Phillipino dominance?

[buddha162]

It seems like you brush Germany off like it's nothing. Look at the resumes of Souquet and Ortmann. And look at how great Hohmann and Engert play. Those four play just as good as any four of the top Taiwanese players. If you don't think so, please explain why.

I think Souquet is one of the best 9-ball players EVER. Him and Hohmann is on par with any other pair in the world, be it Taiwanese or Filipino or Bangladeshi. Engert and Ortmann (at least in recent years) would slightly weaken the team, but they will still be 100% viable in any 4-man competition.

But that's not my point. Depth of Talent, to me, simply represent the number of pool players from each country, period, NOT depth of talent among the top 5.

The top 100 best players from Taiwan would destroy and annihilate (like that Roadie? lol) the top 100 players from Germany. This is reality, it's not my version of it. Hell, the top 20 players would have 10-1 odds in winning by a large margin.

We're talking about a country where pool is not "like" a national sport, it IS the national sport...complete with funding from public money, middle school and high school teams, a 3-tiered pro tour (including a farming league for the amateurs), hours of live coverage per week, and hundreds of 24/7 pool halls in its capital city alone.

Anyways Buddha, I'm sure you like Yang in this match up against Orcullo. If you'd like, how about a small bet via paypal? Nothing big, I don't bet high. I'll bet up to $50 on Orcullo. Friendly bet, just for a little fun and excitement. What do you say?

I'm not sure why you think I like Yang in this match-up...I would like to see him win, but that's different, isn't it? I think this match is dead nuts even, and to make this uber-friendly I'll bet $25 on Yang.

-Roger

 

[buddha162]

You win, you're right, you rock.

I win, but I don't rock.

Thank you,
Roger

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I think this will give people some insight of what's been happening.

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/current_issue/oct_06/BD_OCT_feature.pdf

Note how carefully they chose the tournaments to be included.

This quote is pretty interesting;

“I would say that Europe as a whole is
stronger than the U.S. as a whole, and I
don’t think either one of them is competitive
to Asia,” said John Lewis, treasurer
and board member of the World Pool-
Billiard Association (WPA).

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I think Souquet is one of the best 9-ball players EVER. Him and Hohmann is on par with any other pair in the world, be it Taiwanese or Filipino or Bangladeshi. Engert and Ortmann (at least in recent years) would slightly weaken the team, but they will still be 100% viable in any 4-man competition.

But that's not my point. Depth of Talent, to me, simply represent the number of pool players from each country, period, NOT depth of talent among the top 5.

The top 100 best players from Taiwan would destroy and annihilate (like that Roadie? lol) the top 100 players from Germany. This is reality, it's not my version of it. Hell, the top 20 players would have 10-1 odds in winning by a large margin.

We're talking about a country where pool is not "like" a national sport, it IS the national sport...complete with funding from public money, middle school and high school teams, a 3-tiered pro tour (including a farming league for the amateurs), hours of live coverage per week, and hundreds of 24/7 pool halls in its capital city alone.



I'm not sure why you think I like Yang in this match-up...I would like to see him win, but that's different, isn't it? I think this match is dead nuts even, and to make this uber-friendly I'll bet $25 on Yang.

-Roger

I agree with everything you said. See? misunderstanding.

$25 it is. Good luck to you sir.

 

[Roadie]

Roger,

I will take the 10:1 odds pitting the top five Taiwanese/Filipinos against the top five Americans/Europeans. Each player shall play against each player on the other team a race to 9 games.

Each match shall be worth $1000 against your $10,000.

That will be 9 matches per player, 81 for the team total, every player matched up against the entire other team. That ought to settle it with plenty of stats to go around. I have $81,000 against your $810,000, pay out every match.

Should be no problem, right? Or if you don't want to bet each match because you know, sometimes people get lucky and win a match here and there that they aren't supposed to then lets bet the margin of victory. What kind of a margin of victory defines anhilliation? 4:1? 3:1? 1/10th?

I will be willing to bet the whole way that the West gets at least half the sets. That's a pretty big statement in the face of billiards armageddon but hey, getting 10:1 on the money is worth the shot and I wouldn't want to be thought of as a nit or anything. Do you think you can get anyone in Taiwan and the Phillipines to agree with your sentiments that the West is not even close, that they would get slaughtered? I don't mean agree academically, I mean do you think you can get anyone to back up your statements with the odds you proposed with actual money? (should you want to bet the whole match rather than individual match ups, I'd like to have a personal sweat bet with you of $100/$1000 per match).

