Pancho from Brooklyn has passed

[freddy the beard]

Vince "Brooklyn Pancho" Carelli passed this morning in Chicago at St Francis hospital. He was undergoing tests and had a massive heart attack. He was an old pal and old road partner. I'll talk more later after I settle a little.

the Beard

 

[Blackjack]

Wow. My prayers go out to his family. We've lost another great player.

 

[jay helfert]

Vince "Brooklyn Pancho" Carelli passed this morning in Chicago at St Francis hospital. He was undergoing tests and had a massive heart attack. He was an old pal and old road partner. I'll talk more later after I settle a little.

the Beard

The famous Pancho. Freddie, they could write a book about him for sure. What a life he led. And a very hilarious guy too. Pancho hung at the Billiard Den in Hollwood for several years and was the only regular I couldn't beat back then. Naturally I ducked him every day in every way.

Did you happen to see or hear about the segment on 60 Minutes about him, when he was running some kind of porno racket in Florida in the 80's. He was on camera for a moment before ducking inside an office door. The name they used on the show was Vincent Carelli.

Another graduate of 7-11 I thought. I first saw him there in the early 60's. He was also a good card mechanic and showed me some stuff a long time ago. Pancho was one of these guys who had a way of showing up everywhere. I saw him in Michigan at the fairgrounds in 1963, in Miami at Congress Bowl, in L.A., even ran into him once in Tampa at Bakers. Last time I saw him he showed up at my Expo in L.A. in 2001. He looked good with two teenagers in tow.

He was not so old, maybe mid to late 60's. He lived fast though, that's for sure.

 

[Timberly]

Freddy, my condolences to both you and Pancho's family. I did not know him personally but I'm sure he was quite the character, as most in the pool world are. I'm sorry that I didn't get to meet him. I look forward to your stories of him.

 

[freddy the beard]

I never even knew his real name

The famous Pancho. Freddie, they could write a book about him for sure. What a life he led. And a very hilarious guy too. Pancho hung at the Billiard Den in Hollwood for several years and was the only regular I couldn't beat back then. Naturally I ducked him every day in every way.

Did you happen to see or hear about the segment on 60 Minutes about him, when he was running some kind of porno racket in Florida in the 80's. He was on camera for a moment before ducking inside an office door. The name they used on the show was Vincent Carelli.

Another graduate of the legendary 7-11 I thought. I first saw him there in the early 60's. He was also a good card mechanic and showed me some stuff a long time ago. Pancho was one of these guys who had a way of showing up everywhere. I saw him in Michigan at the fairgrounds in 1963, in Miami at Congress Bowl, in L.A., even ran into him once in Tampa at Bakers. Last time I saw him he showed up at my Expo in L.A. in 2001. He looked good with two teenagers in tow.

He was not so old, maybe mid to late 60's. He lived fast though, that's for sure.

I go back to the 60s with Pancho. I have lived with him and he has lived with me. 40 years later I still dont know his real name. Believe me, I have tried diligently to find out. I traced him back to the 7/11 poolroom from when he was 16 and I still cant find anybody who knows him by anything other than Pancho.
Vince Carelli is definitely not it. Nor Vince Furio and several of his other aliases. He was a turned out hustler and triple treacherous - not a real knock to me considering the difficulty of those times. He gained fame in the pool underworld when he dumped the record mogul, Phil Spector for 10k to Marvin Henderson in Hollywood. He was an accomplished "woofer" and was great at irritating people into gambling. He would always stop just short of a beating. He knew every pool proposition bet and everybody knew him and he knew everybody. In the course of our relationship he screwed me many times, but he would always charm himself back in with me. It is not easy to forever discard a real journeyman "brother in blood". We always had fun hustling together. The last few years of his life he specialized in beating the Casino's around the country for big money with a slot machine gaff. He could get 9 cushions on a dead rail billiard table with one hand. He could probably hit a billiard ball with one hand harder than anybody alive.
Jay, do you remember Santa Ana Rose? She was a staid little Jewish school teacher from Calif. that Pancho corrupted and turned into a clone of himself. Her real name was Judy. She would go into bars to hustle with the same obnoxious act that Pancho used. I went out with her one night to hustle the bars and in those days (70s) sex was a given. She almost got me beat up with her foul act and so I punished her by giving her a bad count on the money I won. They used to call it "going South with the cheese." I was morally bankrupt in those days. It goes without saying that our evening ended without any sex. She didnt play too bad for a girl. I've only got maybe 3 or 4 hundred more Pancho stories but I will close for now. RIP old pal, there aint too many of us left.

the Beard
PS Oh yeah Jay, Pancho has the distinction of being the only pool player to be investigated on 60 Minutes by Dan Rather.

