Paging Dr. Dave! How did this scratch?

Isn't this shot similar to a onepocket shot where you are 2 railing the 8 to the bottom left corner (as viewing the diagram). On one of the Grady tapes he says: "the scratch is as natural as rain".
 
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iusedtoberich said:
Isn't this shot similar to a onepocket shot where you are 2 railing the 8 to the bottom left corner (as viewing the diagram). On one of the Grady tapes he says: "the scratch is as natural as rain".
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It's similar, but in the OP shot, the 8 went in the upper right pocket, straight along the rail. Whether the 2-rail one pocket bank is a natural scratch with follow depends on how far off the cushion the cue ball is. I don't think I've ever seen the cue ball "double the rail" with follow on a 2-rail bank like that at pocket speed and a shallow angle.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's similar, but in the OP shot, the 8 went in the upper right pocket, straight along the rail. Whether the 2-rail one pocket bank is a natural scratch with follow depends on how far off the cushion the cue ball is. I don't think I've ever seen the cue ball "double the rail" with follow on a 2-rail bank like that at pocket speed and a shallow angle.
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I just went to my table and set up the shot (from memory), with the OB frozen. Going for the one pocket shot of the 2 rail bank with scratching. First shot I hit the bank short and scratched. Second shot I pocketed the bank, and scratched.

However, I had a full hit on the OB to make the bank, no where near the hit needed to pocket the OB straight in. And now looking at the picture, I had the CB out a bit further from the rail so the 2 rail bank angle with a full hit to scratch was on.

Sorry, I completely confused the two shots:)
 
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I think we've all had this happen to us at point or another. I figure it's just a bad roll based on poor contact (skid) or some imperfections/dirt on the cloth, cushion, or balls.
 
If the eight ball is actually frozen, it’s almost impossible to scratch, no matter how you hit it. If you move the cue ball closer to the rail, and move the eight out a little, you can make it scratch. It’s not easy though, requires a lot of spin. Way more than any amount of unintentional spin.
Yes, why not follow? It’s an easy shot, automatic shape
 
Tin Man said:
OK, I didn't see this first hand so I'm at the mercy of the person who set it up and described what happened. See diagram below. The 8 ball was frozen and he had a little angle, not a lot, but enough to be confident that there was no scratch in play.

Or so he thought. Apparently he shot the 8 ball cleanly into the pocket and the cue ball ran straight down the rail and followed it in. Now, some nuance to what he said happened. He shot it neither hard, nor soft. He didn't slow roll it and it just rolled off. Nor did he firm stroke it where it peeled out. He said that both he and his opponent were amazed because the cue ball never left the rail at all. The speed was a soft/medium, enough to confidently float down to the end rail. Table conditions were fairly new but broken in cloth.

He asked me how that could happen. I came up with a bunch of theories but I don't think I really understand it.

1) Maybe the rail groove trapped the cue ball. He seemed skeptical because the cloth isn't very worn and it never left the rail at all, it seemed glued the entire time.

2) Overspin, maybe the thick hit with topspin caused it to peel out just a touch to change the natural path of the cue ball.

3) Left spin. Maybe he caught the 8 a little thick with left spin and the thick hit and spin somehow got it to stick to the rail (I'm picturing the shot where the cue ball is frozen to the side rail and you have to slightly masse around the side pocket with inside spin and it sticks to the rail).

4) Slight rail first hit. Maybe he caught the rail first just enough to catch the 8 really thick from the rail side and follow it straight. I've done this on not frozen shots where I go rail first but follow it in due to a thick hit.

Any thoughts? I'd love to learn something!

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Sorry for the late reply. I have been very busy this past week with BU Boot Camp follow-up (I had 24 students in 2 courses last week) and reading and replying to comments on my gender in pool article here and on Facebook.

The shallow-angle follow-scratch effect is covered in detail here:

 
Similar shot, so maybe similar physics. How often have you cut a ball left into the side, only to have the cueball also go left and follow it in? This happens when I need to catch the rail with inside spin and have the cueball cross to the other side of the side pocket.
 
eg9327 said:
Similar shot, so maybe similar physics. How often have you cut a ball left into the side, only to have the cueball also go left and follow it in? This happens when I need to catch the rail with inside spin and have the cueball cross to the other side of the side pocket.
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That might happen if you are elevated or happen to cheat the pocket on the fullish side.
 
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