite.

I am wondering if anybody has seen, and can post pics of, such a cue that actually achieves an optical illusion with veneers, inlays, splices, rings, or other such work..

I am thinking of maybe an "Escher theme" cue or something like that I guess.

An example might be something like a cue with an "impossible dovetail" LINK

Anything?


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[PhilosopherKing]

Maybe Thomas Wayne

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Maybe Thomas Wayne

My mid-90's Puzzle 'for Maurits] featured Ivory puzzle pieces inlaid into Ebony, starting at the joint end. As the design progresses down the length of the cue, the Ebony spaces morph into puzzle pieces, and the Ivory puzzle pieces morph into the spaces between those Ebony puzzle pieces. Artist experts might refer to this as a "progressive figure-ground reversal".

There are five puzzle pieces around the circumference of the cue. The "optical illusion" becomes apparent when the cue is viewed from one end or the other, and the Ebony spaces at the front seem to form five "points", as in a standard cue design.

TW

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Another example might be my early 90's Siamese Triplets. The three skulls in the buttsleeve are unique in that they each share their eyes with the skulls on either side. In other words, the right eye of the first skull is also the left eye of the second skull, and so on.

TW

 

[PRED]

I can't find a pic yet but Richard Black had a cue that looked square but was , of course, round. Very cool design. The Wayne cues are really sharp!

 

[Rubikong]

Another example might be my early 90's Siamese Triplets. The three skulls in the buttsleeve are unique in that they each share their eyes with the skulls on either side. In other words, the right eye of the first skull is also the left eye of the second skull, and so on.



TW

These are outstanding design sir !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Young William]

Not sure if this counts:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=346478

 

[Chopdoc]

Not sure if this counts:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=346478

Very elaborate. That's one that I would call "close". :thumbup:



As for the pics posted above from Mr Wayne: Thank you! Very cool!

I would say they qualify. The points are not there but appear there when viewed from the end as you say. The skulls appear to be just individual skull inlays when viewed head on but are in fact fused with others when viewed from another angle.

I am still hoping to see more! :thumbup:


The thing that got me on this was the "impossible dovetail". I have been aware of it for years and understand how it is made. We have seen many ways to splice a handle in and I wondered how an "impossible dovetail" would look if turned round and used in a cue splice. That got me wondering what other kind of optical tricks there might be in cue construction.


I tried to wrap my head around the "impossible dovetail" if it were turned round, wondering if the illusion would be maintained. I am just not sure. I think I have good spacial relations but I am having trouble picturing it anyway. I am not talented enough with software to render it or I would try that.


Anyway, if anybody has or finds any other examples of a illusions achieved in cue construction I would love to see them! :thumbup:





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[Thomas Wayne]

Very elaborate. That's one that I would call "close". :thumbup:

As for the pics posted above from Mr Wayne: Thank you! Very cool!

I would say they qualify. The points are not there but appear there when viewed from the end as you say. The skulls appear to be just individual skull inlays when viewed head on but are in fact fused with others when viewed from another angle.

I am still hoping to see more! :thumbup:

The thing that got me on this was the "impossible dovetail". I have been aware of it for years and understand how it is made. We have seen many ways to splice a handle in and I wondered how an "impossible dovetail" would look if turned round and used in a cue splice. That got me wondering what other kind of optical tricks there might be in cue construction.

I tried to wrap my head around the "impossible dovetail" if it were turned round, wondering if the illusion would be maintained. I am just not sure. I think I have good spacial relations but I am having trouble picturing it anyway. I am not talented enough with software to render it or I would try that.

Anyway, if anybody has or finds any other examples of a illusions achieved in cue construction I would love to see them! :thumbup:
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The "impossible dovetail" is a favorite puzzle that I used to make when I was in school - back when shop classes were a part of every boy's education. The visual effect can be maintained in the round, but it requires a bit of "tweaking".

I did build a cue with a version of the impossible dovetail back in the 90's, wherein a Cocobolo front fitted into an Ivory A-joint ring in such a way as to be "impossible", but I don't know if I have a photo. I'm sure I have the original CAD drawing, but it may take a while to find...

TW

 

[Chopdoc]

The "impossible dovetail" is a favorite puzzle that I used to make when I was in school - back when shop classes were a part of every boy's education. The visual effect can be maintained in the round, but it requires a bit of "tweaking".

I did build a cue with a version of the impossible dovetail back in the 90's, wherein a Cocobolo front fitted into an Ivory A-joint ring in such a way as to be "impossible", but I don't know if I have a photo. I'm sure I have the original CAD drawing, but it may take a while to find...

TW

I am sure you are very busy and I wouldn't want to take up your time, but if you do come across a picture of that cue I would be fascinated to see it. :thumbup:


In wood shop I made a lamp and a few other things. Never anything as cool as an impossible dovetail. It isn't complicated I know...but it sure is cool! Wood and metal shop really should be required IMHO. When I took it my guidance counselor tried to talk me out of it because I was "college track".





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[thepavlos]

I don't have a picture, but Richard Black built a cue that when you sighted down it; it looked square!

 

[measureman]

In the early '70s I saw a lot of cues like that.
I was also into LSD at the time.
I decided I did not like acid.Gave it up.
never saw those cues again.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

I don't have a picture, but Richard Black built a cue that when you sighted down it; it looked square!

That technique was taken from an original Samsara design, which I believe they call their "fishtail" (or something similar). Black ran it along the length of the butt and told me he only discovered the appearance of squares after the cue was built. To his credit, he machined all the flats on that cue using the worst old manual bench mill I have ever worked on.

