Piston stroke?

ShootingArts said:
Bill,

I have to admit you have lost me there. A slip stroke involves the grip hand slipping backwards on the cue as the hand and cue are both going back. The slip can be anything from less than an inch to close to six inches in some cases. Then the shooter regrips the cue at this further back location which has the effect of making the cue seem longer between bridge and cue ball when you go forwards. Most commonly used with other strokes, I don't know if I have ever seen it used in pool with what I would call a "pure" pendulum.

Apologies for going over the basics but I have a feeling that we are using the same term for different things. Purely an AZB thing, we long ago decided to refer to letting a cue slip through the hand while slowing or pausing the hand on the forward stroke as a stroke-slip. That never should have been referred to as a slip stroke as the older different stroke referred to as a slip stroke should always have had precedence.

Just trying to get on the same page if we aren't. I am not familiar with a hesitation pendulum stroke.

Hu
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Arts this is where the 'Pause/Hesitation' occurs, "Then the shooter regrips the cue at this further back location."
 
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ShootingArts said:
Bill,

I have to admit you have lost me there. A slip stroke involves the grip hand slipping backwards on the cue as the hand and cue are both going back. The slip can be anything from less than an inch to close to six inches in some cases. Then the shooter regrips the cue at this further back location which has the effect of making the cue seem longer between bridge and cue ball when you go forwards. Most commonly used with other strokes, I don't know if I have ever seen it used in pool with what I would call a "pure" pendulum.

Apologies for going over the basics but I have a feeling that we are using the same term for different things. Purely an AZB thing, we long ago decided to refer to letting a cue slip through the hand while slowing or pausing the hand on the forward stroke as a stroke-slip. That never should have been referred to as a slip stroke as the older different stroke referred to as a slip stroke should always have had precedence.

Just trying to get on the same page if we aren't. I am not familiar with a hesitation pendulum stroke.

Hu
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Agree with ur stance on the old definition of slip stroke but more recently a full release of the cue on the forward stroke is also commonly accepted as a type of slip stroke.

Re the hesitation pendulum in the slip.... i guess it could be a pendulum after the slip. Can also be a j-stroke frome there just as easily tho.
 
WobblyStroke said:
Agree with ur stance on the old definition of slip stroke but more recently a full release of the cue on the forward stroke is also commonly accepted as a type of slip stroke.

Re the hesitation pendulum in the slip.... i guess it could be a pendulum after the slio. Can also be a j-stroke frome there just as easily tho.
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Read post #41.

A simple explanation.
 
for me a slip stroke was as hu described
on the backswing the hand was released and moved back farther than the cue stick
this i beleive is the hesitation part mr 3 cushion is referring to as he described in post #41
the letting go of the cue before impact on the forward stroke i always thought of as a "forward"slip stroke'
but never saw a defeinition before
i had not heard the term "stroke slip" before
 
The slip stroke gives me the best feel of the forearm coming through from the elbow down only. Seems easy to get through the cue ball. Everything feels still except that forearm.

The first pool hall I went to was owned by a guy who played very well with a big slip stroke. And yeah, it was a true slip stroke not stroke slip etc.. I’ve always admired it. Fooled around with it but I can’t do it consistently. The guy who had the big slip stroke said it just came naturally to him.
 
I'm going to stick to what we worked out years ago. Calling two very different strokes by the same name can only lead to confusion. Some people throw the cue releasing it completely after starting the forward motion and call that a slip stroke.

There is no hesitation or pause in a slip stroke. The hand is going back at the normal rate of speed for the shot. The grip relaxes slightly and the cue is no longer locked up with the hand so gravity and inertia do their things and the cue slows slightly. Definitely not a pause of hand or stick. I checked the definition of hesitation in a handful of dictionaries to be sure there wasn't a usage I was unaware of. What takes place during the traditional slip stroke can't be described accurately as hesitation either.

One of these things takes place during the back stroke, one during the forward stroke. Calling them the same thing leads to confusion. Another possibility would be to add a qualifier to each slip. Maybe calling them a rearward slip stroke and a forward slip stroke. To be honest, "slip stroke" and "stroke slip" seems less cumbersome. The logic to these terms was that the traditional slip stroke occurred earlier in the shooting process than the stroke slip which occurs as the stick is moving forward the final time.

As already mentioned, we arrived at this to avoid having to go into great detail every time we mentioned either stroke. Our terms are no more right than calling three or four things a slip stroke that all involve a slip during a stroke. I am more arguing in favor of tradition than anything else.


JPB2 said:
The first pool hall I went to was owned by a guy who played very well with a big slip stroke. And yeah, it was a true slip stroke not stroke slip etc.. I’ve always admired it. Fooled around with it but I can’t do it consistently. The guy who had the big slip stroke said it just came naturally to him.
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Please tell me this player's name in public or private. Also, is there any video of his play that you know of? I try to collect such things purely because I admire the slip stroke. I once had video of a player that created an optical illusion that he either had a very flexible forearm or an extra joint or two in his arm. It was only a few second video but I watched it almost endlessly. Lost the video and the man's name in a computer crash long ago.

Any information would be very much appreciated!

Hu
 
Patrick Johnson said:
With a "piston" stroke the elbow moves up and down (like a piston) to keep the grip hand/stick/tip in a straight horizontal line. With a pendulum stroke the elbow is still and the grip hand/stick/tip rises and falls with the stroke (returning to address position at tip/ball contact).

pj
chgo
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Yeah I know what's being discussed. Just saying the stick is the piston. The only perfectly linear stroke I can think of is that pool shooting machine recently posted. Human wise, I always refer to Sigel who has that 6" zone around the ball picture perfect - and that's with a pendulum stroke.

One thing about the snooker guys and their pendulums; it's the stick taper that levels out the stick.
 
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