 

[jay helfert]

I go back to the 60s with Pancho. I have lived with him and he has lived with me. 40 years later I still dont know his real name. Believe me, I have tried diligently to find out. I traced him back to the 7/11 poolroom from when he was 16 and I still cant find anybody who knows him by anything other than Pancho.
Vince Carelli is definitely not it. Nor Vince Furio and several of his other aliases. He was a turned out hustler and triple treacherous - not a real knock to me considering the difficulty of those times. He gained fame in the pool underworld when he dumped the record mogul, Phil Spector for 10k to Marvin Henderson in Hollywood. He was an accomplished "woofer" and was great at irritating people into gambling. He would always stop just short of a beating. He knew every pool proposition bet and everybody knew him and he knew everybody. In the course of our relationship he screwed me many times, but he would always charm himself back in with me. It is not easy to forever discard a real journeyman "brother in blood". We always had fun hustling together. The last few years of his life he specialized in beating the Casino's around the country for big money with a slot machine gaff. He could get 9 cushions on a dead rail billiard table with one hand. He could probably hit a billiard ball with one hand harder than anybody alive.
Jay, do you remember Santa Ana Rose? She was a staid little Jewish school teacher from Calif. that Pancho corrupted and turned into a clone of himself. Her real name was Judy. She would go into bars to hustle with the same obnoxious act that Pancho used. I went out with her one night to hustle the bars and in those days (70s) sex was a given. She almost got me beat up with her foul act and so I punished her by giving her a bad count on the money I won. They used to call it "going South with the cheese." I was morally bankrupt in those days. It goes without saying that our evening ended without any sex. She didnt play too bad for a girl. I've only got maybe 3 or 4 hundred more Pancho stories but I will close for now. RIP old pal, there aint too many of us left.

the Beard
PS Oh yeah Jay, Pancho has the distinction of being the only pool player to be investigated on 60 Minutes by Dan Rather.

VINCE FURIO WAS THE NAME THEY PUT ON THE BOARD AT THE STARDUST WHEN HE PLAYED THERE . YES I REMEMBER ROSE, PANCHOS GF. SHE WAS LIVING WITH HIM IN THAT APARTMENT IN WEST LA WHEN I WENT TO VISIT. SHE PLAYED GOOD BY 1960'S STANDARDS, BUT COULDN'T BEAT ANY OF THE WOMEN OUT THERE TODAY.

FREDDIE, I WAS A PRETTY STRAIGHT GUY FOR A POOLPLAYER. I JUST WANTED TO PLAY SOMEONE I COULD WIN MONEY FROM. ONLY DUMPED ONCE AND FELT SO BAD ABOUT IT I GAVE THE MONEY BACK. BUT I ALWAYS LIKED THE ROUNDERS TOO, THE MORE TREACHEROUS THE BETTER. THOSE WERE THE GUYS WE LEARNED FROM. THEY HAD ALL THE MOVES.

THE BEST EDUCATION I GOT IN MY LIFE WAS IN THE POOLROOM. LIKE YOU I WOULDNT TRADE MY TIME WITH CORNBREAD, BEENIE, RONNIE, RICHIE, JERSEY RED, HIPPY JIMMY, MATAYA, COLE, KEITH AND ON AND ON FOR ANYTHING. YOU KNOW JIMMY REID IS DYING. HIS PHONE IS CUT OFF, AND I CANT REACH HIM. I HAVE A FEELING WE WILL GET THE BAD NEWS SOON.

