Pechauer Pin Type?

Zagiflyer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A friend of mine has an older Pechauer (5+ years old) and he managed to split the shaft lengthwise using it as a break-cue with a phenolic tip. He wants me to make him a new shaft. I haven't seen the cue but I asked him to desribe the joint set-up for me. He says that the pin looks like "a bullet with threads" and that the shaft has a threaded insert in it. I will have to see it; it doesn't sound like a uni-lock but it could be. I'm guessing that the pin may be some type of proprietary Pechauer pin that I will be unlikely to find the necessary taps and inserts for. Does anybody know what Pechauer used for a pin in cues of this vintage and if the tooling/inserts are available? I'll probably just end up telling him to have Pechauer make a new shaft for him becuase the cost of tooling would be way too high to do a single repair anyway.

Thanks,

Zag
 

rhncue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Zagiflyer said:
A friend of mine has an older Pechauer (5+ years old) and he managed to split the shaft lengthwise using it as a break-cue with a phenolic tip. He wants me to make him a new shaft. I haven't seen the cue but I asked him to desribe the joint set-up for me. He says that the pin looks like "a bullet with threads" and that the shaft has a threaded insert in it. I will have to see it; it doesn't sound like a uni-lock but it could be. I'm guessing that the pin may be some type of proprietary Pechauer pin that I will be unlikely to find the necessary taps and inserts for. Does anybody know what Pechauer used for a pin in cues of this vintage and if the tooling/inserts are available? I'll probably just end up telling him to have Pechauer make a new shaft for him becuase the cost of tooling would be way too high to do a single repair anyway.

Thanks,

Zag

I don't know about now but they used to use 3/8X10.

Dick
 

BHQ

we'll miss you
Silver Member
Zagiflyer said:
A friend of mine has an older Pechauer (5+ years old) and he managed to split the shaft lengthwise using it as a break-cue with a phenolic tip. He wants me to make him a new shaft. I haven't seen the cue but I asked him to desribe the joint set-up for me. He says that the pin looks like "a bullet with threads" and that the shaft has a threaded insert in it. I will have to see it; it doesn't sound like a uni-lock but it could be. I'm guessing that the pin may be some type of proprietary Pechauer pin that I will be unlikely to find the necessary taps and inserts for. Does anybody know what Pechauer used for a pin in cues of this vintage and if the tooling/inserts are available? I'll probably just end up telling him to have Pechauer make a new shaft for him becuase the cost of tooling would be way too high to do a single repair anyway.

Thanks,

Zag

talk to scott douglas at pechauer
scott@pechauer.com
it's what they call thier speed joint, sounds like to me
pretty sure it's 5/16x14
won't swear to that though
scott will fix ya up
great guy to deal with
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
What you're talking about is the Pechauer Self-Aligning Quick Release and yes, it's proprietary. Peachauer is getting a little tight as far as letting their parts out anymore but it's worth a try.

They have a piloted insert on the Pechauer Pro series and a flat-face insert on the Pechauer JPs however the pin is the same.

Std. tooling will work as the OD thrd.of the insert is 7/16-14 with a 3/8" long aligning barrel. Unfortunately, you won't be able to use a std. 14 thrd. insert due to the OD of the aligning portion that's on the pin.
Since the shaft is broke, couldn't you use the insert from it?

PM me if you get stuck. Also, Seybert's can sell you a new Pechauer shaft pretty cheap. Call Rick and tell him I sent you. KJ
 

Zagiflyer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for all of the replies. Sounds like it's a proprietary item that needs tooling I don't have to make a new shaft. I had thought of using the insert from the broken shaft but I'm not sure how I would do that and get everything centered if I don't have the correct taps. I could remove the insert and joint ring as a unit and turn down the rear of it to make a dowel and insert the whole thing into a new shaft as a plug; this might actually work if I could keep everything centered well enough but I don't know if this would be a durable repair.

Zag
 

rhncue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Zagiflyer said:
Thanks for all of the replies. Sounds like it's a proprietary item that needs tooling I don't have to make a new shaft. I had thought of using the insert from the broken shaft but I'm not sure how I would do that and get everything centered if I don't have the correct taps. I could remove the insert and joint ring as a unit and turn down the rear of it to make a dowel and insert the whole thing into a new shaft as a plug; this might actually work if I could keep everything centered well enough but I don't know if this would be a durable repair.

