It's funny how this thread is suppose to be just an announcement and it just seems to be dragging on. But I wonder why there isn't any US Championship. We have a Canadian championship. One would think a country like the states would have one.
Philippine Open
- Thread starter CebuanoNiNoy
- Start date
Cardinal_Syn said:
We have a US Three Cushion Championship. Wanna know who won the last one? Yup, as you guessed, it was Pedro Piedrabuena of Uruguay, who happens to reside in Queens New York. It was an extremely popular win, too, as Pedro is very well liked by all American three cushion players. The United States is a very heterogeneous society that embraces all comers. When it comes to our sports, we like THE best, not just OUR best. That's why Yao Ming and Ichiro Suzuki are great American icons, and are two of the more marketable stars in American sports.
Dont mean to open Pandora's Box
Wow. What have i opened here?
A Pandora's box i guess
We'll don't mean to, obviously.
But, anyway i want to clarify some things out for some topics that
have been touched along with this thread, so as to straigthen some
things out.
First, the San Miguel Asian Tour, is limited to Asian for just one reason.
That is the qualifying event for the annual WPC on July. Hence it is limited
to Asian only so that it will sees to it that the cream of the crop from Asia will represent the WPC. So it is not meant to be racist
or exclusive but rather it is a way of a qualifying event for the WPC for Asians. I mean that is just but logical, I mean anybody would want to represent their own country or region. Of course there are exceptions those are lured by big money, connections, prestige and the like and those
by political reasons choose to represent another country. But's that
not the norm but rather the exceptions. USA being a heterogenous
culture because of its affluence is indeed something admirable, but
it has some downside too. Rich countries like the US could siphoned
a large pool of talent from other poorer countries (like ours) because
of the lure of the green buck. And then the almigthy dollars could
rule in their hearts instead of patriotism. Men i think you would agree
with me that this does not happen only on sports but even on area
of science and arts.
Second the complete title for the event that i initially posted
here is "All-Filipino Philippine Open", so there is a qualifying word,
to which this event would be "Open" to, and that is, for "All-Filipino".
Third there are least 2 separate events that our country hold yearly
that is "Open" to other countries and regions. Whether you came
from the U.S., Taipei, Japan, Indonesia, Germany, U.K. etc. but
it is by invitation only. I believe this is done so that the Filipino
pool-knowledgeable public will be treated to high-display of pool
and hence would be attractive to sponsors of the event. Coz
prizes are in U.S. dollars you know. And i believe there are other
events also that are open to everybody that are an Asia like
the one in Japan (i think they 3 or more events there yearly
that is open to all nationalities).I dont know in Taipei if they have
one.
So i hope this would straight some things up.
Or i am opening again another Pandora's box ?
Only the next threads will tell...
Wow. What have i opened here?
A Pandora's box i guess
We'll don't mean to, obviously.
But, anyway i want to clarify some things out for some topics that
have been touched along with this thread, so as to straigthen some
things out.
First, the San Miguel Asian Tour, is limited to Asian for just one reason.
That is the qualifying event for the annual WPC on July. Hence it is limited
to Asian only so that it will sees to it that the cream of the crop from Asia will represent the WPC. So it is not meant to be racist
or exclusive but rather it is a way of a qualifying event for the WPC for Asians. I mean that is just but logical, I mean anybody would want to represent their own country or region. Of course there are exceptions those are lured by big money, connections, prestige and the like and those
by political reasons choose to represent another country. But's that
not the norm but rather the exceptions. USA being a heterogenous
culture because of its affluence is indeed something admirable, but
it has some downside too. Rich countries like the US could siphoned
a large pool of talent from other poorer countries (like ours) because
of the lure of the green buck. And then the almigthy dollars could
rule in their hearts instead of patriotism. Men i think you would agree
with me that this does not happen only on sports but even on area
of science and arts.
Second the complete title for the event that i initially posted
here is "All-Filipino Philippine Open", so there is a qualifying word,
to which this event would be "Open" to, and that is, for "All-Filipino".
