Parabolic Taper

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Silver Member
I hear this term all the time and I swear eveybody has a different definition. What do you guys define as a parabolic taper???

I mean, I know what a parabola is. I've seen some definitions of parabolic taper that I can't match up with what I know as a parabola.

Fred
 
My bad too early in the a.m. for me thats what I meant conical not parabolic!!

Parabolic taper is more like a hour glass thinner in the middle section
 
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Cornerman said:
I hear this term all the time and I swear eveybody has a different definition. What do you guys define as a parabolic taper???

I mean, I know what a parabola is. I've seen some definitions of parabolic taper that I can't match up with what I know as a parabola.

Fred

Parabolic is used very loosely. Webster says parabolic is "of, having the form of, or relating to a parabola."

Well, parts of the taper might truly be parabolic, parts may be hyperbolic, parts (close to the ferrule) are either constant or linear (conical)...some parts may technically be trigonometric and not specifically be parabolic or hyperbolic.

Having a degree in math, I cringe a little when I hear a cuemaker say his taper is parabolic.

A very simple way to categorize a parabolic taper on a shaft would be: Different sections of my shaft have different tapers, and they cannot all be described by linear relationships when comparing diameter to length.

Technically, a shaft can have (and some actually do) multiple tapers, and not be conical, but each section can be described using a linear relationship. The rate of change varies, but the rate itself, in each section, is linear. Not a conical shaft, not parabolic.

Just my perspective, different people look at it different ways.
Kelly
 
close...

Kelly_Guy said:
Parabolic is used very loosely. Webster says parabolic is "of, having the form of, or relating to a parabola."

Well, parts of the taper might truly be parabolic, parts may be hyperbolic, parts (close to the ferrule) are either constant or linear (conical)...some parts may technically be trigonometric and not specifically be parabolic or hyperbolic.

Having a degree in math, I cringe a little when I hear a cuemaker say his taper is parabolic.

A very simple way to categorize a parabolic taper on a shaft would be: Different sections of my shaft have different tapers, and they cannot all be described by linear relationships when comparing diameter to length.

Technically, a shaft can have (and some actually do) multiple tapers, and not be conical, but each section can be described using a linear relationship. The rate of change varies, but the rate itself, in each section, is linear. Not a conical shaft, not parabolic.

Just my perspective, different people look at it different ways.
Kelly

you have given a pretty good working def of parabolic as applied to cues

some shafts actually do have SECTIONS of what is refered to as
'the taper' that are parabolic, rather than linear.

keep in mind, that in cue shaft speak 'taper', as in 'pro taper'
actually means 'lack of taper'

Balabushka was known for making 'parabolic butts'
the butt sleve section had a sort of trumpet shape
due, IMHO, to the fact he didn't use weight bolts.

Dale
 
Kelly_Guy said:
Parabolic is used very loosely. Webster says parabolic is "of, having the form of, or relating to a parabola."

Well, parts of the taper might truly be parabolic, parts may be hyperbolic, parts (close to the ferrule) are either constant or linear (conical)...some parts may technically be trigonometric and not specifically be parabolic or hyperbolic.

This brings up a question for me... Do you guys consider the whole of the shaft when you talk about the taper, or are you just speaking of the shape the taper bar (for example)? I've always just considered the shape of the taper bar, thus ruling out the ability to call it hyperbolic. I've always called them parabolic or reverse parabolic. (Parabolic being the curve going in making it thinner, reverse parabolic being the curve going AWAY from the center making it a fatter taper). If you consider the whole of the shaft instead of just the actual taper itself, I don't see how you can consider anything Parabolic. I don't have a degree in math, so please don't think I'm making fun, I'm just attempting to clarify. Thanks for the excellent discussion, Fred.
 
shakes said:
This brings up a question for me... Do you guys consider the whole of the shaft when you talk about the taper, or are you just speaking of the shape the taper bar (for example)? I've always just considered the shape of the taper bar, thus ruling out the ability to call it hyperbolic. I've always called them parabolic or reverse parabolic. (Parabolic being the curve going in making it thinner, reverse parabolic being the curve going AWAY from the center making it a fatter taper). If you consider the whole of the shaft instead of just the actual taper itself, I don't see how you can consider anything Parabolic. I don't have a degree in math, so please don't think I'm making fun, I'm just attempting to clarify. Thanks for the excellent discussion, Fred.

No harm here regarding making fun...its all good...I hope my post didn't come off the wrong way.

Regarding: "I've always just considered the shape of the taper bar, thus ruling out the ability to call it hyperbolic."
Hyperbolic is not describing the concavity or inflection, it is a curve that may look parabolic, but is created by a different equation.