Zag

I've done that a number of times with no problems at all. I drill the new shaft out to .500 and two inches deep then bore it using a boring bar to about .530. I then use the butt as a driver with the shaft mounted on the joint so that the shaft turns true. I then cut the old shaft off about two inches in front of the deco-ring. I then turn this two inches of old shaft down to about .530 so that the new shaft is a good fit. You also need to put in three or four slight grooves the length of this tenon for glue release so that there is no hydraulic effect when the shaft and stub are glued together. I always do this as the last project at night as I now glue (using a good slow setting epoxy) the new shaft to the stub of the old shaft while the butt is still in the lathe so that the tip is aligned with the tail-stock and all the excess glue wiped off of the shaft/deco-ring insuring a new straight shaft and butt fit. The next day just turn down to the deco-ring and finish up the shaft as normal.

I use this technique when some one orders a shaft but doesn't leave the butt so that the shaft can be perfectly fitted or when it is a weird deco-ring that would take to long (expensive) to make. I use one of the old cues I have laying around with the same pin to use as a mandrel.

Dick
 

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
BHQ said:
talk to scott douglas at pechauer
scott@pechauer.com
it's what they call thier speed joint, sounds like to me
pretty sure it's 5/16x14
won't swear to that though
scott will fix ya up
great guy to deal with


You are right on Target, they certainly are 5/16-14 threads, however, when build a shaft for a Pechauer you haveto open up the insert a little ans re-tap it. The non-threaded portion of the Pechauer pin is a little over sized and it will not slide into a normal 5/16-14 insert.
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
I can't understand why you'd want to do more work than what is necessary. Specifically, why the dowel? Once the insert is removed from the broken shaft, you install it directly in the new shaft. The ringwork is easy to duplicate. There's no special tooling involved. It's a std 7/16-14 tap. If it's a Pechauer Pro, it has a .030" alum. ring. If it's a Pechauer JP, it has .030" stitch/dash ring.

I've built close to 100 Predator shafts for Pechauer cues and all I can tell you is that these are easy.
 

Zagiflyer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks KJ;

Since the shaft is already destroyed I have nothing to lose here. I guess I was thinking about the dowel because I wasn't sure about cleaning out the old glue and what not from the original insert sufficiently coupled with the fact that I don't want to duplicate any decorative rings. I've seen this cue and as I remember the decorative ring would take me some time to duplicate....I'm new at this. Thanks for all the replies, I'll get this figured out.

Zag
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Here is a pic of the parts that go to make up the Pechauer shaft joint.
The OB-1 is for a Pechauer Pro series that I did about a year ago. Notice the piloted insert. The insert on the right is for a Pechauer JP. It's meant to be installed flush/flat-faced.

The deco rings are the same for each cue except that the alum. ring goes on the Pro series and the stitch/dash goes with the JP. The blk. phenolics are the same for each cue. I stated earlier that the stitch/dash was .030" but it's actually .036". The alum. is .030".

The top blk. is .160" + .030" alum. + .280" bottom blk. Total stack: .470"

If the cue is older than what the parts I'm showing indicate, Pechauer used a stitch ring like the billet(s) in the background. I'm pretty sure it's the billet on the left. The more I look at the one on the right, the more I think I made that one for a Jacoby. Anyway, you'll know once you have the cue in hand.

Like I said, if you get stuck, just ask. I'll try to get you through it. Since you're 'new at this', I won't charge too much,LOL. Just kiddin.

22.jpg
 

Pool101vpweb

Lessons, exotics/repair
Tap size for shaft insert

Hey KJ,

I'm wondering what that size thread is for installing it into the shaft. Is that a 11mm x 1.25 tap size or 10mm?

Take Care,

Aaron
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Neither, it's 7/16x14 with a 3/8" long alignment barrel that's .440" dia.
That's for the piloted Pro series.
The flat-faced JP has the same measurements with the exception of an
alignment barrel length of 1/2".

KJ
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are right on Target, they certainly are 5/16-14 threads, however, when build a shaft for a Pechauer you haveto open up the insert a little ans re-tap it. The non-threaded portion of the Pechauer pin is a little over sized and it will not slide into a normal 5/16-14 insert.

Sounds like a good tool would be one of those mini boring bars. ;)
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neither, it's 7/16x14 with a 3/8" long alignment barrel that's .440" dia.
That's for the piloted Pro series.
The flat-faced JP has the same measurements with the exception of an
alignment barrel length of 1/2".

