Our Pool Subculture-----Deceptive To Us and the Outside World
- Thread starter crawfish
- Start date
I'm with Troy - same persona for me regardless how BAD it is. lol
Really though, I don't think I change the way I act whether at the poolhall, grocery store, or closing a deal on a job....the differences in the folks you interact with and their perceptions (of you) may vary quite a bit however. Everything's relative, one guy might think you are a snobby, pompous bastard for driving a new $40K truck onto a construction site, and another wouldn't park his Mercedes within a mile of it at the country club.... :shrug:
Really though, I don't think I change the way I act whether at the poolhall, grocery store, or closing a deal on a job....the differences in the folks you interact with and their perceptions (of you) may vary quite a bit however. Everything's relative, one guy might think you are a snobby, pompous bastard for driving a new $40K truck onto a construction site, and another wouldn't park his Mercedes within a mile of it at the country club.... :shrug:
Well for me crawfish,This may sound typical.But if you get to know me you will find out that I am the same person with the same personality anytime you see me,in whatever environment .But at the same time I am not trying to hustle anyone or keep from being hustled.I am a tournament player pretty much and dress and carry myself about the same at any location or event.I am also self employed so I do not really have to dress or act a certain way. Peteypooldude
I recently quit for a couple of years, coming back has been very tough. I can't seem to flip that switch back on and get things done in the poolroom like when I had to.
People would ask why I quit, my answer was "I didn't like the person I had become in the poolroom".
Your post articulately describes what some of us have to become in order to not be chewed up and spit out in the pool room.
Sometimes, while playing in a tournament or gambling, I'll gaze wistfully across the poolroom at the bangers, just having fun and laughing all the while oblivious to the brutal carnage taking place amongst the 'players'. Oh crap, I'm rambling....
Anyway, great post crawfish.
I always enjoy the atmosphere of any pool room or tournament. At every tournament I saw it felt like the players could just mutiny and say hey we need to run the tournament differently. I have no doubts the tournament directors would respond in an accommodating manner.
I'm going along with Dave, on this one. I would like to think that I'm the same person inside a pool room as I am outside of one. I try to be honest and I try to be as decent a human being as possible. If I were a betting man, which I'm not, I would say that a fair amount of AZB members would say the very same thing about themselves.
I personally don't believe that pool players are members of a sub-culture any more than I believe golfers, bowlers, or people who handicap horse races are members of one.
And as for Grady; I have to say that I was a bit saddened when I watched a part of the stream, the other night. It wasn't the Grady I remembered from the '05 DCC.
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Thanks, and great response. I sometimes, while at the poolroom, can look across and just "KNOW" what's about to happen. There might be four people laying the trap for the same guy. Every, and I mean every guy sees it...but him. It's like it's okay to do anything you want in the poolroom as long as you don't take it with you. I mean, you can (in most poolrooms) find anything. From, uh well, substances, women, food stamps at a reduced rate, hell, I've even watched a guy bring in a leaf blower from Walmart still in the box. I'm pretty sure that whole ordeal wasn't on the up and up.
Crawfish,
This is a great thread. I think some in the pool world will not understand the need to flip the switch. Some have said they have the same personality whether in the pool room or other areas of their life. But, there are several of us who, at least the persona, is different in our various worlds.
I work in the banking business at a consultant, regulator, and even a personal banker. I certainly can not conduct myself in the same manner in this world as I do at the pool hall. However, I must continue to look at the angles because you never know when someone will make a move on you.
Last week I had to go to Chester's (pool room in OKC) for lunch. I was meeting someone there who owed me money. I walk in dressed in business attire. No one in Chester's had ever seen me dressed like this before. Some people have an idea what I do for a living but really don't understand that world. And, since these people don't understand that world they have a jaded or skeptical view. Anyway, I collect my money, eat a fried egg sandwich and go back to work.
When I get back to work, I talked with one of my co-workers. A gentleman in his mid-50's who's been around (not the pool world but certainly seen some of the bad in life). I told him where I had been and what I had been doing. He asked a few questions about the danger in pool halls and gambling. We started talking about the various parts of my life (the different worlds). During the day I maybe conducting or participating in a board meeting at a multi-billion institution and then gambling (cheap) at the pool hall that night.
As I think about this, the most interesting thing to me: I'm equally comfortable counseling a CEO's of large financial institutions as I am gambling with Jame Walden. In fact, I think you and me (and other in here) are enriched by the variety in our lives.
Be a student of both worlds, except there are differences, and keep looking for the angles.
Steven
This is a great thread. I think some in the pool world will not understand the need to flip the switch. Some have said they have the same personality whether in the pool room or other areas of their life. But, there are several of us who, at least the persona, is different in our various worlds.