Third there are least 2 separate events that our country hold yearly
that is "Open" to other countries and regions. Whether you came
from the U.S., Taipei, Japan, Indonesia, Germany, U.K. etc. but
it is by invitation only. I believe this is done so that the Filipino
pool-knowledgeable public will be treated to high-display of pool
and hence would be attractive to sponsors of the event. Coz
prizes are in U.S. dollars you know. And i believe there are other
events also that are open to everybody that are an Asia like
the one in Japan (i think they 3 or more events there yearly
that is open to all nationalities).I dont know in Taipei if they have
one.
So i hope this would straight some things up.
Or i am opening again another Pandora's box ?
Only the next threads will tell...
CebuanoNiNoy said:
First of all, I still don't see this topic as a matter of racism, but it is about unfair business practices. So what that the San Miguel tour is the qualifying tour for the WPC. The UPA Tour in America is the qualifying tour for the WPC in America. Using your argument, we should restrict participation in UPA events to Americans, as if that would be necessary to ensure that the cream, as you call it, rises to the top. Of course, that would mean suddenly embracing a policy of excluding Asians and Europeans from some of pool's more prestigious events, including the BCA Open. Such thinking is unheard of in America, however, so you don't have to worry about Europeans or Asians being excluded from the UPA tour. We simply send the highest finishing Americans from that tour to the WPC.
In the Phillipines, they play the best pool in the world. I admire the Filipinos for their excellence as players. I love the Filipinos on this forum, especially Cebuano Ninoy and Bandido, the most frequent AZB contributors without whom the forum would be far less distinguished.
It's the San Miguel tour organizers practicing unfair business that I have a problem with, and nothing I've read in this thread has in any way legitimized their horrifying methods.
No pandoras box here, Cebuano, just constructive debate among people who respect each other over a policy in Asia that is hard to understand for so many American fans and players.
Repost...I think my response got lost...
The San Miguel Tour is an Asian tour. Pool and baseball/basketball are apples-oranges; regardless of the nationality of their individual players, NBA teams are AMERICAN teams. Your analogy would make sense if an Yugoslavian team is allowed to play in the NBA; as far as I know, they are not.
The Mosconi cup is restricted to European/American players. You can say that it is by definition a restricted competition, ala Ryders cup, but one can argue that the Asian tour by definition (their definition, not your's) is restricted to Asians as a matter of course.
-Roger
sjm said:
The San Miguel Tour is an Asian tour. Pool and baseball/basketball are apples-oranges; regardless of the nationality of their individual players, NBA teams are AMERICAN teams. Your analogy would make sense if an Yugoslavian team is allowed to play in the NBA; as far as I know, they are not.
The Mosconi cup is restricted to European/American players. You can say that it is by definition a restricted competition, ala Ryders cup, but one can argue that the Asian tour by definition (their definition, not your's) is restricted to Asians as a matter of course.
-Roger
sjm,
I hear a lot of back-patting and I agree, this country is great for foreign athletes in general. However, your disdain for these tiny Asian countries trying to restrict certain tournaments to home-grown talent is severely misplaced, imho.
America and Americans can afford to be generous in certain non-consequential arenas: sports, for instance, fits the bill perfectly. And in any case, the US dominates the vast majority of the sports they participate in, and the myriad of American champions give us the lattitude to sit back and congratulate the odd foreigner who snatches a win here and there.
This is not so in a country like the Philipines, or Taiwan, where pool (and little league baseball, for tw) are really the only international sports category that they get to shine in. Efren was interviewed and he said his dream is to have pool entered as an olympic event and for him to win a gold medal for the PI. He then added that the Philipines have never, ever won a gold medal, and he wants to be the first to bring them that glory. How many gold medals do we take home every 4 years?
My point is, your nitpicking sounds righteous enough, but it's merely self-righteous. It's fairly typical of Americans' attitude towards everyone else. On face value you might have a valid point, but it's easy to be expansive and inclusive and unpetty when you're sitting on top of the world.
-Roger (empathy is a cardinal virtue, in my book at least.)
I hear a lot of back-patting and I agree, this country is great for foreign athletes in general. However, your disdain for these tiny Asian countries trying to restrict certain tournaments to home-grown talent is severely misplaced, imho.
