Patience, or a change in strategy?

J

jongreve

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you feel like you aren't getting the opportunities you need to win at the table:

Do you stay steady and patient knowing that it is just a temporary swing in luck that will correct itself in time?

Or temporarily change your approach in an attempt to provide yourself with more opportunities until the trend corrects?
 
I definitely consider changing strategy. I think the strategy depends in large part on your level and your opponent's level.

In general if the opponent is weaker than me (in which case I'm probably giving them weight), I'll tighten way up and try to create traffic. Maybe try to get them on three fouls. I might try soft breaking. I'll do everything I can to control the table until I can get a simple runout.

If the player is better than me, I know I'm not going to win unless I get into stroke. So I'll tighten up a little and play safe with the goal of getting control of an open table early on and then running out. If I'm not playing well I'll try things like shortening my stroke and using less English to try to get into stroke.

Edit: I should note that I play mostly 9-ball, and mostly leagues/tournaments. So the strategy is "win now." In a long gambling session the approach may be different.
 
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Stay calm. No one ever won anything freaking out. Luck is just probability. Sometimes it doesn't go your way for entire games. It happens.

Stick to your game. It's what is going to bail you out if anything is. Unless you're truly in an all or nothing situation low probability shots are just going to get you further behind.

If I can lay down good safety play I find that the other guy cracks before I do. I just wait for them to make a mistake mentally or on the table.

You need to have your game plan laid out before you get into serious competition. You need to recognize your strengths and weaknesses and be flexible enough to take advantage of your opponents strengths and weaknesses. Pay attention to their game as well as your own. Sometimes you just get out matched.

Doubt will kill you.
 
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I deifnitely stay calm. No sense in stressing about things you cannot control. The rolls will shift in your favor. Just play smart, play your game, and you'll be better off in the long run.
 
Depends on who you are playing. Weaker players tend to give more opportunities due to more errors, and if they aren't it's usually luck that should swing your way eventually.

Against stronger players, you need to extricate those opportunities with good safety play. You won't win many matches against tough competition waiting for them to make an unforced error.
 
Thanks for the input,

Its nothing I was really stressing about (yet). I've just recently been getting back into competition, and have objectively noticed some situations that I give more merit to than I used to. And was curious as to what the general consensus was. In addition, I'm sure I'm not the only one pondering such ideas and wouldn't mind bringing more opinions to the surface.

Playing your opponent makes more sense now than it used to. I rarely gave it much thought in the past, instead focused on playing the percentages within my own game. I guess I never thought I was good enough for it to matter very much, but I'm starting to see things a little differently now.

Thanks again,
-Jon
 
If I'm playing someone I genuinely fear then I play what I consider to the best, highest percentage shot. if that shot is a safe then I play the safe. Whatever will give me the best chance to win.

The only time I really play something OTHER than what seems like the best play on-paper is vs. weaker players where it doesn't matter anyway. Then I'll take a flyer.

I guess what I'm saying is... if you're in a game or a set you can lose, there really should only be one way you're playing... and there's no percentage in changing it. You only really need to alter something if you start out the match assuming it's something you can't lose and then get rudely awakened :)

That being said, if I have a full table bank on the 9 to win the US open then I probably take it no matter what. I dunno if that goes with or against everything written above >_<
 
Cameron Smith said:
Depends on who you are playing. Weaker players tend to give more opportunities due to more errors, and if they aren't it's usually luck that should swing your way eventually.

Against stronger players, you need to extricate those opportunities with good safety play. You won't win many matches against tough competition waiting for them to make an unforced error.
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I agree, in a situation where you are playing someone who is better you must force an error. Good safety play will take you a long way. You do not always have to be on the offensive to win a match. Sure there are times we all take a gamble on a shot we know we should just play safe on....but for the most part those can turn into disasters against a player of equal or better skill than yourself. As stated by others weaker opponents give more opportunity to take those shots, and if anything happens otherwise it is more than likely just the luck of the roll, and it will usually end up in your favor as time plays out. Luck is a great thing, but talent will prevail over luck in a long race.....luck only last so long.
 
jongreve said:
If you feel like you aren't getting the opportunities you need to win at the table:

Do you stay steady and patient knowing that it is just a temporary swing in luck that will correct itself in time?

Or temporarily change your approach in an attempt to provide yourself with more opportunities until the trend corrects?
Click to expand...

