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Dude: it doesn't really matter who I am or what my credentials are. There is literally a video of Mosconi talking about this issue.
Orcollo might try to beat the 626 record
- Thread starter terryhanna
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Dude: it doesn't really matter who I am or what my credentials are. There is literally a video of Mosconi talking about this issue.
Yeah he was talking smack. People here know he missed, he knows he missed and every other time he admitted it. Your going on about the 1 that you like against all of reality
It does matter though who you be. Me, I’m jeff and I’d like to play you in some pool. Because I’ll win and then you will definitively be wrong...in everything
And there is literally a book, written by Mosconi, co-authored by a sports historian, that was fact-checked as part of any editing/publishing process -- something that training videos don't go through because they are not fact-oriented as they are demonstration-oriented.
And yes, it does matter who you are, because you are the one arguing the point.
-Sean
Never dealt much with senior citizens have you ?
In only the eyes of politician or a preacher would this be equal evidence.
So you are asking the world to believe, Willie allowed an biography to go into print and distribution with the description of him missing at 526...but in real life, he just gave up?
You obviously never heard about how stubborn Willie was and how he never would've allowed his pool game to be falsely reported.
Once again, you are saying Willie allowed the book to be printed width a false story?
Collectively, we have been over this many times before.
Mosconi said in his official autobiography that he missed.
Second, the "Springfield News-Sun" reported on the run and interviewed witnesses who saw him miss. The story went national via Associated Press the next day.
Lastly, consider that when the video was made Mosconi was almost 70 and may have been showing signs of the Alzheimers that eventually killed him.
Lou Figueroa
Exactly. It's funny the things some people pick to argue about.
Very many arguments, but some of you conflate, and some of you confuse. I've seen above, some of you think he quit on 526, 589 and 609. Some have cited videos. I think, here are the facts. Feel free to correct me, but if you do, at least come with evidence.
The 526:
From Willie, on an interview with ABC's Wide World of Sports, Bill Fleming, Willie said he quit after the run of 526. This video was quite a while ago, maybe the 60s or 70s. Willie was not showing any signs of Alzeimers in that video. In fact, he was perfectly healthy in the early 80s legends tournaments in Atlantic City. So let's put the Alzeimers to rest as an excuse for the early video recount of quitting at 526.
Still on 526, When Willie played Jimmy Caras later in life, Pat Fleming asked him how the 526 run ended. Willie said, he quit. That was quite later, and I think Alzeimers, plus some surgery may have had some effect on his memory. Given evidence, I do think he missed on 527.
The 589, Charlie Ursitti does provide some history, that I've provided below, and I do take his word that he quit on 589.
The 609, is a bit of an enigma. Willie says he did it, but does not describe the ending. I've provided that below too, even though I've shown it on another thread. Some of you think he quit on that too, and I'd like to see evidence. So far, I've not.
I like documentation rather than hearsay, but admittedly, if I know the integrity and character of a person, that goes a long way. Anyhow, hope this provides some clarity, jogs some memories, etc. Also hope it fills in some holes when you talk about some Mosconi video. There is an earlier one with Bill Fleming and a later one with Pat Fleming.
All the best,
WW
The 526:
From Willie, on an interview with ABC's Wide World of Sports, Bill Fleming, Willie said he quit after the run of 526. This video was quite a while ago, maybe the 60s or 70s. Willie was not showing any signs of Alzeimers in that video. In fact, he was perfectly healthy in the early 80s legends tournaments in Atlantic City. So let's put the Alzeimers to rest as an excuse for the early video recount of quitting at 526.
Still on 526, When Willie played Jimmy Caras later in life, Pat Fleming asked him how the 526 run ended. Willie said, he quit. That was quite later, and I think Alzeimers, plus some surgery may have had some effect on his memory. Given evidence, I do think he missed on 527.
The 589, Charlie Ursitti does provide some history, that I've provided below, and I do take his word that he quit on 589.
The 609, is a bit of an enigma. Willie says he did it, but does not describe the ending. I've provided that below too, even though I've shown it on another thread. Some of you think he quit on that too, and I'd like to see evidence. So far, I've not.
I like documentation rather than hearsay, but admittedly, if I know the integrity and character of a person, that goes a long way. Anyhow, hope this provides some clarity, jogs some memories, etc. Also hope it fills in some holes when you talk about some Mosconi video. There is an earlier one with Bill Fleming and a later one with Pat Fleming.