I work in the banking business at a consultant, regulator, and even a personal banker. I certainly can not conduct myself in the same manner in this world as I do at the pool hall. However, I must continue to look at the angles because you never know when someone will make a move on you.
Last week I had to go to Chester's (pool room in OKC) for lunch. I was meeting someone there who owed me money. I walk in dressed in business attire. No one in Chester's had ever seen me dressed like this before. Some people have an idea what I do for a living but really don't understand that world. And, since these people don't understand that world they have a jaded or skeptical view. Anyway, I collect my money, eat a fried egg sandwich and go back to work.
When I get back to work, I talked with one of my co-workers. A gentleman in his mid-50's who's been around (not the pool world but certainly seen some of the bad in life). I told him where I had been and what I had been doing. He asked a few questions about the danger in pool halls and gambling. We started talking about the various parts of my life (the different worlds). During the day I maybe conducting or participating in a board meeting at a multi-billion institution and then gambling (cheap) at the pool hall that night.
As I think about this, the most interesting thing to me: I'm equally comfortable counseling a CEO's of large financial institutions as I am gambling with Jame Walden. In fact, I think you and me (and other in here) are enriched by the variety in our lives.
Be a student of both worlds, except there are differences, and keep looking for the angles.
Steven
This is a good thread and I agree with you people do change when they walk through the door in some manner. I never realized it until I opened my own room in 2004, currently I spend close to 10 hour's a day at my room. I play some, however, most of time is used conducting business, IE, selling cues and other merchandise, and working on or building cues in my shop which is in the back of my pool room. Now my customers come from all walks of life, from the poor through the middle class and also to include Millionaires who come in just because they like the action.
Now I listen to the pool room banter all day long, and it is true that when most people come through the door they leave their other life and profession on the other side of that door. As most know the talk can range from Politics to Sports, however, very few go into many if any at all of what go's on in their personal lives. The thing I find most funny are the rich guy's while they may pull up front in a $60 or $70 car and come in still wearing their suit, they just become one of the guys once they are inside, and they can talk as much if not more shit than many of the people present. I wonder if any of these guys ever forget where they are and stand up in the middle of a Microsoft board meeting or in their private practice Doctors office and tell some one to bite their sack like they do here, now that would be some funny shit, hell I would pay to see it.
Great Thread, and again I totally agree with you!!!!!!
Pool Sub Culture
Joe,
I read your post some interesting stuff youve got there. I do some of the same. I remember what goes on and I write it down and it definitely reflects a sub culture all of its own. It speaks volumes about people and there genre within life. Is it any wonder why the pool rooms are so popular. Ive gone in some where a guy making over a million in salary a year is fighting over $5 with some one who makes much less but that isnt the point. The point is how pool unites people of the same basic mindset and aligns them as brothers. It doesnt matter that my buddy could buy me and put me up for sale cheap what matters is the quality of his stroke and knowledge he has to apply to it. When he is there he just wants to be one of the guys.
Lately Ive seen some pretty sorry doings in a few places. I saw a guy playing a homeless man $5 a game and playing like he couldnt play doing it. That guy lost a lot of friends and respect and even though I can beat him when he came wanting to play some cheap I just told him. No I work for mine and I plan on keeping it. I could rob the guy but whats the point. Its who you hang out with that matters. If you beat some dud out of his cash all you get is cash and you will eventually give someone a shot at it because its extra and eventually it too will be gone. So what good does that do? Id much rather have respect. I only gamble with people I know who can beat me but I gamble cheap. It shows respect and makes lesson learning stick.
I went to a tournament on a Sunday recently to see how things had gone and who was winning. What did I find was that a least two guys got so drunk they are out in the parking lot urinating, one got locked up. Now thats a good thing for pool. I dont think I wanted to be associated with that sort of crowd so what do you do. You ban them from the tournament is what. Well I decided that even if it costs more its worth more to enter events where professionals are present. If ethics doesnt mean just a little something to you then really who are you? Not someone I want to play.
336robin:thumbup:
Joe,
I read your post some interesting stuff youve got there. I do some of the same. I remember what goes on and I write it down and it definitely reflects a sub culture all of its own. It speaks volumes about people and there genre within life. Is it any wonder why the pool rooms are so popular. Ive gone in some where a guy making over a million in salary a year is fighting over $5 with some one who makes much less but that isnt the point. The point is how pool unites people of the same basic mindset and aligns them as brothers. It doesnt matter that my buddy could buy me and put me up for sale cheap what matters is the quality of his stroke and knowledge he has to apply to it. When he is there he just wants to be one of the guys.
