Overseas scam artists

shadowmoss said:
Hi John
Your quote from AZ.

How is that supposed to work? This whole thread has to do with a cuemaker going after a foreign sale. China is starting to heat up for buying high end cues. Should all the cue makers and cue dealers refuse to sell to Chinese buyers?

The thread is not about me but seeing I respect you and have never had a problem with you, I feel I can tell you my thoughts.

The truth is, The buyer from China went to this Cue maker for his cues. The Cue maker did the guy a favor and sent the cues before getting paid, Very stupid on his part when it comes to business. The buyer intentionally did not pay and his words are, I shouldn't have to pay because the order was one month late. That's pure bull shit and about as dishonest as you can get, Now he wants to be the exclusive dealer for the Cue maker over there buts still hasn't stepped up to pay his bill. I have always had a huge amount of respect for the Asian people but let's face it, Respect has gone completely out the window where this guy is concerned. It will have a bearing on future sales over there. I don't like getting involved with the B.S. on AZ but you can feel free to quote my email, to you any time you wish. I know the Cue maker personally, he's a stand up guy and doesn't deserve this kind of treatment from anyone.
Best Wishes
Michael Webb
15 Edwards St.
N.Prov. R.I. 02904-5662
401-475-7030
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I know the story. I know what the lowlife asshole criminal buyer is doing, I have the comments in Chinese from the buyer to the cuemaker. I know that the cue maker was advised previously NOT to send anything without getting paid in advance. He did and now is stuck. But he took a shot and we have all done that at some point. I have been burned this way as have most of my friends in the billiard industry.

My comment was NOT about this particular incident. It was in response to the idea that "America" should only buy American but be free to SELL to the rest of the world.

Everyone should be free to buy and sell from whomever they want to.
 
SplicedPoints said:
Let's be real. Americans aren't born with a god given right to earn 20x the salary of a Chinese (or anybody) if they aren't more productive enough produce goods that can be priced competitively in an open market. Of course everyone would love to support their own country when it makes economic sense on a personal level. If mass produced stuff made in the US can compete with mass produced stuff coming from overseas (a balance of both price and quality), I thin most US consumers would much prefer to buy American. Same logic applies to the citizens of every country in the world.

The danger is to push the argument to the level that one must sacrifice one's standard of living (by massively overpaying or choosing a product of lower quality) for the sake of support one's country. I don't think one can make the gross statement that unemployment in the US will drastic decrease or the standard of living for people in the bottom 20% of economic totem pole will increase if the US suddenly becomes strictly protectionist. This has been tried before with great negative consequences. It's called the Great Depression.

The US isn't the only place that makes quality cues (granted it makes the best cues). There are custom makers from Japan, Germany, Philippines and Taiwan. Some Chinese cue buyers may desire a quality American made custom cue now and in the foreseeable future. This does not mean that they will still desire American cues if American cue makers/billiard industry people start making them feel like they're being belittled when they buy American. With the money they've saved from buying a Szamboti, they can spend it on products (not necessary pool related) made by people who actually welcome their business and is not two-faced about it. Like the Americans, the Chinese can be very nationalistic too.
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Go to NPR we have many of these discussions.

But your mistaken if you think its an open market, that means equal on ALL levels.

Again, custom cues are very distinct, made by one shop. If China had something I could equate, I would but I know of nothing.

But again, lets say I collected authentic Chinese antiquities, I would have to find a Chinese dealer to help me obtain them. Its the same with American custom cues, going into China. As I would expect this to be the case.

Not talking generalized goods.

JV
 
classiccues said:
First, there is a very big difference in selling one off cues to China, VS getting innudated with mass produced goods. If you want a Szamboti, and you're in China, you have choices to buy, but you may have to buy in US, Japan, Taiwan, or whereever.

They don't have a Barry-san Szambotichen, so they want one, you have to come here. Again, here you may have options of buying made in china vs made in US, but for them, until their cue market gets uber saturated, there is only one place to shop.

I see no harm in selling them custom one off goods they cannot possibly get there through a cuemaker or third party person.

JV
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Of course you don't see any harm because your economics are totally one sided.

Guess what? There are now dealers of Pechauer and other American made brands in China. People who are importing them so that they can have something different and something special.

Where are they getting the dollars to buy these cues Joe?

From the bank. They have to take their Chinese money to the bank and the bank give them dollars. Where did the bank get these dollars Joe?

Someone in the USA bought some Chinese goods and the Chinese bank accepted the dollars because the bank knows that someone else is going to come along and want those dollars.

Without banks functioning as intermediaries to exchange rmb for dollars and vice versa there is no selling of your $50,000 Super Palmer Last One On Earth Mother of Pearl Bombazza Cue to anyone outside the USA.

And the only way banks will do this is because TRADE ensures that people will always be on hand to purchase the dollars.

So in order to sell your super unique cue to a Chinese collector for $10,000 that collector has to sell 10,000 cheap cues to beginners in the USA. Got it?