TW

 

[Chopdoc]

In the early '70s I saw a lot of cues like that.
I was also into LSD at the time.
I decided I did not like acid.Gave it up.
never saw those cues again.

OK...but you can't show us pictures of those! :wink::grin-square::grin:





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[ELBeau]

I immediately thought of Thomas Wayne's work. There is at least one more I can think of, but it is more "behind the scenes illusion." Some folks are not aware of his "other" skills that show up in his pieces. That work is his to share, however.
Richard Black has had a few that come to mind, too. Here is a link -
http://www.blackcues.com/more_functional_art/squared.shtml
"Squared."

 

[cueman]

The "impossible dovetail" is a favorite puzzle that I used to make when I was in school - back when shop classes were a part of every boy's education. The visual effect can be maintained in the round, but it requires a bit of "tweaking".

I did build a cue with a version of the impossible dovetail back in the 90's, wherein a Cocobolo front fitted into an Ivory A-joint ring in such a way as to be "impossible", but I don't know if I have a photo. I'm sure I have the original CAD drawing, but it may take a while to find...

TW

Do you have any pictures of those cues you did in the 90's with the round ball on the ends of the points? Or is this what you are referring to in the above quote? Those were very simple looking, but also looked impossible to build. I remember you had a short piece about an inch or two long done that way you were showing everyone at one of the BCA shows in Vegas. That short piece really looked impossible to build.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Bill Grassley had that "square" cue in his booth at SBE maybe 12 yrs ago and the pics dont do it justice. That was a total badass illusion cue.

And, of course, The Wayne cues are mind blowers! :thumbup:

best,
brian kc

 

[galipeau]

Eric Crisp did that insane forearm with maybe 144 recuts I belive? Can't find the pic, but that cue is a trip to look at.

Also, Hulsey's titlist style cue with the intertwined veneers is a nice original piece as well.

TW has done some absolutely insane stuff for sure with inlays, as displayed here. As far as actual splicing, joining, marquetry goes, I'd have to say that the guys over at Samsara have their shit locked down. There is some stuff they do that I still have no clue how it was done, and I probably will never find out.

It was actually the standard 4 point cue that got me into cues in the first place. I always loved thinking about how the pieces fit together!

Great thread Chopdoc.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Eric Crisp did that insane forearm with maybe 144 recuts I belive? Can't find the pic, but that cue is a trip to look at.

Also, Hulsey's titlist style cue with the intertwined veneers is a nice original piece as well.

TW has done some absolutely insane stuff for sure with inlays, as displayed here. As far as actual splicing, joining, marquetry goes, I'd have to say that the guys over at Samsara have their shit locked down. There is some stuff they do that I still have no clue how it was done, and I probably will never find out.

It was actually the standard 4 point cue that got me into cues in the first place. I always loved thinking about how the pieces fit together!

Great thread Chopdoc.

Samsara are the pioneers of taking a time-honored technique - butterfly points - and making them their own.

Sir Isaac Newton famously said, "If I have seen farther than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." The "giants" he was referring to were the earlier scientists such Galileo, Copernicus, Keplar, etc. who laid the foundation on which he built his body of work. In the same way, any contemporary cuemaker using very short butterfly points - Black's Squares cue, for example - owes the success of such designs to those who laid the foundation for that work... meaning Dave Doucette & Jim Stadum of Samsara.

Some cuemakers [using stubby butterflies] willingly acknowledge Samsara as inspiration (Black, for example), and some do not. But NONE have come close to the breadth and depth of exploration and experimentation that the Samsara boys have applied to the concept. Here is a fine example:

The cue in the photo above is not my favorite rendition of their "spiral fishtails" concept, but it does display the complexity thereof; their first kick at that cat was actually a pair of cues that, while different, complimented each other in tone and design.

That paired set currently resides in the Rogers Collection, and I am EXTREMELY proud of my single, though significant, contribution to that effort - I came up with the name for them, which is "Twisted Sisters". The day I see another cuemaker - any other cuemaker (self included) - take a centuries-old technique and make it so uniquely their own is the day I'll be more impressed than I am with Samsara's body of work. Doubtful it will happen in my lifetime.

TW
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[Walkermine]

....That paired set currently resides in the Rogers Collection, and I am EXTREMELY proud of my single, though significant, contribution to that effort - I came up with the name for them, which is "Twisted Sisters". The day I see another cuemaker - any other cuemaker (self included) - take a centuries-old technique and make it so uniquely their own is the day I'll be more impressed than I am with Samsara's body of work. Doubtful it will happen in my lifetime.

TW
.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Interesting how they got their name. To most, I would guess, and that would probably include a good number of cue makers, the process for executing that design is not clearly understood. I believe Rick's cues were done nearly twenty years ago. That's also amazing. Here is a pic of what I believe is one of the actual sister cues referred to as "Liz".

I'm somewhat familiar with this original project only because Dave and JIm are currently building one for me which will be similar in design to "Liz". I'm pressing Jim very hard to provide some in-process photos as this cue gets built. As you might imagine, that ain't easy because of the techniques and special tooling that they guard so close. At any rate, I hope to get some that at least reflect certain stages of the build so that I might post up here.

One of your earlier cues, I can't recall the collector, maybe Martino, had a spider web in the sleeve. What was interesting to me was the process used to achieve the look. To most eyes, the execution to get that look isn't what it appears to be. Pretty cool thinking.

Thanks for contributing here. This particular aspect of design and execution has always fascinated me. Great thread.

Paul