All the best,
WW
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I think any one who can run 250-300 balls definitely has th3 skill to run 600, they would only need to work on stamina and mind control part of things, the rest is just trying until conditions align. I also agree with earlier post that willie was unbeatable but John is just a average pro to these other pros, so I think the more this is discussed and the more egos are hurt the faster it will be broken. An Ego is worth more than a check when your already live comfortably
I’m not a doctor, are you?
My mother-in-law died from the complications of Alzheimer’s and one thing I can tell you is that the earliest signs of the disease are things like forgetting small details from the past, dates, appointments and such while all else is normal.
Mosconi died from complications of Alzheimer’s perhaps a decade later. It is possible that his confusing things was an early sign of what was to come while he otherwise looked great. Maybe, maybe not, but possible.
Lou Figueroa
Lou:
I know you're down there in St. Louis(?), but I wonder if there's a way one of our locals there in Springfield OH can go to the local library and look through the microfiche for copies of those newspaper articles with the interviews of the local attendees, and post a picture up here on AZB? That would go a l-o-n-g way to finally putting a kabash on all these inflated rumors. Heck, if Willie did just quit on the 526, I'll gladly eat crow publicly. But I don't think I'm wrong.
Thoughts?
-Sean
Lou, Willie died in 1993. The Bill Fleming video is obviously 60s.
Do you honestly think Willie had Alzeimers for something like 30 years? Obviously you don't, with your account of a decade. Same with my dad.
Come on, give it a rest. I do agree that he had it when he played Caras, but not in those earlier days. That is not a good excuse for him to say he quit in that interview. I think he just wanted to sound like he didn't miss. I watched him in person in the early 80s, and he was absolutely fine, both at the table, and at interviews with Allen Hopkins, and Kim Prince from ESPN.
Please, stop this nonsense. Nobody lives with Alzeimers for 30 years.
All the best,
WW
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Sean, the story was picked up by AP.
A search of their archive should do it. I’d look but am kinda busy right now except for short bursts.
Lou Figueroa
I could be wrong but when I looked at the video I could have sworn I saw 1980 as the date of the video.
Lou Figueroa
Even if the video was made in the 70s, you think Alzeimers was clouding his memory? I don't think so, seeing him live in the 80s. I think it was just part of his schtick. We've already established that he missed on 527.
But I do have to wonder, what are you arguing? I'm saying he probably ran 589 and 609. The 589 was witnessed by Charlie, and we're not sure about the 609, but given his integrity, I believe it. I'm not sure where you're going.
I think I've provided enough documentation above. You tend to provide words, nothing more.
All the best,
WW
WW:
Concerning the bolded red part, have we? It seems in Post #310 above you were arguing that Willie just quit on 527.
-Sean
Not me. I think Willie missed on 527. I was quoting Willie, not my opinion. What are you missing?
Here's the relevant from post 310:
"The 526:
From Willie, on an interview with ABC's Wide World of Sports, Bill Fleming, Willie said he quit after the run of 526. This video was quite a while ago, maybe the 60s or 70s. Willie was not showing any signs of Alzeimers in that video. In fact, he was perfectly healthy in the early 80s legends tournaments in Atlantic City. So let's put the Alzeimers to rest as an excuse for the early video recount of quitting at 526.
Still on 526, When Willie played Jimmy Caras later in life, Pat Fleming asked him how the 526 run ended. Willie said, he quit."
Not sure where you were trying to go with this. We've established that Willie missed on 527.
All the best,
WW
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In the first two paragraphs:
You were doing this quite compellingly, but now I see the last red-bolded sentence. Other than that last sentence and given the information you were sharing, it would seem you believed he just quit, so what "evidence" convinced you that he missed?
-Sean
Various accounts that had Willie missing, not quitting. I believe the 6 ball in the corner pocket.
Read more carefully. I was giving accounts of others, as they were relevant to the thread. But I always say what I believe, and why.
All the best,
WW
Someone has a hair across his petutie.
You need to read more carefully, as I was kindly asking the question, "have we?" conversationally in reply to your "we've already established he missed" thing. As you can tell from the plethora of replies from folks that come out of woodwork (including user accounts with singe-digits or early-teens postcounts), we've definitely not established that he missed.I am in possession of "Willie's Game: An Autobiography" so I'm firmly in the "missed" camp.
And oh yes, you may not be familiar with me, as I've had a long hiatus (by choice) from these forums, preferring social media instead, but trust me, I'm also one that speaks his mind with complete clarity, no beating around the bushes.
-Sean