And the ancillary benefit to having a plethora of cheap cues is that some of those buyers will eventually step up to better and better cues working their way up the cue food chain until they get to your Super Boomba MOP Special and hand you $10,000 of their money. Whereas without the cheap cues a lot of buyers would simply stay out of the market and find other hobbies.

Economics 101 lesson concluded for today.
 
I don't do well with getting burned. Ask the few people who did(or tried). I was able to get nearly 3 grand from a fellow nearly a year after he decided he wasn't going to send me he Canon 200mm 1.8 I paid for.

This guy was in England BTW.

It was a lesson in trust. I don't trust anyone anymore(either that or I am just not AS stupid).

If the guys excuse is the cues were late, so he isn't paying, then you probably won't see the money.

IF you MAILED the transactions and you can prove it, I believe you have a case for mail fraud. Other than that, I have talked to everyone from my local police, to FBI, to Interpol, to police in England. Unless the guy is a terrorist, they could care less.

I used "other means" that were within the law(I think).
 
I may be ranting. But I am pissed.

I just hate scumbag crooks.I been puting deals together my whole life. A deal is only a deal if both partys walk away happy, and its easy to do.Why do we have to put up with people that think they have to screw over and steal from everybody.

I have no problem with other countries making and selling products.The problem I have is our government or should I say our politicians create endless laws and regulations to destroy our manufacturing base. And the American people have the attitude(Your not doing that in my back yard). So lets get rid of our manufacturing and give them to other countries, let them pollute the world as long as its not on our soil. But no one can remember the past the only reason we are strong and relatively safe is becuase of our once great manufacturing base.People wake up and get pissed we are losing our livelyhood.I am in manufacturing and for the past 30 year I've watched dozens of great company close and thousand's of jobs gone.Just where do you think our government is going to get "our" tax dollars if companys can't survive and make a profit and we have no pay checks to be taxed.

Eric
 
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business lesson....

Why are people always afraid to get scammed ? if you are a good business man you will know that have a "guts" and dare to trust someone or somebody will benefit for your business.. that's is my philoshopy and my strength. That's why my business growth until now. That is why i can have money to spend on custom cue and custom case while many of my fellow indonesian people is live in poor.

Here in Az forum..i always sent my money first to a custom cue dealer or to a cuemaker. i know there is a risk that the cue dealer or a cuemaker to cheat on me and not send his/her product or maybe late to deliver it to me..That's alright with me.. I will take the lesson not to trust that person again, but i still have a guts to trust somebody else new. Because, when my bet is win and i have somebody here trustworthy. I know i can have a win-win business that can benefit that person and me for a long long time and that's mean many money will come to my pocket.

Let's take an example... i bought some product from A dealer for 200$ and he cheat me. i lose 200$. I bought some product from Joe Lloley or Jim Baxter, i satisfied both quality and services. Now i know that i can trust on him for a business. That's mean if somehow i want to open a pool room or a pool shop, i already have a partner in my mind. How much i can get money from him?. A lot off course.

Mike webb is not wrong to dare to trust that cue dealer. He see a potential businees in China market and that's why he try to trust him. He is wrong with that man. But i believe if he is dare to trust another chinese dealer, he will end success.. every business got his own risk.. you don't have a guts to take the risk.. you will end like a losers...
 
shadowmoss said:
I just hate scumbag crooks.I been puting deals together my whole life. A deal is only a deal if both partys walk away happy, and its easy to do.Why do we have to put up with people that think they have to screw over and steal from everybody.

I have no problem with other countries making and selling products.The problem I have is our government or should I say our politicians create endless laws and regulations to destroy our manufacturing base. And the American people have the attitude(Your not doing that in my back yard). So lets get rid of our manufacturing and give them to other countries, let them pollute the world as long as its not on our soil. But no one can remember the past the only reason we are strong and relatively safe is becuase of our once great manufacturing base.People wake up and get pissed we are losing our livelyhood.I am in manufacturing and for the past 30 year I've watched dozens of great company close and thousand's of jobs gone.Just where do you think our government is going to get "our" tax dollars if companys can't survive and make a profit and we have no pay checks to be taxed.

Eric
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Amen Brother!
 
sengkun108 said:
why are people always afraid to get scammed ? If you are a good business man you will know that have a "guts" and dare to trust someone or somebody will benefit for your business.. That's is my philoshopy and my strength. That's why my business growth until now. That is why i can have money to spend on custom cue and custom case while many of my fellow indonesian people is live in poor.

Here in az forum..i always sent my money first to a custom cue dealer or to a cuemaker. I know there is a risk that the cue dealer or a cuemaker to cheat on me and not send his/her product or maybe late to deliver it to me..that's alright with me.. I will take the lesson not to trust that person again, but i still have a guts to trust somebody else new. Because, when my bet is win and i have somebody here trustworthy. I know i can have a win-win business that can benefit that person and me for a long long time and that's mean many money will come to my pocket.

Let's take an example... I bought some product from a dealer for 200$ and he cheat me. I lose 200$. I bought some product from joe lloley or jim baxter, i satisfied both quality and services. Now i know that i can trust on him for a business. That's mean if somehow i want to open a pool room or a pool shop, i already have a partner in my mind. How much i can get money from him?. A lot off course.