In My experience, there is no such thing as luck. ~ Obi Wan Kenobi

Its all about momentum. Most matches are won or lost due to shifts in momentum - and how we react to those shifts. Each shift in momentum has what is called a precipitating event, which either shifts the momentum in your favor, or out of your favor. Recognizing when these precipitating events occur is half the trick to learning whether or not the momentum is in or out of your favor.

Picture a situation where you have run 2 or 3 racks in succession only to scratch on the 8 ball to give your opponent and easy ball in hand shot to win a game. Your reaction to that can make all the difference as to whether or not you get the pendulum to swing back in your direction. Your opponent's reaction to that same event is also important. He can remain calm and focused on running some racks back on you - or - he can allow the excitement caused by your error to generate feelings of over-confidence.

We've all been on both sides of that.

It's the same thing with trends and slumps - they have precipitating events as well. This works in both directions - positively and negatively. If you start getting those opportunities to win, there will be a precipitating event that will start that shift in the momentum - you just have to recognize it and take full advantage of it.

Chances are, you are already getting these opportunities, you just have not been able to find a way to ride the wave of momentum yet. Many times, this is the case when players believe that momentum only shifts within the physical occurrences on the table. Momentum also shifts psychologically - and you need to be prepared for that.

Psychological Momentum - the positive or negative change in cognition, affect, physiology, and behavior caused by an event or series of events that affects either the perceptions of the competitors or, perhaps, the quality of performance and the outcome of the competition. Positive momentum is associated with periods of competition, such as a winning streak, in which everything seems to ‘go right’ for the competitors. In contrast, negative momentum is associated with periods, such as a losing streak, when everything seems to ‘go wrong

Here are some great articles that I have found on this subject. The articles are geared towards other sports, but the lessons can easily be applied to the game of pool.

Riding The Wave of Momentum - by Jeff Greenwald

Leyton Hewitt - Confidence and Momentum in Tennis ~ By Patrick J. Cohn
 
CreeDo said:
That being said, if I have a full table bank on the 9 to win the US open then I probably take it no matter what. I dunno if that goes with or against everything written above >_<
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How would you end up with a corner bank for all the marbles on the 9 ball?....in us open, has it ever been a shot?
 
searcyD said:
How would you end up with a corner bank for all the marbles on the 9 ball?....in us open, has it ever been a shot?
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Pretty unlikely, I know. Hard for someone to have sunk the 7 and 8 but somehow not be in line for the 9. And no matter how tough they get left, I can't imagine them settling for some rail-to-rail safety. They're gonna cut it in from wherever they end up. Ok, pretend I said the 6 and the 7-8-9 are pretty much hangers.
 
Depends. I used to switch it up alot but now I stick with the gameplan and wait for things to shift back my way. Works better when your gambling and you can just keep firing away till it clicks. Not so much for tournamnts where its win now or your out.
 
great post!

Blackjack said:
In My experience, there is no such thing as luck. ~ Obi Wan Kenobi

Its all about momentum. Most matches are won or lost due to shifts in momentum - and how we react to those shifts. Each shift in momentum has what is called a precipitating event, which either shifts the momentum in your favor, or out of your favor. Recognizing when these precipitating events occur is half the trick to learning whether or not the momentum is in or out of your favor.

Picture a situation where you have run 2 or 3 racks in succession only to scratch on the 8 ball to give your opponent and easy ball in hand shot to win a game. Your reaction to that can make all the difference as to whether or not you get the pendulum to swing back in your direction. Your opponent's reaction to that same event is also important. He can remain calm and focused on running some racks back on you - or - he can allow the excitement caused by your error to generate feelings of over-confidence.

We've all been on both sides of that.

It's the same thing with trends and slumps - they have precipitating events as well. This works in both directions - positively and negatively. If you start getting those opportunities to win, there will be a precipitating event that will start that shift in the momentum - you just have to recognize it and take full advantage of it.

Chances are, you are already getting these opportunities, you just have not been able to find a way to ride the wave of momentum yet. Many times, this is the case when players believe that momentum only shifts within the physical occurrences on the table. Momentum also shifts psychologically - and you need to be prepared for that.