Lately Ive seen some pretty sorry doings in a few places. I saw a guy playing a homeless man $5 a game and playing like he couldnt play doing it. That guy lost a lot of friends and respect and even though I can beat him when he came wanting to play some cheap I just told him. No I work for mine and I plan on keeping it. I could rob the guy but whats the point. Its who you hang out with that matters. If you beat some dud out of his cash all you get is cash and you will eventually give someone a shot at it because its extra and eventually it too will be gone. So what good does that do? Id much rather have respect. I only gamble with people I know who can beat me but I gamble cheap. It shows respect and makes lesson learning stick.
I went to a tournament on a Sunday recently to see how things had gone and who was winning. What did I find was that a least two guys got so drunk they are out in the parking lot urinating, one got locked up. Now thats a good thing for pool. I dont think I wanted to be associated with that sort of crowd so what do you do. You ban them from the tournament is what. Well I decided that even if it costs more its worth more to enter events where professionals are present. If ethics doesnt mean just a little something to you then really who are you? Not someone I want to play.
336robin:thumbup:
Pool
Well when I first started going to Pool halls, it was a little bit like going to a carnival. You didn't know what type of characters you would see or run into.
It could kind of mesmerize you.
The deception part is because Pool was originally driven by money games, and you had to learn everything about that to survive in a Pool hall. The complexion is changing somewhat as their is less gambling going on, and more and more tournaments being played, but Pool's old personna still lingers on.
Well when I first started going to Pool halls, it was a little bit like going to a carnival. You didn't know what type of characters you would see or run into.
It could kind of mesmerize you.
The deception part is because Pool was originally driven by money games, and you had to learn everything about that to survive in a Pool hall. The complexion is changing somewhat as their is less gambling going on, and more and more tournaments being played, but Pool's old personna still lingers on.
The one thing that I will say about the whole pool subculture, it has finely tuned my B.S. detector in all areas of my life. I can smell it a mile away now.
There is definitely a subculture. In the modern pool room you have the bangers who don't have a clue really, the league players who mostly don't have a clue, and the real players who make up the subculture.
Of course now a lot of players also get on league teams but when there they often times can't stand it having to fade the general cluelessness about "real" pool.
The people who really are immersed in the pool room culture do act differently when in the pool room. We have our own language, we have our own signs, we have our own ways to define the pecking order.
As Craig said people show up in the poolroom and they check their "real life" at the door. The talk about matching up and who beat who and who can beat beat who and who needs the six and who gave 10/8 9/8, who snapped who off, they make proposition bets, get in ring games, and generally have a great time barking and woofing at each other. It's a place to leave the "real world" behind.
I think on AZ there are those of us who get what Crawfish is saying 100% because we lived it. And it's not that we are all hustlers. We just know the real 'pool' side of the pool room. Kind of like those rooms which have one side set up with 5" pockets for the bangers and the other side set up with 4.5" pockets and one trap table with 4 1/8" pockets for one pocket. In those rooms you will almost never see one of the 'players' on the banger's side. It's understood that we are to leave the lambs alone.
We who are members of the subculture know each other immediately when we start talking so all pool rooms which have any players at all feels like home. A lot of us travel and we know when we walk in a place that's not a player's room. We sit around bored praying for anyone who is a player to walk in so we can get the lowdown on the scene in that place/town.
People who haven't really eve immersed themselves in the type of culture that Crawfish is talking about can't understand it. Which is why some of the people on this board confuse it with hustling. It's not about hustling. It's about being part of a private group and constantly jostling for position in that group by being funnier with the barking, showing heart and gamble and not being a nit.
That is how I see it at least.
Of course now a lot of players also get on league teams but when there they often times can't stand it having to fade the general cluelessness about "real" pool.
The people who really are immersed in the pool room culture do act differently when in the pool room. We have our own language, we have our own signs, we have our own ways to define the pecking order.
As Craig said people show up in the poolroom and they check their "real life" at the door. The talk about matching up and who beat who and who can beat beat who and who needs the six and who gave 10/8 9/8, who snapped who off, they make proposition bets, get in ring games, and generally have a great time barking and woofing at each other. It's a place to leave the "real world" behind.
I think on AZ there are those of us who get what Crawfish is saying 100% because we lived it. And it's not that we are all hustlers. We just know the real 'pool' side of the pool room. Kind of like those rooms which have one side set up with 5" pockets for the bangers and the other side set up with 4.5" pockets and one trap table with 4 1/8" pockets for one pocket. In those rooms you will almost never see one of the 'players' on the banger's side. It's understood that we are to leave the lambs alone.
We who are members of the subculture know each other immediately when we start talking so all pool rooms which have any players at all feels like home. A lot of us travel and we know when we walk in a place that's not a player's room. We sit around bored praying for anyone who is a player to walk in so we can get the lowdown on the scene in that place/town.