America and Americans can afford to be generous in certain non-consequential arenas: sports, for instance, fits the bill perfectly. And in any case, the US dominates the vast majority of the sports they participate in, and the myriad of American champions give us the lattitude to sit back and congratulate the odd foreigner who snatches a win here and there.
This is not so in a country like the Philipines, or Taiwan, where pool (and little league baseball, for tw) are really the only international sports category that they get to shine in. Efren was interviewed and he said his dream is to have pool entered as an olympic event and for him to win a gold medal for the PI. He then added that the Philipines have never, ever won a gold medal, and he wants to be the first to bring them that glory. How many gold medals do we take home every 4 years?
My point is, your nitpicking sounds righteous enough, but it's merely self-righteous. It's fairly typical of Americans' attitude towards everyone else. On face value you might have a valid point, but it's easy to be expansive and inclusive and unpetty when you're sitting on top of the world.
-Roger (empathy is a cardinal virtue, in my book at least.)
buddha162 said:
Buddha, the only thing you wrote that I take issue with is that I have any disdain for any country here. My problem is with a handful of businessman who run a tour in Asia that excludes non-Asians. I don't know their names, and for all I know, they could be from Sweden, Bulgaria, or Mozambique. The actions of a few businessmen doing business in Asia cannot logically be viewed as representing the actions of any country. Having got that off my chest, though, I think there's a lot of truth in what you say, Buddha, and I think there are probably two forces at work here.
First, there is the economic side. In today's global economy, it seems that everybody does business everywhere and that every country embraces foreigners who spend money in their countries in an attempt to earn a profit. Still, and I think you made this point well, as a Western power, perhaps we fail to recognize that the economies of some less developed countries such as the Phillipines are far less global, which can affect attitudes surrounding how business is conducted in such countries.
Second, there is the matter of American history. America has often and accurately been called a country of immigrants, because just over a couple of hundred years back, it was chiefly immigrants that settled America. The result was the creation of a society having a very multinational flavor and heritage. As a country of immigrants, we've always had a chance to see how much people of foreign descent could contribute, and I suspect that, at least in part, this explains why we embrace those of all nationalities.
Anyway, Buddha, thanks for your insights.
Last edited:
Oh dear I really don't like disagreeing with sjm etc.. but then I'm not sure I entirely do? 
However sometime ago I enquired if I could play on the san miguel tour, I even asked if it was possible to represent Thailand given I am married to a Thai. I got a "no" from the tour and no response from the Thai's LOL!
Anyway, as a pool player I would like all tournaments to be OPEN so that I could play in them. However I also don't begrudge a country OR a REGION having a national championship or tour to find the best play in there respective country or continent. OK its not called the Asian championships (for commercial reasons) but that's effectively what it is. I didn't see anyone complaining in the European Championships thread that only Europeans where allowed to enter?
I think the real problem here is that the Americans don't have a national championships to find the best player in America, even though I wouldn't be allowed to enter I think that would be great. Although from what I gather the uk tours are open to anyone but I'm not sure about the European tour? Ah does anyone know if that is open to non-europeans. I don't remember seeing bustamantes name on the results and he lives in Germany doesn't he?
However sometime ago I enquired if I could play on the san miguel tour, I even asked if it was possible to represent Thailand given I am married to a Thai. I got a "no" from the tour and no response from the Thai's LOL!Anyway, as a pool player I would like all tournaments to be OPEN so that I could play in them. However I also don't begrudge a country OR a REGION having a national championship or tour to find the best play in there respective country or continent. OK its not called the Asian championships (for commercial reasons) but that's effectively what it is. I didn't see anyone complaining in the European Championships thread that only Europeans where allowed to enter?
I think the real problem here is that the Americans don't have a national championships to find the best player in America, even though I wouldn't be allowed to enter I think that would be great. Although from what I gather the uk tours are open to anyone but I'm not sure about the European tour? Ah does anyone know if that is open to non-europeans. I don't remember seeing bustamantes name on the results and he lives in Germany doesn't he?