Psychological Momentum - the positive or negative change in cognition, affect, physiology, and behavior caused by an event or series of events that affects either the perceptions of the competitors or, perhaps, the quality of performance and the outcome of the competition. Positive momentum is associated with periods of competition, such as a winning streak, in which everything seems to ‘go right’ for the competitors. In contrast, negative momentum is associated with periods, such as a losing streak, when everything seems to ‘go wrong

Here are some great articles that I have found on this subject. The articles are geared towards other sports, but the lessons can easily be applied to the game of pool.

Riding The Wave of Momentum - by Jeff Greenwald

Leyton Hewitt - Confidence and Momentum in Tennis ~ By Patrick J. Cohn
Click to expand...



A great post and great to see BlackJack contributing some of his knowledge.

For myself there are many things to consider as far as my strategy. Short race or an opponent that is capable of turning it into a short battle in a hurry I am inclined to leap on any opportunity to make something happen. Longer race or a player that I don't think is likely to punish me badly for playing a cautious game I am more likely to feel out and feint and stall a bit to study how they play and how to best attack.

Playing too cautiously will cost as many matches as playing too aggressively. Playing with your head instead of your heart and knowing when to defend and when to attack is a huge part of playing pool at a decent level. Sometimes I fail to attack purely to get in an opponent's head. Doing the unexpected can distract them wondering what you are up to. Sometimes I don't attack because the shot doesn't feel right when I am down on it although it is "the right shot" on paper. Likewise, if the shot is too high risk to take on paper but feels right when I am down on it I fire it in, the "right way" to play ignored.

Hu
 
You have all seen the poster:-- Two vultures sitting on a limb waiting for some carrion to snack on . One turns to the other and says,"Patience ,hell. Let's go kill something.

1) If the guy has the edge on you and is getting the rolls, put your cue away and run as fast as you can.

2) If your even or if you have an edge but he is getting the rolls and winning, you have to figure a way to keep him off of the table. Tighten up by eliminating lower percentage shots and by playing safer. Don't leave the object ball any where near the money ball. Do not miss the 7 or 8 trying to get perfect position on the 8 or 9. Cinch those shots for makeable position.

3)The problem with staying with your regular game is you got to have deep
pockets and a lot of time. If he gets 10 ahead of you in a lucky winning streak you then gotta make up ten games before your even. Not counting table time. Which you gotta count.

4) Unless your in it for the ,"experience," if you can't turn it around then you gotta know when to quit."Thanks , but your just too good for me today." Then buy him a beer.
 
jongreve said:
If you feel like you aren't getting the opportunities you need to win at the table:

Do you stay steady and patient knowing that it is just a temporary swing in luck that will correct itself in time?

Or temporarily change your approach in an attempt to provide yourself with more opportunities until the trend corrects?
Click to expand...

Go back to The Basics immediately. I have someone on my team or in my league that I respect just watch me for a couple of racks. Stance, grip, bridge, pre-shot routing, jumping up .... Something always shows up.
 
8Ball48043 said:
Go back to The Basics immediately. I have someone on my team or in my league that I respect just watch me for a couple of racks. Stance, grip, bridge, pre-shot routing, jumping up .... Something always shows up.
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8-ball , that's answering a different(but important) question. That is, if for some reason, your game is not up to it's usual high standards.( You're
doggin' it).

This thread is about watching that other guy roll over you because of luck,
momentum, lack of opportunity for you , whatever you want to call it. Even us 5's experience it. He's winning , your losing and it's not because you're shooting bad. Things just aren't going you're way.

If your not making the shots you are supposed to make ,your advice fits perfectly. Usually with me it's jumping up. That's the main reason I'm George the Jump. Usually, some railbird will mutter ," He came up on that one," and I'll realize what I'm doing and try to control it. An observer can help with that kind of situation. :yeah:
 
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Knowing your opponent's strengths and weaknesses is important in developing a winning strategy. Knowing your own strengths and weaknesses is even more important. You have to have an honest evaluation of your own game. Your strategy probably shouldn't change during a match, unless you find that your personal game isn't up to your expectations.

That being said, the best overall game strategy is to play every shot to the percentages. It's when the percentages change (your banks are off, you're not hitting long shots, etc) that you have to adjust.

Most important is that you can not control what your opponent does, you can only control what you do. Play whatever game you bring to the table on a given night. You can win on an "off" night, if you can adjust to your skill level on that particular night.

Steve
 
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