If so, then I am prepared to begin arrangements to make this event happen. It won't be a pansy exhibition but a real money game fight where the East has to back up the expectations of their frothing fans. 10:1 is enough to make fools take a shot and I am certainly a fool in that category. The cash will be on the light, pay out every set, netcast the whole thing and let the anhiliation begin.

Lastly,

If you want to organize a road trip for your 11-90 ranked players in Taiwan and have them go to Germany they are more than welcome to play Germany's 11-90 ranked players in 9-ball, 8-ball and 14.1. These are the dominant disciplines in organized pocket billiards and should be no problem for your players to wipe out the Germans. We will just take the Bundesliga players and cut the ones with international experience until we have 90 left and let them have fun. I am betting that your version of "anhiliation" wouldn't quite make the cut in the real world. While the Germans might not win, and I say might quite deliberately, they certainly won't lose by any large margins either. And that scenario belies your comments completely.

It's easy to make such foolish statements when you have no experience on both sides. And you don't. I am pretty comfortable stating that you don't have any experience in the German league system or at German pool tournaments. I, on the other hand have some experience in Taiwan, playing in tournaments, playing for money, working with Taiwanese trainers, attending larger events, and I have a direct line with several influential pool room owners in Taipei and Taichung. So, while this discussion is always going to be academic, you don't have to make it personal, because when you do that you spoil the fun.

I realize you are wildly passionate about the great amount of talent you see developing in Taiwan and the Phillipines. In this discussion you present that passion as logic. But you speak from a position of not knowing the pool world from the inside out, from the street level on up. There is a big difference between thinking you know and really knowing.

Taiwan does not have an army of world beaters ready to slaughter the world (except for the Philipines) in 9 Ball. Taiwan has a boatload of great player and a handful of world class ones. So does the Phillipines, so does the United States, so does Europe. In all of these places, in all of the respective systems that forge a player's skill, the cream rises to the top and the skill level of those top players is very close.

Where our argument seems to hinge on is what is the level of the players who are left? I submit that there is a very high average level in Germany/Europe, not one that would allow for their players to be completely destroyed by similarly ranked players in Taiwan or the Phillipines. As there is no way to truly test this I suppose the debate will have to be left at both of us standing at different poles.

 

[Roadie]

I think this will give people some insight of what's been happening.

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/current_issue/oct_06/BD_OCT_feature.pdf

Note how carefully they chose the tournaments to be included.

This quote is pretty interesting;

“I would say that Europe as a whole is
stronger than the U.S. as a whole, and I
don’t think either one of them is competitive
to Asia,” said John Lewis, treasurer
and board member of the World Pool-
Billiard Association (WPA).

And John Lewis has been around the game a long time. But, this like mine and everyone else's is opinon with no real way to test.

If you are looking for certain results then you can tweak the dataset until you get them.

Let's just hope that someday in our lifetimes the aspiring poolplayers from each country will have a chance to compete internationally and get ranked internationally. I would guess that the World Tennis Association's rankings are a pretty good snapshot of which country is dominating tennis by having the most high ranked players. It would be nice if we had something similar in pool.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Isn't that what WPA is for?

MatchRoom in particular are very good on gauging the tournaments that count.


Bandido,

Why do you think Filipinos are late bloomers? We hardly have any junior contenders. Most of the Philippines great players are in their early forties or older.

 

[gopi-1]

Isn't that what WPA is for?

MatchRoom in particular are very good on gauging the tournaments that count.


Bandido,

Why do you think Filipinos are late bloomers? We hardly have any junior contenders. Most of the Philippines great players are in their early forties or older.

Filipinos are not late bloomers, and they have an abundance of teen talents.
The problem is getting out to play, because getting a visa is just like hitting
the winning numbers in a lottery, which is very hard to get.

 

[Roadie]

It's what the WPA should be for and what they probably aspire to be for, but not hardly what they are actually doing.