Mike webb is not wrong to dare to trust that cue dealer. He see a potential businees in china market and that's why he try to trust him. He is wrong with that man. But i believe if he is dare to trust another chinese dealer, he will end success.. Every business got his own risk.. You don't have a guts to take the risk.. You will end like a losers...
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this thread is not about me,
 
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This is a very long story to tell but I happen to know both party in person and the story from the begining to the end and I made all effort tried to help the cuemaker to get his money back, still working on it though....

I don't take sides, but to be honest, I think the cuemaker is a nice guy just in the very begining that he made few mistakes, I can see his kind intention to correct it. At this time I really think its that Chinese dealers fault because he has a chance to do things right and he refuses.
 
MATTY said:
...I really think its that Chinese dealers fault because he has a chance to do things right and he refuses.
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Given that he still refuses, perhaps its finally time to out the guy once and or all?!
 
MATTY said:
This is a very long story to tell but I happen to know both party in person and the story from the begining to the end and I made all effort tried to help the cuemaker to get his money back, still working on it though....

I don't take sides, but to be honest, I think the cuemaker is a nice guy just in the very begining that he made few mistakes, I can see his kind intention to correct it. At this time I really think its that Chinese dealers fault because he has a chance to do things right and he refuses.
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The cue maker made a couple of mistakes! Are you kidding me. The China (so called) dealer is scum. He is making the cue maker jump though hoops and jerking him off the whole time.Bottom line he is a thief.

Eric
 
MATTY said:
This is a very long story to tell but I happen to know both party in person and the story from the begining to the end and I made all effort tried to help the cuemaker to get his money back, still working on it though....

I don't take sides, but to be honest, I think the cuemaker is a nice guy just in the very begining that he made few mistakes, I can see his kind intention to correct it. At this time I really think its that Chinese dealers fault because he has a chance to do things right and he refuses.
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Just tell him to send the cues back. If he sold some of them already then pay for those and be done with it. I don't want to talk about it more than that here.

He can send the cues to me in Xiamen and I will send them back to the cuemaker at my own expense.

You all know how to find me.
 
shadowmoss said:
The cue maker made a couple of mistakes! Are you kidding me. The China (so called) dealer is scum. He is making the cue maker jump though hoops and jerking him off the whole time.Bottom line he is a thief.

Eric
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No I am serious, that's why I don't want to reply to your thread in day 1, as I said I don't take sides plus you don't know the story in detail, I dare to say only me and the cuemaker have the best knowledge of this event so before the cuemaker take any action please DO NOT make any further comment toward this, this may cause a misleading to anyone who read the thread, the top priority is still to help the cuemaker to get the money back, and only he has the right to make any comment toward this matter.

Again, I am not taking bullet for the Chinese Dealer, as I said he did something wrong to make the thing worse so now he should take all the responsibility of this and perhaps he will be accused of the theft I think he deserve that if he doesn't want to make the thing right when he still has the chance.
 
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JB Cases said:
Just tell him to send the cues back. If he sold some of them already then pay for those and be done with it. I don't want to talk about it more than that here.

He can send the cues to me in Xiamen and I will send them back to the cuemaker at my own expense.

You all know how to find me.
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That's very nice of you and I am sure we both know who we're talking about, I may give you a call for something else that is irrelevant to this event.
 
if the china man(dead beat) is up happy with the deal jsut send the cues back,,if he not want to pay for them ,,you got your items so pay for them,, dont be a dead beat,,also i think his name should be posted now,,Matty if you know the dealer i will fly there and take the cues from him ,,?????????? if i was the cuemaker i already be on the plane

BR
Ken
 
JB<Matty<Eric< Nick,and who every else ,i will chip in some money for and airline ticket for the cuemaker to go get his cues back also,,if you guys are willing to do also,,and i will come along too!!

Ken
 
I can't imagine anything a cuemaker could to that would justify someone stealing cues from him. If the buyer is not happy with the cues, the way the deal was done, or anything else, he should simply return the cues.

Eric, JB, Kenny, and others have graciously offered to help the CM get his cues back, and to make it easier on the so-called dealer. There is no way a CM would send cues without being paid in advance unless it was in done good faith. If there is a rational explanation as to why the cuemaker should not be paid for his cues I'm would sure we would all like to hear it.... but none come to mind right now.

It doesn't seem to me the nationality of the buyer really has anything to do with the situation other than making communication more challenging... but, communication may very well have have been the crux of the situation.

I sure hope this situation is rectified soon.
 
Mico Chang

I am the person that was ripped off. The dealers name is Mico Chang. I am in the process of filing reports. His email is 190039959@163.com and phone # 86 15266817777.

This is where the cues were sent:

qi yu Billiards Club
Mr. jiang yuan long

PH# +86 13863958198
No. 32jia, da yao san road .ShiNan District .Qingdao city, Shandong province , China 266000

I have found out that I am not the only one this person has scammed, so be very careful.

Cory Barnhart
 
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