JIMMY IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. WE WENT ON THE ROAD IN CALIFORNIA (WITH BARBARA) AND MADE SOME SCORES. WHEN WE GOT BACK TO LA, JIMMY TRIED TO HUSTLE ME OUT OF MY END. HE GAVE ME THE EIGHT AND THE BREAK AND I BEAT HIM TWICE. AND HE WAS SO PISSED. I TOLD HIM HE SHOULDNT HUSTLE HIS PARTNER.

SEE YOU IN LOUISVILLE. MAYBE WE CAN WORK AN ACCUSTATS MATCH TOGETHER. THAT WOULD BE COOL.

 

[freddy the beard]

Jimmy's probably next

VINCE FURIO WAS THE NAME THEY PUT ON THE BOARD AT THE STARDUST WHEN HE PLAYED THERE . YES I REMEMBER ROSE, PANCHOS GF. SHE WAS LIVING WITH HIM IN THAT APARTMENT IN WEST LA WHEN I WENT TO VISIT. SHE PLAYED GOOD BY 1960'S STANDARDS, BUT COULDN'T BEAT ANY OF THE WOMEN OUT THERE TODAY.

FREDDIE, I WAS A PRETTY STRAIGHT GUY FOR A POOLPLAYER. I JUST WANTED TO PLAY SOMEONE I COULD WIN MONEY FROM. ONLY DUMPED ONCE AND FELT SO BAD ABOUT IT I GAVE THE MONEY BACK. BUT I ALWAYS LIKED THE ROUNDERS TOO, THE MORE TREACHEROUS THE BETTER. THOSE WERE THE GUYS WE LEARNED FROM. THEY HAD ALL THE MOVES.

THE BEST EDUCATION I GOT IN MY LIFE WAS IN THE POOLROOM. LIKE YOU I WOULDNT TRADE MY TIME WITH CORNBREAD, BEENIE, RONNIE, RICHIE, JERSEY RED, HIPPY JIMMY, MATAYA, COLE, KEITH AND ON AND ON FOR ANYTHING. YOU KNOW JIMMY REID IS DYING. HIS PHONE IS CUT OFF, AND I CANT REACH HIM. I HAVE A FEELING WE WILL GET THE BAD NEWS SOON.

JIMMY IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. WE WENT ON THE ROAD IN CALIFORNIA (WITH BARBARA) AND MADE SOME SCORES. WHEN WE GOT BACK TO LA, JIMMY TRIED TO HUSTLE ME OUT OF MY END. HE GAVE ME THE EIGHT AND THE BREAK AND I BEAT HIM TWICE. AND HE WAS SO PISSED. I TOLD HIM HE SHOULDNT HUSTLE HIS PARTNER.

SEE YOU IN LOUISVILLE. MAYBE WE CAN WORK AN ACCUSTATS MATCH TOGETHER. THAT WOULD BE COOL.

I know about Hippie Jimmy Reid's illness, another old road partner. I tried to call many times but nobody would answer the phone. A friend in San Fran and I put a few bucks together and he sent him a "ease the pain" package. I dont know what it was and I dont want to know, but knowing my friend I assume it was something very powerful. I suppose we'll be doing more epitaphs soon. Brutal. I'd love to do an accu-stats match with you. I'm sure Pat Fleming would love to oblige.

the Beard

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Vince "Brooklyn Pancho" Carelli passed this morning in Chicago at St Francis hospital. He was undergoing tests and had a massive heart attack. He was an old pal and old road partner. I'll talk more later after I settle a little.

the Beard

I knew Pancho fairly well <as well as he let on> from the early 80's down here in South Florida. Played pretty sporty jacked up one handed and he was NEVER at a loss for words. He was trecherous without question but never threw me under the bus...R.I.P. Pancho "Vince Furio" Carelli.