Matchroom provides one major tournament with it's own rules, on it's own equipment, it changes the rules and the equipment specs as it wants to. The participants to the WC are mostly selected by the countries themselves. Others get in through qualifiers which makes me wonder why there even are qualifiers for the World Championships. Shouldn't the World Championships be contended by players who have earned a spot through tournament play and high rankings throughout the year? Why should a player be allowed to get into the World's through a pre-tournament?

The other Matchroom tournaments are invitationals for the most part. I think, I am not sure if any are open but I am sure someone will correct me.

There is no world tour, there is no juniors world tour, there are no consistent ways for an person to go from being an amateur to a pro pool player on this Earth. There is no ranking system that makes sense. Perhaps the BD Power Index does. Maybe a start in the right direction would be to use that as the standard to rank players. But how do you realistically rank players who play primarily in different systems?

In some places if you want to be a pro you gamble your way to the top. In others you can come up through the league system, in others you can actually find organized training and compete in higher and higher level tournaments. But there is really nothing on the world level that a player can use as a measure of progress other than gambling and going to whatever events are on offer and mixing it up.

The WPA should foster a worldwide junior program. Players should be competing regularaly in 14.1, 9-ball, and 8-ball, and One Pocket (my wish). They should be able to compete in those disciplines and move into the same disciplines with the same rules in the pro ranks. There should be a definite path to the pros that is consistent in every country that participates in the pro world championships under the WPA flag.

The WPA should organize with it's member countries a series of tournament s that are ranking events. Each country should send it's best players who are ranked based on WPA events and NONE OTHER to the world championships. The only way to get into the world's should be by earning your way in through national ranking events. That's it. WPA ranking events are open to all players everywhere and there is one rank list that counts. Points are awarded based on participation of ranked players.

So if a tournament is held in the USA and it draws ten top 20 WPA players and 22 non-ranked players it would not award points as high as a tournament in Sweden that attracted 32 top 50 WPA ranked players. This assures that the points awarded can be based on the relative strength of the field. Such a system would allow for players to earn points and rise in rankings locally until the point value of local tournaments couldn't help them anymore and they would move to the next level of stronger fields with higher points.

In this way there would be a true measure of which country fields the best players.

Okay WPA, the IPT failed, you have seen what the players will pay to participate when the money is there. All of us on AZ agree that the world's players will play for a lot less. So get some money in the game and start building a viable world professional tour and a viable world amateur tour to feed it.

 

[buddha162]

Roger,

I will take the 10:1 odds pitting the top five Taiwanese/Filipinos against the top five Americans/Europeans. Each player shall play against each player on the other team a race to 9 games.

Each match shall be worth $1000 against your $10,000.

That will be 9 matches per player, 81 for the team total, every player matched up against the entire other team. That ought to settle it with plenty of stats to go around. I have $81,000 against your $810,000, pay out every match.

Should be no problem, right? Or if you don't want to bet each match because you know, sometimes people get lucky and win a match here and there that they aren't supposed to then lets bet the margin of victory. What kind of a margin of victory defines anhilliation? 4:1? 3:1? 1/10th?

I will be willing to bet the whole way that the West gets at least half the sets. That's a pretty big statement in the face of billiards armageddon but hey, getting 10:1 on the money is worth the shot and I wouldn't want to be thought of as a nit or anything. Do you think you can get anyone in Taiwan and the Phillipines to agree with your sentiments that the West is not even close, that they would get slaughtered? I don't mean agree academically, I mean do you think you can get anyone to back up your statements with the odds you proposed with actual money? (should you want to bet the whole match rather than individual match ups, I'd like to have a personal sweat bet with you of $100/$1000 per match).

If so, then I am prepared to begin arrangements to make this event happen. It won't be a pansy exhibition but a real money game fight where the East has to back up the expectations of their frothing fans. 10:1 is enough to make fools take a shot and I am certainly a fool in that category. The cash will be on the light, pay out every set, netcast the whole thing and let the anhiliation begin.

Lastly,

If you want to organize a road trip for your 11-90 ranked players in Taiwan and have them go to Germany they are more than welcome to play Germany's 11-90 ranked players in 9-ball, 8-ball and 14.1. These are the dominant disciplines in organized pocket billiards and should be no problem for your players to wipe out the Germans. We will just take the Bundesliga players and cut the ones with international experience until we have 90 left and let them have fun. I am betting that your version of "anhiliation" wouldn't quite make the cut in the real world. While the Germans might not win, and I say might quite deliberately, they certainly won't lose by any large margins either. And that scenario belies your comments completely.