TheOne said:
Don't be silly, my friend. This subject and countless topics on the forum are matters of opinion,and my opinion is just that. Whether it's pool or any other subject, anyone that debates a subject with me in a civil and respectful manner is doing me a service. I always learn a lot when such people debate subjects with me, and often, the result is that my opinion changes. We all have different backgrounds and points of view, and by sharing, we all have a better experience on the forum.
Anyway, TheOne, as far as the topic at hand, I reject the argument that the Asian method of having an all-Asian tour to select its WPC entrants is more than negligibly superior to the Amercian method of having a designated tour open to all in which the highest ranked Americans become America's WPC entrants. As the cost of maintaining a tour restricted on the basis of nationality is the elimination of significant earning opportunities for pool players, whose income opportunities are too sparse to begin with, I say it's a price clearly not worth paying.
Just my opinion, but, as always, I welcome the point of view of others.
All Filipino Philippine Open Update
Here's an update for the much debated event
Extra-sharp Lining leads show of rated billiards bets
Posted 05:39am (Mla time) Feb 14, 2005
Inquirer News Service
Editor's Note: Published on page A26 of the Feb. 14, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer
ANTONIO "Nickoy" Lining banked on a solid breaking game to beat Allan Soliman, 7-2, yesterday at the start of the Hope P1-million All-Filipino Billiard Open qualifying phase at the Bowling Inn and Billiards Center on Taft Avenue, Manila.
After winning the lag, Lining scored three straight runouts to put the pressure on his little-known opponent. He clinched the match by winning three more successive racks.
Also hurdling their matches were the favored Dennis Orcullo, Jeffrey de Luna, Boy Ducanes, Roberto Gomez, Robert Dy and Victor Arpilleda.
Orcullo downed Jun Salazar, 7-6, De Luna beat Jerome Penia, 7-3, Ducanes defeated Andy Tolentino, 7-4, Gomez thrashed Eduardo Reyes, 7-3, and Arpilleda edged Troy Danao, 7-5.
There were also upsets.
Unheralded Alex Lumpay trounced Venancio Tanio, the former national player and Mika Immonen's conqueror in On Cue-II, 7-2, while Leonardo Didal blanked Russian Petiza, 7-0.
The upset-conscious Soliman threatened at
3-4 after Lining's blunder in the sixth frame. But Soliman scratched the cue ball on the eighth rack and helplessly watched his veteran rival run out the next three racks for the win.
The tournament, dubbed as Best of the Best All-Filipino Open sponsored by Hope Cigarettes and Smart Communications Inc., is organized by Puyat Sports boss Aristeo "Putch" Puyat and Jemah Television president Mark Roces and tournament director Rolly Vicente.
The top eight finishers in the three-day elimination will join the seeded players in the Final 16 of the event on Feb. 21-27.
The eight seeded players are Efren "Bata" Reyes, Francisco "Django" Bustamante, Alex Pagulayan, Warren Kiamco, Marlon Manalo, Lee Vann Corteza, Rodolfo Luat and Leonardo Andam.
Marlon Bernardino, contributor
Here's an update for the much debated event
Extra-sharp Lining leads show of rated billiards bets
Posted 05:39am (Mla time) Feb 14, 2005
Inquirer News Service
Editor's Note: Published on page A26 of the Feb. 14, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer
ANTONIO "Nickoy" Lining banked on a solid breaking game to beat Allan Soliman, 7-2, yesterday at the start of the Hope P1-million All-Filipino Billiard Open qualifying phase at the Bowling Inn and Billiards Center on Taft Avenue, Manila.
After winning the lag, Lining scored three straight runouts to put the pressure on his little-known opponent. He clinched the match by winning three more successive racks.
Also hurdling their matches were the favored Dennis Orcullo, Jeffrey de Luna, Boy Ducanes, Roberto Gomez, Robert Dy and Victor Arpilleda.
Orcullo downed Jun Salazar, 7-6, De Luna beat Jerome Penia, 7-3, Ducanes defeated Andy Tolentino, 7-4, Gomez thrashed Eduardo Reyes, 7-3, and Arpilleda edged Troy Danao, 7-5.
There were also upsets.