 

[freddy the beard]

Such little stir

I am kind of amazed at how little stir the passing of a true road warrior has caused. He may have been disliked by many, but he was a true, unique character in pool, much more interesting than most.
In my opinion, if you parachuted Pancho and the whole BCA Hall of Fame in the Sahara Desert, in one week Panch would be eating shish-ka-bob and playing Gin Rummy with the Sultan, holding out extra cards, and half of the HOF'rs would be starving and down to jockey weight.
There are a few of us who remember you, Panch.

the Beard

 

[freddy the beard]

Sorry, Panch

I am kind of amazed at how little stir the passing of a true road warrior has caused. He may have been disliked by many, but he was a true, unique character in pool, much more interesting than most.
In my opinion, if you parachuted Pancho and the whole BCA Hall of Fame in the Sahara Desert, in one week Panch would be eating shish-ka-bob and playing Gin Rummy with the Sultan, holding out extra cards, and half of the HOF'rs would be starving and down to jockey weight.
There are a few of us who remember you, Panch.

the Beard

Sorry, Panch. It looks like you passed on without a ripple. You'll get even when some of these guys pass on and have to make a game with you in the after-life.

the Beard

 

[Matt_24]

I know about Hippie Jimmy Reid's illness, another old road partner. I tried to call many times but nobody would answer the phone. A friend in San Fran and I put a few bucks together and he sent him a "ease the pain" package. I dont know what it was and I dont want to know, but knowing my friend I assume it was something very powerful. I suppose we'll be doing more epitaphs soon. Brutal. I'd love to do an accu-stats match with you. I'm sure Pat Fleming would love to oblige.

the Beard

When I first heard Jimmy was sick I paypalled him some cash to help out. I never heard anything back, so I hope he has access to computer to know he has some money in his paypal account. If anyone does talk to him, make sure they tell him (or his mom or gf to check). This is pretty depressing.

 

[jay helfert]

I am kind of amazed at how little stir the passing of a true road warrior has caused. He may have been disliked by many, but he was a true, unique character in pool, much more interesting than most.
In my opinion, if you parachuted Pancho and the whole BCA Hall of Fame in the Sahara Desert, in one week Panch would be eating shish-ka-bob and playing Gin Rummy with the Sultan, holding out extra cards, and half of the HOF'rs would be starving and down to jockey weight.
There are a few of us who remember you, Panch.

the Beard

Freddie, you are hilarious!

 

[jrhendy]

Santa Ana Rose

Jay, do you remember Santa Ana Rose? She was a staid little Jewish school teacher from Calif. that Pancho corrupted and turned into a clone of himself. Her real name was Judy. She would go into bars to hustle with the same obnoxious act that Pancho used. I went out with her one night to hustle the bars and in those days (70s) sex was a given. She almost got me beat up with her foul act and so I punished her by giving her a bad count on the money I won. They used to call it "going South with the cheese." I was morally bankrupt in those days. It goes without saying that our evening ended without any sex. She didnt play too bad for a girl. I've only got maybe 3 or 4 hundred more Pancho stories but I will close for now. RIP old pal, there aint too many of us left.
the Beard

Rose used to come around the original Hard Times in Costa Mesa. I can remember her playing Joe Finesilver on a barbox giving him the 7 (Joe couldn't play a lick). Charlie the Ape was staking Joe, and the conversation & sharking coming from Charlie would make a hooker blush. Rose beat him anyway. The browbeating and cussing didn't bother her a bit. She was running with Gabby from Houston at that time, and he wasn't too well known out here. He was here trying to get some weight from Keith McCready, but I don't recall them ever playing. I had the bad luck of running into Gabby at Five Points Bowl, but thats another story. John Henderson

 

[huckster]

Rose used to come around the original Hard Times in Costa Mesa. I can remember her playing Joe Finesilver on a barbox giving him the 7 (Joe couldn't play a lick). Charlie the Ape was staking Joe, and the conversation & sharking coming from Charlie would make a hooker blush. Rose beat him anyway. The browbeating and cussing didn't bother her a bit. She was running with Gabby from Houston at that time, and he wasn't too well known out here. He was here trying to get some weight from Keith McCready, but I don't recall them ever playing. I had the bad luck of running into Gabby at Five Points Bowl, but thats another story. John Henderson

John,
Any story about Gabby would be appreciated. I have heard in the early 80's he was an unknown monster. I love the history you and Jay share with us. You two are the West Coast historians, OHB was the midwest and roadie historian, and Freddy and Grady enlighten us to some of the Chicago, Detroit, etc. stories. It is great I can tie some names my grandfather used to bring up in stories with your recollections.

