pause before pulling the trigger?

9

9ballprodigy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i see this a lot with allison fisher and karen corr. they would take they practice stroke and on the final pull-back, they would just pause for 2-3 seconds before they forward stroked and shot the ball. it seems to make them really consistent in their play.

i'm wondering if it would be a good idea to try to adopt this method of play. i've been practicing a lot but also choking more and more so in tournament play. i end up losing to guy i really should easily beat. not sure if it's lack of more practice or just the fact that i don't concentrate (or concentrate too much) during tourneys. just really inconsistent.

pros and instructors, i look forward to your answers.

btw, i'm looking for pool instruction. i live in hawaii so BCA instructors are nil here. any suggestions?
 
Some people do it, some don't. I know that I am much more consistent when I have the pause in my stroke. I would definately try it for a while and see how it works for you.
 
9ballprodigy said:
i see this a lot with allison fisher and karen corr. they would take they practice stroke and on the final pull-back, they would just pause for 2-3 seconds before they forward stroked and shot the ball. it seems to make them really consistent in their play.

i'm wondering if it would be a good idea to try to adopt this method of play. i've been practicing a lot but also choking more and more so in tournament play. i end up losing to guy i really should easily beat. not sure if it's lack of more practice or just the fact that i don't concentrate (or concentrate too much) during tourneys. just really inconsistent.

pros and instructors, i look forward to your answers.

btw, i'm looking for pool instruction. i live in hawaii so BCA instructors are nil here. any suggestions?
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I just recently started using a one half to one second pause at the back of my back swing. It was hard getting used to but I'm starting to see the positive effects.

Perhaps Scott Lee is ready for a trip to Hawaii.:)

Steve
 
IMO the pause on the backstroke is what I'd consider a tool in my toolbox to be used in appropriate situations such as shots that needed a little more power.

I think the pause at the cue ball is WAY more important. Pause at the cue ball on the last practice stroke and evaluate the accuracy of the stroke and contact point. Then (for me) a slightly shorter backstroke and smooth follow through.

The backstroke pause can be dangerous if used on all shots, because I think it promotes too long a sweeping stroke sometimes and that can lead to a slightly off target contact. Of course I play more straight pool, and my need for power strokes is almost never an issue. But even playing 9 ball, if you are in decent line, you don't have to wail at anything.
 
9ballprodigy said:
i see this a lot with allison fisher and karen corr. they would take they practice stroke and on the final pull-back, they would just pause for 2-3 seconds before they forward stroked and shot the ball. it seems to make them really consistent in their play. ...
btw, i'm looking for pool instruction. i live in hawaii so BCA instructors are nil here. any suggestions?
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There is a current long discussion in another forum about this, but I cannot recommend reading it.

Corr and Fisher had strong training in snooker, and were both world champions at that before starting to play pool. Kelly Fisher (no relation?) is another World Snooker Champion who has recently taken up pool with good results. At snooker, fundamentals are everything. If you are used to looking at pool players and their various styles, all the snooker players look like clones. The pause at the end of the back swing is a main feature of a lot of (most?) snooker styles. In the case of Allison, her final eye movement happens at the pause. The pause clearly works very well in the games of lots of snooker players.

You can also find lots of top players of various games who have no pause at the end of the back stroke, so it's clearly not a requirement for good play. You may find it easier to develop a consistent stroke with it, though. If you are going to try it, I think a minimum of a month of trial is needed to see if it works. It's not the sort of thing that you can decide on in three shots.

As for lessons, do you ever get to San Francisco?
 
you already have a pause in your stroke. it might only be .001 of a second, but the laws of physics state there has to be a pause when you start your forward stroke.

would it do you any good to make it 1-2 seconds? perhaps, perhaps not. try it for awhile, see what you think. seek out a very good player in your area, or an instructor, and ask for opinions or for them to observe you. or you can videotape your mechanics and have an instructor critique them for you.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
you already have a pause in your stroke. it might only be .001 of a second, but the laws of physics state there has to be a pause when you start your forward stroke. ...
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Well, no, they don't state any such thing. Physics is my day job, so I suspect I'm right on this one. A ball thrown straight up has no pause at the top. A child on a swing has no pause at the ends of the arc. And many, many players have no pause on their backswings. You can say they do, but technically, and in physics, you would be wrong.

Hope this helps.
 
I have taken multiple lessons with Alli Fisher and Gerda in their pool school and just completed a full day with Scott Lee. Both of these outstanding teachers recommend the pause for various reasons including but not limited to:

1. Allow the opportunity to absolutely shift the eye focus onto the exact OB target without the continuous motion of the cue acting as a distraction (the eye wants to follow motion.)

2.Allows time for the mind to adapt to the idea of reversing the motion of the cue. Without the pause the tendency is to either short stroke (not fully finish the backswing) or to reverse the direction of the cue in a stabbing or jerky motion.