Unheralded Alex Lumpay trounced Venancio Tanio, the former national player and Mika Immonen's conqueror in On Cue-II, 7-2, while Leonardo Didal blanked Russian Petiza, 7-0.
The upset-conscious Soliman threatened at
3-4 after Lining's blunder in the sixth frame. But Soliman scratched the cue ball on the eighth rack and helplessly watched his veteran rival run out the next three racks for the win.
The tournament, dubbed as Best of the Best All-Filipino Open sponsored by Hope Cigarettes and Smart Communications Inc., is organized by Puyat Sports boss Aristeo "Putch" Puyat and Jemah Television president Mark Roces and tournament director Rolly Vicente.
The top eight finishers in the three-day elimination will join the seeded players in the Final 16 of the event on Feb. 21-27.
The eight seeded players are Efren "Bata" Reyes, Francisco "Django" Bustamante, Alex Pagulayan, Warren Kiamco, Marlon Manalo, Lee Vann Corteza, Rodolfo Luat and Leonardo Andam.
Marlon Bernardino, contributor
CebuanoNiNoy said:Here's an update for the much debated event
Extra-sharp Lining leads show of rated billiards bets
Posted 05:39am (Mla time) Feb 14, 2005
Inquirer News Service
Editor's Note: Published on page A26 of the Feb. 14, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer
ANTONIO "Nickoy" Lining banked on a solid breaking game to beat Allan Soliman, 7-2, yesterday at the start of the Hope P1-million All-Filipino Billiard Open qualifying phase at the Bowling Inn and Billiards Center on Taft Avenue, Manila.
After winning the lag, Lining scored three straight runouts to put the pressure on his little-known opponent. He clinched the match by winning three more successive racks.
Also hurdling their matches were the favored Dennis Orcullo, Jeffrey de Luna, Boy Ducanes, Roberto Gomez, Robert Dy and Victor Arpilleda.
Orcullo downed Jun Salazar, 7-6, De Luna beat Jerome Penia, 7-3, Ducanes defeated Andy Tolentino, 7-4, Gomez thrashed Eduardo Reyes, 7-3, and Arpilleda edged Troy Danao, 7-5.
There were also upsets.
Unheralded Alex Lumpay trounced Venancio Tanio, the former national player and Mika Immonen's conqueror in On Cue-II, 7-2, while Leonardo Didal blanked Russian Petiza, 7-0.
The upset-conscious Soliman threatened at
3-4 after Lining's blunder in the sixth frame. But Soliman scratched the cue ball on the eighth rack and helplessly watched his veteran rival run out the next three racks for the win.
The tournament, dubbed as Best of the Best All-Filipino Open sponsored by Hope Cigarettes and Smart Communications Inc., is organized by Puyat Sports boss Aristeo "Putch" Puyat and Jemah Television president Mark Roces and tournament director Rolly Vicente.
The top eight finishers in the three-day elimination will join the seeded players in the Final 16 of the event on Feb. 21-27.
The eight seeded players are Efren "Bata" Reyes, Francisco "Django" Bustamante, Alex Pagulayan, Warren Kiamco, Marlon Manalo, Lee Vann Corteza, Rodolfo Luat and Leonardo Andam.
Marlon Bernardino, contributor
Thanks for a great update, Cebuano. Sounds like a great tournament.
Just wanted to share this link on the san miguel asian 9-ball tour. It is indeed a qualifying event for WPC 2005.
http://www.espnstar.com/asian9ball/asian9ball_index.html
http://www.espnstar.com/asian9ball/asian9ball_index.html
CebuanoNiNoy said:It's Manny Pacquiao, The One
even against Efren.
Welcome to the Philippines The One!