It's easy to make such foolish statements when you have no experience on both sides. And you don't. I am pretty comfortable stating that you don't have any experience in the German league system or at German pool tournaments. I, on the other hand have some experience in Taiwan, playing in tournaments, playing for money, working with Taiwanese trainers, attending larger events, and I have a direct line with several influential pool room owners in Taipei and Taichung. So, while this discussion is always going to be academic, you don't have to make it personal, because when you do that you spoil the fun.

I realize you are wildly passionate about the great amount of talent you see developing in Taiwan and the Phillipines. In this discussion you present that passion as logic. But you speak from a position of not knowing the pool world from the inside out, from the street level on up. There is a big difference between thinking you know and really knowing.

Taiwan does not have an army of world beaters ready to slaughter the world (except for the Philipines) in 9 Ball. Taiwan has a boatload of great player and a handful of world class ones. So does the Phillipines, so does the United States, so does Europe. In all of these places, in all of the respective systems that forge a player's skill, the cream rises to the top and the skill level of those top players is very close.

Where our argument seems to hinge on is what is the level of the players who are left? I submit that there is a very high average level in Germany/Europe, not one that would allow for their players to be completely destroyed by similarly ranked players in Taiwan or the Phillipines. As there is no way to truly test this I suppose the debate will have to be left at both of us standing at different poles.

You are spending a massive amount of time trying to relate this little fantasy of yours...and now a challenge post, a "put up or shut-up" post, which really had me lmao.

In any case, my hypothetical was 10:1 pitting the best 20 players from Taiwan or the PHI against Germany...not the top 5, which misses my point entirely. I said as much in my post to Cuetechasaurus, that the German team of Hohmann/Souquet/Engert/Ortmann could compete with any other 4 man team in the world. You should read carefully before you open up with such a long-winded, asinine response.

-Roger

 

[k1d]

oh how can we forget that the filipinos swept the san miguel asian tour last year.

not by one player, but 4 different players.. reyes, luat, corteza? and gallego?

 

[bandido]

Bandido,

Why do you think Filipinos are late bloomers? We hardly have any junior contenders. Most of the Philippines great players are in their early forties or older.

Not really late bloomers. Last year was the first time that a representative was sent, thanks to Mr. Yen Makabenta, to the World Youth 9-Ball tournament. Nobody really wanted to participate in a tournament with no monetary gain. The pool savvy financiers here also know that peak condition and adequate battle experience gained are when the player is in their mid-20s. There are a few of us who work with the youth right now who's number is really rising.

 

[BlowFish]

Roadie, is this not a system that WPA, Matchroom and it's sponsors have put in place for WPC?

http://www.worldpoolchampionship.com/qualification_system.asp

 

[JamisonNeu]

I am abushing this thread. I have not read anything other than the title.

Pool has been world wide for over 100 yr's. If you think that anyone other than the USA has dominated this sport, you are wrong.

Since Mr. De Ore this game has been dominated by the USA. Almost every year since the depression. I am glad that we have strong competition. It's nice to see other country's playing in this game. This is a good thing for pool. The more players worldwide the better.

Can you imagine a tour with 100 country's being represented? Wouldn't it be nice to see the USA win one of those?

Jamison

 

[crosseyedjoe]

This is bad. This is starting to sound like a payback. Siete(read it fast, LOL), politicking is everywhere these days. Now I'm worried.

I don't question Alcano signing as a Guinness endorser; he needs to earn money, but I hope this won't have a sort of "O. Sullivan's effect" just like the snooker tour in Europe.

This might be a blessing too in one way. Since there might be some hesitation from the top Filipino players to participate because of the "shot out," Filipinos who are waiting on the wing might have a chance to qualify for the WPC which can increase our total number of players. Most of the Filipino top players can already qualify on the upper categories.

I just hope if ever top Filipino players join the tour that they go in there with their "full-heart" even if they don't like what happened to the tour.