3. Allows a moment for the muscles to relax and prepare for the forward stroke. Without a pause, the muscles tend to remain tight and therefore, resistent to a change in motion.

However, no pro and/or teacher has ever told me that a pause is absolutely necessary and is the best tactic for every player. Rather, they have recommended that the student make a good faith effort to adopt the pause to see if it fits into their mental/physical way of playing pool.

For me, the pause has helped my game SUBSTANTIALLY...that is when I don't revert to my old ways under pressure...short stroke and stab at the ball...mostly on shots that require substantial cue speed.

Try this just for grins. Address the ball. Aim the shot with the cue tip very close to the CB...take ONE backstroke...ALL THE WAY BACK so that the cue tip is AT LEAST as far back as the tip of your middle finger...themn PAUSE for a count of "one thousand one"...then accelerate the forward stroke SMOOTHLY and follow through.

That three part move...one backstroke (no warm ups)...the PAUSE...and the smoothly accelerating forward stroke will give you a reall good idea about what the p;ause stroke feels like.

Shoot 25 easy shots like that and then another 25 with your normal warm up routine but VERBALIZE the "one thousand one" count AFTER you actuall come to a stop at the pause. So, even better, say "PAUSE (when the back stroke stops) and then say "one thousand one"

Finally, I can't say enough good things about Scott Lee. As noted, I've taken lessons from some world class teachers but Scott still identified some very important fundamentals I need to improve on and his style is very friendly and conveys his concepts in a very understandable way.

Regards,
Jim
 
To pause or not to pause, that is the question...

I took lessons from Jerry Briesath, in Madison,Wisconsin, a number of years ago. One of the most beneficial things I learned from him during those lessons was the pause at the back of your last stroke. I didn't "get it" completely until seeing Allison Fisher play at one of her first tournaments here in the USA. Seeing her play with the pause at the back of her last stroke, right in front of me sitting in the front row, finally cemented in my brain what it does for your ability to make every shot consistent, due to the pause on the back stroke. Once I was able to successfully make the adjustment of incorporating the backstroke pause, my accuracy, especially on those table length, razor thin cut shots, increased exponentially. People are constantly amazed at the, what looks to be impossible, cut shots I make from the far end of the table. Without the pause, I wouldn't even think about trying those shots.
 
9ballprodigy said:
i see this a lot with allison fisher and karen corr. they would take they practice stroke and on the final pull-back, they would just pause for 2-3 seconds before they forward stroked and shot the ball. it seems to make them really consistent in their play.

i'm wondering if it would be a good idea to try to adopt this method of play. i've been practicing a lot but also choking more and more so in tournament play. i end up losing to guy i really should easily beat. not sure if it's lack of more practice or just the fact that i don't concentrate (or concentrate too much) during tourneys. just really inconsistent.

pros and instructors, i look forward to your answers.

btw, i'm looking for pool instruction. i live in hawaii so BCA instructors are nil here. any suggestions?
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As I understand it, she pauses because she uses an "unorthodox" eye pattern. If you pay attention to any videos of Allison (especially from the front), you will see that on her final backswing she is looking at the cue ball. She pauses at the end to shift her eyes to the object ball. Lots of top players do this - some just faster than others. Another top player that has an extended pause is Cliff Joyner.

If you have a "standard" eye pattern, you are moving your eyes to the object ball during your backswing - thus you don't need the "extra" pause.

-td
 
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The pause in the backstroke was taught to me by Rnady G. During my course, I had a great pause, but lost it during regular play. At times, when I think about it and take the pause, it does help my accuracy. Just another something I need to work on.
 
I do it but I don't know why , just always have. Do the same thing at the top of my golf swing , some kind of subconscience trigger I must use.

But I would recommend doing what feels natural and not forcing yourself into doing something that you have to make yourself do.

IMO.
 
If it works for Buddy it works for me. :D

Actually it helps me by making my forward stroke more reliable... more structured.
 
^^Buddy Hall, Cliff Joiner....

Don't get stuck thinking the "back" pause is the only one that works. I for one could NOT get used to that one.

Try pausing AT the cue ball...I copied this from Efren....yes Efren, watch him closely. I pause at the cue ball, transfer my eyes to the object ball, and swing away.

The pause, front or back is a timing devise to get your final aim before letting it go.

Gerry
 
Gerry said:
^^Buddy Hall, Cliff Joiner....

Don't get stuck thinking the "back" pause is the only one that works. I for one could NOT get used to that one.

Try pausing AT the cue ball...I copied this from Efren....yes Efren, watch him closely. I pause at the cue ball, transfer my eyes to the object ball, and swing away.

The pause, front or back is a timing devise to get your final aim before letting it go.