I saw Manny at the Bicycle Club UPA tournament a few weeks ago in LA. Didn't get to see him shoot, but I heard he can play a little.
sjm said:
honestly i don't consider it unfair. it's legitimate and ethical. san miguel corporation (smc) is a business entity not a philanthropist. i don't think it's after knowing who's the best in the world/asia, neither is it after giving equal opportunity to all pool players to earn. the end of it all is profit. smc's target market is primarily asians and as steve cold austin would put it, it think, "that's the bottom line".
say for instance a company producing infant milk sponsors a competition, i won't be surprised if they will exclude people beyond 2 years of age. maybe this is a ridiculous analogy but i just want to say i think smc will do what will ultimately result to more revenues/profit for them, nothing more noble (i.e. promoting excellence), nothing base (unequal opportunity), just plain business.
sjm said:
The other side is, who gives a shit? I don't care if they don't allow americans in any of thier sports. IT IS THIER OPTION. I don't think it is unfair at all. If eliminating american players from the asian tour allows Asian players to get stronger, earn a living, and make more money MORE POWER TO THEM. If i could make an exclusive Canadian tour with only canadian players i would do it for the reasons listed above. I would be providing Canadian poolplayers jobs that they can make a decent living with, by restricting american players from ever taking the cash. I don't see a problem with this. I think its working for them too, did anyone else notice how many asians from that tour did well in the world championships?
pool and terrorism
Just read online today that there was 2 bombing incidents in Manila City...I hope all the pool players are ok...I wonder if the televised matches will be accessible to viewers in the USA?
CebuanoNiNoy said:Here's an update for the much debated event
Extra-sharp Lining leads show of rated billiards bets
Posted 05:39am (Mla time) Feb 14, 2005
Inquirer News Service
Editor's Note: Published on page A26 of the Feb. 14, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer
ANTONIO "Nickoy" Lining banked on a solid breaking game to beat Allan Soliman, 7-2, yesterday at the start of the Hope P1-million All-Filipino Billiard Open qualifying phase at the Bowling Inn and Billiards Center on Taft Avenue, Manila.
After winning the lag, Lining scored three straight runouts to put the pressure on his little-known opponent. He clinched the match by winning three more successive racks.
Also hurdling their matches were the favored Dennis Orcullo, Jeffrey de Luna, Boy Ducanes, Roberto Gomez, Robert Dy and Victor Arpilleda.
Orcullo downed Jun Salazar, 7-6, De Luna beat Jerome Penia, 7-3, Ducanes defeated Andy Tolentino, 7-4, Gomez thrashed Eduardo Reyes, 7-3, and Arpilleda edged Troy Danao, 7-5.
There were also upsets.
Unheralded Alex Lumpay trounced Venancio Tanio, the former national player and Mika Immonen's conqueror in On Cue-II, 7-2, while Leonardo Didal blanked Russian Petiza, 7-0.
The upset-conscious Soliman threatened at
3-4 after Lining's blunder in the sixth frame. But Soliman scratched the cue ball on the eighth rack and helplessly watched his veteran rival run out the next three racks for the win.
The tournament, dubbed as Best of the Best All-Filipino Open sponsored by Hope Cigarettes and Smart Communications Inc., is organized by Puyat Sports boss Aristeo "Putch" Puyat and Jemah Television president Mark Roces and tournament director Rolly Vicente.
The top eight finishers in the three-day elimination will join the seeded players in the Final 16 of the event on Feb. 21-27.
The eight seeded players are Efren "Bata" Reyes, Francisco "Django" Bustamante, Alex Pagulayan, Warren Kiamco, Marlon Manalo, Lee Vann Corteza, Rodolfo Luat and Leonardo Andam.
Marlon Bernardino, contributor
Just read online today that there was 2 bombing incidents in Manila City...I hope all the pool players are ok...I wonder if the televised matches will be accessible to viewers in the USA?
For those interested, dere's a another update from today:
http://news.inq7.net/sports/index.php?index=1&story_id=27552
http://news.inq7.net/sports/index.php?index=1&story_id=27552
fxskater said:
FX, I fully respect your opinion. and I thank you for sharing it. Let's face it, this is a pretty tircky matter, and I'm sorry for not being a little more open-minded.
Perhaps the USA is unique in judging exclusion based on nationailty to be nealry on a par with exclusion based on race or gender, but I think our choice to embrace foreign nationals in our professional sports is driven by the fact that we've had such a good experience with them in our culturally and ethnically diverse society.
Guess I'm suggesting Asia might well have a similarly positive experience if it opened its professional sports doors wider to foreign nationals.
Have a nice evening, FX.