----------------


GUINNESS 9-BALL TOUR TO SKIP MANILA
By Ronnie Nathanielsz
02/01/07

ESPN Star Sports announced the launch of the Guinness 9-Ball Tour, but left out Manila, which Billiards Digest recently referred to as “the epicenter of pool.”
Formerly called the San Miguel Asian 9-Ball Tour, ESPN Star Sports said the tour has been made bigger and better for players and fans alike with the new partnership between the sports broadcaster and Guinness. Prize money has doubled to $320,000 with a Grand Final in Bali, Indonesia, featuring the top 10 players.
But the tour will miss two of the greatest pool players of all-time—Efren “Bata” Reyes and his bosom buddy Francisco “Django” Bustamante, who have decided not to compete out of loyalty to San Miguel Beer, which was the original sponsor of the tour since 2003.
Filipino players swept all the stops in last year’s tour and drew the fans, wherever they played.
“Reyes and Bustamante know how to show their loyalty especially because San Miguel chairman Eduardo ‘Danding’ Cojuangco and chief executive and president Ramon Ang have been good to them,” said Aristeo “Putch” Puyat, the recognized godfather of Philippine pool.
But Puyat said he wished 2006 World Pool champion Ronnie Alcano, who signed up as a Guinness endorser all the best, adding he was not against “dispersing our boys where they can earn. It’s good for him.”
The six-nation Guinness 9-Ball Tour will begin in Jakarta on April 20 with players sanctioned by the Asian Professional Billiards Union from Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Thailand, India, China, Chinese Taipei and the Philippines taking part.
It would also serve as a ranking tour in Asia for players to qualify for the World Pool Championships, which will be held in Manila from Nov. 3 to 11. The top 10 finishers in the Guinness 9-Ball Tour “Order of Merit,” will automatically qualify for the WPC, which is considered the most prestigious pool event in the world.
The senior director of ESPN Star Sports Event Management Group Harvey Davis claimed “our tour has not only been the showcase of Asian talents, it has been the incubator of world champions,” referring to Alcano and 2005 champion Wu Chia Ching of Chinese Taipei, whom he referred to as regulars on the Asian 9-Ball Tour.

 

[Roadie]

You are spending a massive amount of time trying to relate this little fantasy of yours...and now a challenge post, a "put up or shut-up" post, which really had me lmao.

In any case, my hypothetical was 10:1 pitting the best 20 players from Taiwan or the PHI against Germany...not the top 5, which misses my point entirely. I said as much in my post to Cuetechasaurus, that the German team of Hohmann/Souquet/Engert/Ortmann could compete with any other 4 man team in the world. You should read carefully before you open up with such a long-winded, asinine response.

-Roger

You're right. I didn't remember the exact terms you stated when I responded. My apologies. Okay then 10:1 Philipines/Taiwan top 20 vs Germany's top 20. I will put up $1000 per individual match against your $10,000 for each individual match. Hypothetically of course. Since this is all academic anyway let's make it a real true marathon test as well.

The Germans play 9-ball, 14.1 and 8-ball in organized competition. The Filipinos play Rotation and 9-Ball primarily. The Taiwanese play 9-Ball. So let's have the disciplines be 9-ball, 14.1, 8-ball, and Rotation. Each player will player every player on the opposing team a set of each of those games. If my math is correct that is 1444 sets between the two countries. That ought to be a large enough number to get a conclusive result.

So again, I ask what is the ratio that would define slaughter? Anhiliation? Because I will also take your 10:1 against that happening.

There are easily 20 world beaters in Germany. Just because you only know four doesn't mean there aren't more.

And one of those that you do know, you didn't know about him until he won the World Championships a couple years ago. Until then he was just one of the unknown German lambs up for slaughter by the all powerful (your characterization) Taiwanese and Filipino players.

Yes, you are right, I write a lot of words to refute your position. Because the world needs to know that there are dedicated, world class players that haven't become famous yet. Players who command the table almost as well as any other human alive in any given set. It is wrong to say that these players would be annihilated, slaughtered, and aren't even close by and to the Taiwanese and Filipinos when you have no proof to back up such a claim and further no viable way to prove it. Your 10:1 boast is more of a definition of asinine than anything I have written and I would give you the same odds that you wouldn't find a single backer or promoter who would be willing to put up the money to back that bet. You cannot claim your opinion as a fact when you have no facts to back it up.