Gerry
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i'm with you Gerry. pausing in the middle of the backstroke just completely throws me off. i've tried and tried, and then some, and simply cant do it.

however, i dont consider stopping when you address the cue ball as a Pause. personally i dont have any noticeable pause anywhere that i can tell, but i assume i have a millisecond pause when i make the transition forward?

and i look at the cue ball last. never ever will i buy this "The Cue Goes Where The Eyes Go" concept.

DCP
 
td873 said:
As I understand it, she pauses because she uses an "unorthodox" eye pattern. If you pay attention to any videos of Allison (especially from the front), you will see that on her final backswing she is looking at the cue ball. She pauses at the end to shift her eyes to the object ball. Lots of top players do this - some just faster than others. Another top player that has an extended pause is Cliff Joyner.

If you have a "standard" eye pattern, you are moving your eyes to the object ball during your backswing - thus you don't need the "extra" pause.

-td
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Allison's Personal Eye Pattern is not unorthodox. Actually it's one of the three "standard" eye patterns that we teach (and one of the two that we recommend). You're less efficient moving your eyes back and forth as you move your cue, because the lack of enough focus on each ball (too short of a time span) doesn't allow enough visual information for the brain to be able to process, and provide feedback. The best eye pattern has the eyes locked on the CB anytime the cue is moving...for several reasons.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Allison's Personal Eye Pattern is not unorthodox. Actually it's one of the three "standard" eye patterns that we teach (and one of the two that we recommend).
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IMO, I believe unorthodox is a correct descriptor since it is not the traditional eye pattern used by the majority of players. Simply becuse it is taught, doesn't make it orthodox. E.g. teaching looking at the sky on the 2nd backswing doesn't make that an orthodox pattern. Unorthodox is something that is not a traditionally accepted or used. Allison's eye pattern is only used by only a minority of players. Thus, it is unorothodox. If I recall correctly, even the BCA recognizes and instructs that this is not the primary (standard) eye pattern.

Scott Lee said:
You're less efficient moving your eyes back and forth as you move your cue, because the lack of enough focus on each ball (too short of a time span) doesn't allow enough visual information for the brain to be able to process, and provide feedback. The best eye pattern has the eyes locked on the CB anytime the cue is moving...for several reasons.
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? Did you mean anytime the cue is moving backwards? Otherwise this means that you should be looking at the cue ball when you strike it (when the cue is moving forward on your final swing). But you should (almost) always be looking at the object ball on the cue's final forward swing (that is, the cue is moving but your eyes are NOT locked on the cue ball) I have never taught looking at the cue ball on your final forward swing to any student [except, of course, for certain specialty shots (e.g., jumps, masses)]

IMO, for the majority of the pool playing world, shifting your eyes during the backswing is just as efficient (and effective) as extended pausing at the end. We have more than enough experience in shifting focus quickly during our lives that shifting focus less than a few feet is no more difficult than walking and chewing gum. More importantly, the absence of an extend pause creates continuity of motion and rhythm. When firmly in place, this type of rote execution is one key to consistency. Admittedly though, some players do shift their eyes only during a pause. This is highly effective for them, however, they are in the minority.

-td
 
Scott

Scott Lee said:
Allison's Personal Eye Pattern is not unorthodox. Actually it's one of the three "standard" eye patterns that we teach (and one of the two that we recommend). You're less efficient moving your eyes back and forth as you move your cue, because the lack of enough focus on each ball (too short of a time span) doesn't allow enough visual information for the brain to be able to process, and provide feedback. The best eye pattern has the eyes locked on the CB anytime the cue is moving...for several reasons.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Not that I am disagreeing with you, but I think the qualification might be whether you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I have made a conclusion in a little different area though, Breaking.
I have tried and continue to use Ralf's method of focusing on the CB when I break. Establishing a line of sight for the hit on the head ball, then relegating it to the background while focused on the Cue Ball to finish breaking. It seems to help with CB control overall on the break, and I don't seem to 'suffer' any glancing hits on the head ball.

Normal shots, I just do it without thinking about it, although I immediately establish a line of aim as soon as I get down (practicing rolling wing shots helps with this a lot), and I think I shift once or twice back to the cue ball before the hit shot. I pause slightly at the beginning of the hit stroke, glance briefly at the cue ball, and then affix my eyes back to the line of aim for the final stroke. I do not pause at the back of my stroke, never have, and that to me, is an incontinuous unnecessary action that disturbs rhythm. To me, anyone that pauses at the back of the hit stroke could never be considered as a natural player, strictly logic player. Natural players have a rhythm, they march to a beat, and they just 'flow', and for the most part, are very enjoyable to watch play.

Logic players, seem to be, encumbered with many more unnecessary movements to do the same thing, little though they be. These movements almost become 'security blankets' to some players.

I must admit I have been a little bit of a stinker in the past, and one thing I have fun with, and yes it is a little bit of a shark, is to say something to a player of something he does when he shoots when they are doing it unconsciously, then they get to thinking about it everytime they shoot, and it's all downhill from there. I have done this to friends sometimes just to be ornery.
 
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