KJ

Hi Kj:
Did you make that insert??? Looks pretty sporty.
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Hi Mike,
No, I didn't have to make the inserts. They come directly from Pechauer.
Seyberts and Pechauer have a very involved working relationship as you can imagine.
Pechauer builds some Ltd. Editions exclusively for Seyberts and an extention of their courtesy
is to provide me with OEM inserts.
I build a fair number of aftermarket L/D shafts for Pechauer cues and having the correct insert is mandatory.
I did build the billets and the completed OB shaft shown.
You'll notice the OB logo/decal is turned 15* to how OB applies them. This is for builder identity reasons.

All the Best, KJ
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Mike,
No, I didn't have to make the inserts. They come directly from Pechauer.

I build a fair number of aftermarket L/D shafts for Pechauer cues and having the correct insert is mandatory.
I did build the billets and the completed OB shaft shown.
You'll notice the OB logo/decal is turned 15* to how OB applies them. This is for builder identity reasons.

All the Best, KJ


Thanks KJ.
 

Pool101vpweb

Lessons, exotics/repair
Neither, it's 7/16x14 with a 3/8" long alignment barrel that's .440" dia.
That's for the piloted Pro series.
The flat-faced JP has the same measurements with the exception of an
alignment barrel length of 1/2".

KJ



Hmmmm, well this shaft insert I have is for 5/16x14 thread. but the teeth for my 12mmx 1.25 tap line up perfect as far as the OD thread so I'm figuring I'm going to need either a 10 or 11mm x 1.25 tap to install the insert into a blank new shaft. OUtside threads measure 11.20mm and the 10.20mm in the grooves of the outside threads. I think I'm going Ace to play with the tap sizes and get this installed today.
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I've done that a number of times with no problems at all. I drill the new shaft out to .500 and two inches deep then bore it using a boring bar to about .530. I then use the butt as a driver with the shaft mounted on the joint so that the shaft turns true. I then cut the old shaft off about two inches in front of the deco-ring. I then turn this two inches of old shaft down to about .530 so that the new shaft is a good fit. You also need to put in three or four slight grooves the length of this tenon for glue release so that there is no hydraulic effect when the shaft and stub are glued together. I always do this as the last project at night as I now glue (using a good slow setting epoxy) the new shaft to the stub of the old shaft while the butt is still in the lathe so that the tip is aligned with the tail-stock and all the excess glue wiped off of the shaft/deco-ring insuring a new straight shaft and butt fit. The next day just turn down to the deco-ring and finish up the shaft as normal.

I use this technique when some one orders a shaft but doesn't leave the butt so that the shaft can be perfectly fitted or when it is a weird deco-ring that would take to long (expensive) to make. I use one of the old cues I have laying around with the same pin to use as a mandrel.

Dick

I have done that same thing but I did not have the butt to use as a mandrel. I had a molded plastic joint protector that worked just fine.

When the job is finished you can't tell its not original.

Kim
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
A millimeter is .03937"
I'll let you do the math for yourself.
The 1.25mm measurement is the distance btwn threads.
1.25 x .03937 = .0492
1" divided by .0492 = 20.325 TPI.
You're welcome to call it 11.2mm x 1.25mm if you like.
It's also a 7/16x20.
There's a difference of only a couple of thou. btwn the two and since you're going into wood,
it shouldn't be a problem.
What MAY be a problem is if this is going on a Pechauer cue.
Standard 14 TPI inserts aren't compatible with Pechauer's quick-pin.

KJ
 

Pool101vpweb

Lessons, exotics/repair
Hmmmm, well this shaft insert I have is for 5/16x14 thread. but the teeth for my 12mmx 1.25 tap line up perfect as far as the OD thread so I'm figuring I'm going to need either a 10 or 11mm x 1.25 tap to install the insert into a blank new shaft. OUtside threads measure 11.20mm and the 10.20mm in the grooves of the outside threads. I think I'm going Ace to play with the tap sizes and get this installed today.


This turned out to be 11mm x 1.25 tap needed for the shaft insert. I typed in the tap size and found one on Amazon for 8 bucks. It's was the perfect fit and my customer is happy. The cue was one of the models that were signed at the but in stained Birds Eye Maple.

Might help someone else down the road who runs into this one
 
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