My opinion, again, is based on firsthand experience in both Germany and Taiwan. My experience is based on knowing, observing, playing with and backing top German players. It is my opinion that the Filipinos and the Taiwanese have very strong players and probably do have the edge over the Germans as a whole. But that's all they have is an edge, not dominion.

 

[Roadie]

Roadie, is this not a system that WPA, Matchroom and it's sponsors have put in place for WPC?

http://www.worldpoolchampionship.com/qualification_system.asp

I would say that it's a worthy attempt in the right direction. They can only work with the tournaments and tours that exist right now. I noticed however a lot of the categories were somewhat confusing and seemed to be using different criteria for different continents.

I question for example the inclusion of the Mosconi Cup participants as a qualifying event for inclusion in the World Championships. This is a bit incestuous and a conflict of interest in my eyes. The Mosconi Cup is a pure entertainment show with invited participants. It should no more be used to fill a spot in the WC than the Challenge of Champions or The 7-Ball events.

It's pretty sad that the world cannot fill a 128 man World Championship tournament with the best of the best from each country without having 15 "sponsors" wildcards, and qualification tournaments a week before the event to get a full field. It is pretty sad that Matchroom, the promoter, has to create a tiered system based on a hodgepodge of differing systems to get the participants together.

For Roger: In the last 16 years since they have been holding the World Championships in 9-ball and keeping records, there have been 17 people crowned with the title of World Champion. Of those 17, 6 have been American, with 3 of those being the same person, Earl Strickland. 3 have been from Taiwan with two of those being the same person Fong Pang Chao, 3 have been from Germany with 3 different champions. 2 have been from the Phillipines with one of those being the widely acknowledged greatest player living, (sorry, as much as you want to have Alex Pagulayan, he's really Canadian now and listed as such on the WPA site.). 1 from Canada (Alex). And 2 from Japan.

Remember what I said about tweaking the datasets? If you just go on the ultimate prize, the victory, then it's clear that the United States, with Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland in particular has dominated 9-ball. Even if I grant you Pagulayan for the Phillipines the USA still doubles them in the medal count. See you again in 16 years to tally up where we are. Perhaps what you really mean is that this is looking like the beginning of Filipino dominance. Maybe so. But as our level headed and sensible contributer SJM is fond of pointing out, the record speaks for itself.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

LOL, I think Roadie is living in the eighties. Oooopsss, sorrry the ninties.

I think his delusional. Remove Hohmman and Ortmann, and Germany got nothing in the international scene. Oh sorry, I think they got one more, what's his name again? Thomas Engert.

Removed, Reyes and Bustamante(oh well, I think he is going to claim Busta is playing for Germany anyways, since he considers Alex to be not a Filipino) from the international scene and Philippines still got something to show.

We are talking about group performance here. GOT IT.

You won't win this arguement if Team Europe(supposedly the best of Europe, which I assume to be better than all German team or else Matchroom will be putting in an all German team) can not even win against USA in Mosconi Cup.


Dude, if you need some other proof just look at the money standing of the players on this website. Oh well, nevermind, you are going to claim that to be a sham anyway.



Bandido,

Does Efren really like Mike Sigel? Because his earlier internet profile says his favorite player is Mike Sigel.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I guess you have never heard of the German players Klaus Zobrekis, Christian Reimering, Harald Stolka, Nicolas Otterman, Kevin Becker, Michael Schmidt +++.... Do not forget the upcoming youth players as Thomas Luttich and Nico Vehner, which are both top 5 of best youth players I have ever seen.

However, I still believe the Filipinos are the best poolcountry in the world. I have just been here in Manila for 4 days now, playing pool all day and night. There is so much talent here, it's incredible... I am amazed and shocked. I can pick 5 almost random and unknowned players here, and they would do good on every 9-ball tournament in America or Europe.

Btw: Yesterday I had the pleasure of being at Side Pocket poolhall, which looks like an old farm, really dirty place with 12 pooltables. Except for 2 new pooltables, the other ones are old, all different from eachother, bad tables. I guess there were like 100 people around the tables making sidebets all the time, and when you played you had to remove people before shots... If you master those conditions, you master everything...

When I walked in everyone wanted to play me, the only white guy. They had never seen me play, but everyone, even the 10 year old kids wanted to give me handicap in long races...

I picked one, got 4 - 0 to 11 for 1000 pesos, lost both set, 11 - 9 and 11 - 7. A lot of nerves, scary to play when everyone have judged you to be a really bad player before you start...