 

[jrhendy]

John,
Any story about Gabby would be appreciated. I have heard in the early 80's he was an unknown monster. I love the history you and Jay share with us. You two are the West Coast historians, OHB was the midwest and roadie historian, and Freddy and Grady enlighten us to some of the Chicago, Detroit, etc. stories. It is great I can tie some names my grandfather used to bring up in stories with your recollections.

I played your grandfather in 65/66 in downtown LA. I believed I posted the story as a response to one of your posts about him some time ago. My story about Gabby was when I was hanging around Five points Bowl. I wasn't a champion, but played about as good as a working man could, and it usually took a road player to beat me at anything. I was playing Gabby some sets of 9 ball and he never stopped playing off his thumb. I was fairly pig headed then and told him " I might not beat you, but I do play good enough to get you off your thumb". Turns out he always played with an open bridge and off course I never won a set. I don't know if anyone out here beat him, but I was way way out of line playing him. John Henderson

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that, Fred. Not too many characters like Pancho. I didn't really know him all that well, but from talking with him some, I got a firm sense that he was one of... those guys.

The last time I ran into him was about ten years ago. He was eating a grinder at Philly's Best on Belmont with Larry Schwartz. I was in there with my girl and some friends, and I saw them sitting in the corner. So I pointed them out to my girl, and said that's Larry Schwartz, and that's Pancho. So my girl walks over to Larry, and says "Hey don't I know you from somewhere? You're Larry Schwartz... the famous pool player!", and Larry is just sitting there looking kind of stunned, and then she says, "Wait a sencond, YOU'RE PANCHO from New York! Can I have your autograph? Both of them, WOW!" You should have seen these two old dogs sitting there getting red in the face over a nice looking 20 something gal making sweet on them! They were litterally scrambling to make room for her to sit, and brushing crumbs off the table, and looking for a pen!

That girl helped me make a lot of great games; never had to put her up to it either, she would just see a guy and run with it.

 

[jay helfert]

When I first heard Jimmy was sick I paypalled him some cash to help out. I never heard anything back, so I hope he has access to computer to know he has some money in his paypal account. If anyone does talk to him, make sure they tell him (or his mom or gf to check). This is pretty depressing.

I'll bet 10-1 he got the money. Jimmy has always been good that way. LOL

 

[jay helfert]

Gabby from Houston

John,
Any story about Gabby would be appreciated. I have heard in the early 80's he was an unknown monster. I love the history you and Jay share with us. You two are the West Coast historians, OHB was the midwest and roadie historian, and Freddy and Grady enlighten us to some of the Chicago, Detroit, etc. stories. It is great I can tie some names my grandfather used to bring up in stories with your recollections.

He stopped in my poolroom in Bakersfield in 1971 or 72. Was with an older black gentleman from L.A. whose name I should remember, but don't. Anyway he was backing this young black guy.

We get to playing $20 9-Ball on the front table, where I beat many road players. I can see he can play, but back then I didn't care. I had money and they just had to show me. We played at least five or six hours and he beat me for $300 at 20 a game. That was usually my limit back then.

Gabby was unlike any other black player I had ever played. No sharking, no whining, no moves. He actually stood perfectly still when it was my turn and NEVER said a word. Hence the name "Gabby". He played 9-Ball as good or better than Cecil, who was the best black 9-Ball player I had seen up till then.

As the years went by, I saw Gabby here and there, always in games with top players. He could hold his own against the very best, drawing the line with Buddy (like everyone else), Keith and Sigel and the like. He hooked up with Sheri Hudson from Ventura, CA and they became road partners for a while. Then I got the word that he was involved with some outlaws that would break into wealthy people's homes and rob them. He was kind of a set up man.

Eventually they got busted and he got a long prison sentence (this was Texas), something like 30 years. And last I heard, he was killed in prison over 5 years ago. Sad, because he was a nice guy every time I had been around him. Quiet but cordial. I guess I never knew him that well.