Regarding: "I've always called them parabolic or reverse parabolic. (Parabolic being the curve going in making it thinner, reverse parabolic being the curve going AWAY from the center making it a fatter taper)."
I don't think there really is a thing called "reverse parabolic". Some taper bars have the curves on both sides, making the width of the bar the same dimension its entire length. Both sides have the same taper and can be described by the same set of equations. Also, there will be inflection points in a shaft, creating both concave and convex areas.

Curves can be Circular, elliptical, parabolic, hyperbolic, etc. They are all described by different specific equations that are not linear. It isn't really plausible for a cuemaker to say...the first 6 inches of my shaft I have a very very small linear taper...the next 4 inches the taper picks up every so slightly even more but is still linear...then 10 inches to 18 inches it changes to a parabolic taper yielded by such and such equation, then the next 6 inches the taper is back to linear...then the last 5 inches is another parabolic curve yield by such and such equation.... Instead, the cuemaker looks at the curves that defines his taper from others, knows the rate of change is not linear (may or may not truly be defined by a parabola...may be several pieces of a parabola fitted together), and states he uses a parabolic taper.

I think for the most part when people talk about the taper, it is describing the point of the shaft where the change in diameter is largest, that area that varies more than other areas from cue to cue. Personally, if I talk about taper, I'm talking about both the curves of the taper bar, and the curves of the shaft equally, and the location of where they start and stop. Though the final product is changed somewhat due to final sanding, the curves of the taper bar dictate the
curves of the shaft. The locations where the curves start and stop is important as well, which is what I think Dale was pointing out about the pro taper.
 
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> Just think of a standard,old school Coke bottle,stretched out to 29" or so long. Tommy D.
 
I measured many a shaft when I was getting started and found that most were simply 2 or 3 different straight tapers blended together. When sighting down the length of the shaft, the transitions were glaringly obvious. Some, though, had a nice, smooth radius throughout the middle portion of the shaft. These were the ones I considered as having a "parabolic" taper.

The taper I generally use now is similar: The joint portion of my shaft has a conical taper very close to the butt taper. The stroking area has a very minute conical taper - about .007" in 10 inches. Then I use a 1000 inch radius to blend the two together. I make a stiffer shaft that is pretty much the same except it has a 2000 inch radius.

This is one of those areas where CNC is a bit helpful.
 
taperdiagram.jpg

This is how I define the various tapers. I have exagerated the tapers to make my diagram more clear.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Damn, I dunno what to call my taper. It has 4 different tapers.

If there is any part of it that is not linear, just call it a shaft with parabolic taper. :D :p :D
 
I always thought parabolic meant no straight section anywhere. A gradual increase in diameter from tip to joint. It doesnt have to be conical.
 
Canadian cue said:
taperdiagram.jpg

This is how I define the various tapers. I have exagerated the tapers to make my diagram more clear.
Okay. IMO, this is exactly how I define them. And.... to reallly shock people, I think the parabolic taper is the same as the original Pro Taper. I've said it here before that Rambow came up with the "Pro taper" but he actually had growth whereas many cuemaker thought that he started with a delay.

So, now that's more fodder. Today, there's a difference between parabolic and delayed cylinder. But, then the term "pro taper" takes on a new life. IMO, the original pro taper was a parabolic taper.

Fred
 
fullsplicefiend said:
I always thought parabolic meant no straight section anywhere. A gradual increase in diameter from tip to joint. It doesnt have to be conical.
Well, there is no straight section. First 10 inches is 2 thou per inch then more.
Right at the collar is about 16 thou per inch to match the forearm.
I'll just call it complicated taper.:D
 
JoeyInCali said:
Well, there is no straight section. First 10 inches is 2 thou per inch then more.
Right at the collar is about 16 thou per inch to match the forearm.
I'll just call it complicated taper.:D

That's the truth... :p :D
 
JoeyInCali said:
Well, there is no straight section. First 10 inches is 2 thou per inch then more.
Right at the collar is about 16 thou per inch to match the forearm.
I'll just call it complicated taper.:D
Basically as illustrated although the height-to-width of the parabola depends on the material deviation from longitudinal axis. First 3 inches from the joint tracks the slope of the forearm.
 

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bandido said:
Basically as illustrated although the height-to-width of the parabola depends on the material deviation from longitudinal axis. First 3 inches from the joint tracks the slope of the forearm.
I like you even better now. :)
Let's get that puppy rippin', leave the first 3 of the collar ends around 2 thou oversized so I can just use 800 grit and the fkkrs are matched. :D
Hey, Jon, ya listenin'?
Start savin for the BandidoNC.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I like you even better now. :)
Let's get that puppy rippin',
Start savin for the BandidoNC.
It's a rippin'! Check the measurements on that spec sheet against the motor you've got, will you? You're holding up the "rippin'"!
BandidoNC?:)

Fred, check out "Torture". That's a high-ratio parabolic taper.
 
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