After the two sets I played him one-pocket even, and beat him for 500 pesos. Then I wanted some air, and outside I run into Efren Reyes. I got 10 - 5 in handicap in one-pocket, and played race to 3 for 2000 pesos.

It was packed around the table when we started, and I got up 2 - 0 really fast. Then he won the first set 3 - 2. The next set I took the lead 2 - 0 again, he reached the hill, and I won the second set. Then we played a last set for 3 000 pesos, I up 1 - 0 again, then he got me 3 - 1. Now the time is 8 in the morning, and know what? Efren asks to play more!!! He is incredible... I had to pass, but we will perhaps match up again on Wednesday. He liked to play one-pocket with me, because almost no Filipinos know how to play it... And I LOVED it, have played one-pocket for only 4 weeks, and then I get the chance to play the master... Lovely...

However, back to topic. After my match I had got a lot more respect, but still ALL of them would like to gamble with me in 9-ball. And at 8 in the morning, still the 10 year old kids are standing there waiting for bets... It's almost scary to watch, these kids are super good already...

 

[gopi-1]

I guess you have never heard of the German players Klaus Zobrekis, Christian Reimering, Harald Stolka, Nicolas Otterman, Kevin Becker, Michael Schmidt +++.... Do not forget the upcoming youth players as Thomas Luttich and Nico Vehner, which are both top 5 of best youth players I have ever seen.

However, I still believe the Filipinos are the best poolcountry in the world. I have just been here in Manila for 4 days now, playing pool all day and night. There is so much talent here, it's incredible... I am amazed and shocked. I can pick 5 almost random and unknowned players here, and they would do good on every 9-ball tournament in America or Europe.

Btw: Yesterday I had the pleasure of being at Side Pocket poolhall, which looks like an old farm, really dirty place with 12 pooltables. Except for 2 new pooltables, the other ones are old, all different from eachother, bad tables. I guess there were like 100 people around the tables making sidebets all the time, and when you played you had to remove people before shots... If you master those conditions, you master everything...

When I walked in everyone wanted to play me, the only white guy. They had never seen me play, but everyone, even the 10 year old kids wanted to give me handicap in long races...

I picked one, got 4 - 0 to 11 for 1000 pesos, lost both set, 11 - 9 and 11 - 7. A lot of nerves, scary to play when everyone have judged you to be a really bad player before you start...

After the two sets I played him one-pocket even, and beat him for 500 pesos. Then I wanted some air, and outside I run into Efren Reyes. I got 10 - 5 in handicap in one-pocket, and played race to 3 for 2000 pesos.

It was packed around the table when we started, and I got up 2 - 0 really fast. Then he won the first set 3 - 2. The next set I took the lead 2 - 0 again, he reached the hill, and I won the second set. Then we played a last set for 3 000 pesos, I up 1 - 0 again, then he got me 3 - 1. Now the time is 8 in the morning, and know what? Efren asks to play more!!! He is incredible... I had to pass, but we will perhaps match up again on Wednesday. He liked to play one-pocket with me, because almost no Filipinos know how to play it... And I LOVED it, have played one-pocket for only 4 weeks, and then I get the chance to play the master... Lovely...

However, back to topic. After my match I had got a lot more respect, but still ALL of them would like to gamble with me in 9-ball. And at 8 in the morning, still the 10 year old kids are standing there waiting for bets... It's almost scary to watch, these kids are super good already...

Good to hear you're enjoying yourself back there Roy. I've been away for
almost 4 years but one thing I do know is, Side Pocket is in the red light
district. Quezon Ave. is were the place to be, specially if you want a different
kind of action!

Side Pocket is close to heaven when you ask the Filipino pool hustlers, try to
check Lucky 13 or Sunrise pool hall, lots of action but are both sitting in an
almost condemned building. Pristine tables and balls are almost unheard of
there, and crooked sticks is the norm in these pool halls. If you can master
the game of pool using these kind of equipments and conditions, then I'm sure
you'll be a better pool player after this experience.

I'm sure after they've seen you play Effie in a game of one pocket, they will
surely try a crashcourse of one pocket just to get you to play. The
Benjamins that you brought is a good enough motivator for them to learn a
new game!

Have fun out there!