People who haven't really eve immersed themselves in the type of culture that Crawfish is talking about can't understand it. Which is why some of the people on this board confuse it with hustling. It's not about hustling. It's about being part of a private group and constantly jostling for position in that group by being funnier with the barking, showing heart and gamble and not being a nit.
That is how I see it at least.
I feel you on that. I definitely don't have the killer instinct and the drive anymore like I used to. I never really saw you as any kind of a hustler though. I thought you matched up well but really I guess we didn't really cross paths all that much in the pool rooms.
For me playing top speed and winning money is the high you can't buy. That was who I became in the pool room chasing that feeling. It got to the point where I couldn't enjoy playing for fun no matter how hard I tried. When I walked in I was hunting action right away. You saw me take some beatings because I had to get in a game no matter what.
When I see the bangers having fun I just think it's like when I go to the pool or the beach and I am the one having fun while the "swimmers" are doing laps or ocean training.
Now tell us the ATM Andy story - that one needs to preserved!
On a similar note, I was in a bar having lunch next to a couple bar tables, I was watching this guy/gal playing and he made a great shot with position, I said to him "nice shot" and it was, yet he would NOT accept me telling him this no matter how sincere I tried to be, seems this man has been struck by the ''switcheroo'' before.
i stopped going to pool rooms, way to much negitivity. I like positive enviormennts like the gym or McDonalds.
I dont like to go to places where people are more interested in my $$$ and how to get it than I care about my $$$. Thats why I got burned out of the pool scene years ago, I was one of those people who counted everyones $$$-I realized after a short time that wasnt the way to success. So I left pool, I learned alot of good biz moves in pool rooms and having pool room savvy that I gained over the years has helped me in alot of situations. I could go back to the pool rooms but nowdays I have more to lose than win or learn. So I dont go to poolrooms often.
I dont like to go to places where people are more interested in my $$$ and how to get it than I care about my $$$. Thats why I got burned out of the pool scene years ago, I was one of those people who counted everyones $$$-I realized after a short time that wasnt the way to success. So I left pool, I learned alot of good biz moves in pool rooms and having pool room savvy that I gained over the years has helped me in alot of situations. I could go back to the pool rooms but nowdays I have more to lose than win or learn. So I dont go to poolrooms often.
In the company of men – and that is primarily what hanging in a pool hall is all about – everyone has a role. In helping people to choose a vocation in life I would ask them, “So who are you when you are with your friends?”
The party guy?
The guy who gets the women?
The peace maker?
The guy who starts the fights?
The guy who has to be better than everyone else?
The clown?
The organizer?
The crazy guy who will do anything?
We all pick a role in life because we have found that we are good at it. You might hide your occupation or the life outside but you are still that guy that you have been all your life.
When you walk in the pool hall the rules change in terms of what is and is not acceptable in the company of men but you don’t change. I’d bet you play the same role in the hall that you play at work, at home and in the rest of your life.
Do you lead?
Do you follow?
Do you stand aside and watch?
One of the “Questions of conscience” from F. Nietzsche
And when the counterman says, "Pinky is on the phone. What should I say?" Your answer, however you bluster, is the same you give anyplace else in life.
The party guy?
The guy who gets the women?
The peace maker?
The guy who starts the fights?
The guy who has to be better than everyone else?
The clown?
The organizer?
The crazy guy who will do anything?
We all pick a role in life because we have found that we are good at it. You might hide your occupation or the life outside but you are still that guy that you have been all your life.
When you walk in the pool hall the rules change in terms of what is and is not acceptable in the company of men but you don’t change. I’d bet you play the same role in the hall that you play at work, at home and in the rest of your life.
Do you lead?
Do you follow?
Do you stand aside and watch?
One of the “Questions of conscience” from F. Nietzsche
And when the counterman says, "Pinky is on the phone. What should I say?" Your answer, however you bluster, is the same you give anyplace else in life.
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JB,that was very well put!
How do explain the mild mannered person who turns out to be a psychopathic mass murderer? People lead double lives all the time where they are literally two people who are completely opposite.
Is it so far fetched to think that that the guy who is a quiet bookkeeper in his day job can turn into a loud and barking action hound at night? Why can't we all have a little schizophrenia in us that allows us to "let go" and be someone else when we are in a place where we can be that someone else?
I think from an academic point of view the pool room is worthy of study due to it's inherent mixing of life's strata. But I would take your bet and I predict you would lose it if we picked a percentage to bet on of people who are fairly different in the pool room. Remember in the poolroom it's not the CEO of Citibank who holds the power. It's Sleepy Freddy who just came off a road trip and everyone wants to know how he did.