charlieb said:I read about the "Pivot Point" but I haven't found any thread on how exactly you find the pivot point.
That's a good description by Mike.cuetable said:Please also check this thread started by Mike Page in 2004 RSB
http://pl.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=466
Patrick Johnson said:That's a good description by Mike.
However, be aware that the Pivot Point adjusts only for squirt (cue ball deflection) and not for "swerve", which is the second effect of hitting the cue ball offcenter. Like squirt, swerve is created whenever you hit the cue ball offcenter, and it reduces the amount of "effective squirt" produced (because the cue ball "swerves" back toward the shot line).
So unless you're hitting every sidespin shot hard enough to eliminate swerve, the Pivot Point is only an approximation for how much aim adjustment to make for any given shot - the actual amount varies with shot speed, distance, butt elevation, cloth/ball cleanliness and even humidity. These things can be accurately adjusted for, but only by feel - there's no fixed measurement or system of aim adjustment that accounts for all of them.
pj
chgo
Nor does it adjust for throw, which tends to muck up the aim-and-pivot method for determining the pivot point.Patrick Johnson said:That's a good description by Mike.
However, be aware that the Pivot Point adjusts only for squirt (cue ball deflection) and not for "swerve", which is the second effect of hitting the cue ball offcenter.....
charlieb said:Thanks for all of your answers and the links provided! I will look at all the links tonight and hope that I don't get hopelessly confused. In the past I shot with a Predator but a friend made me a new cue with a very stiff shaft. I love the feel of the shaft but the stiffness causes extreme squirt, [...]
Patrick Johnson said:Like squirt, swerve is created whenever you hit the cue ball offcenter, and it reduces the amount of "effective squirt" produced (because the cue ball "swerves" back toward the shot line).
pj
chgo
Scott Lee said:Pat...Swerve only happens when the cuestick is elevated. It does not occur with a level cuestick. The CB will never return to the shot line unless there is a "masse'" effect, due to hitting down on the CB.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
How about on very sloooow shots?Scott Lee said:Pat...Swerve only happens when the cuestick is elevated. It does not occur with a level cuestick. The CB will never return to the shot line unless there is a "masse'" effect, due to hitting down on the CB.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Oh, and in answer to your actual question:charlieb said:I read about the "Pivot Point" but I haven't found any thread on how exactly you find the pivot point.
mbvl said:However, the cue is virtually always elevated because of the rails. You will almost never shoot with a level cuestick. Therefore, swerve occurs on virtually every shot. (So much for "poolknowledge".)
Mark
Patrick Johnson said:That's a good description by Mike.
However, be aware that the Pivot Point adjusts only for squirt (cue ball deflection) and not for "swerve", which is the second effect of hitting the cue ball offcenter. Like squirt, swerve is created whenever you hit the cue ball offcenter, and it reduces the amount of "effective squirt" produced (because the cue ball "swerves" back toward the shot line).
So unless you're hitting every sidespin shot hard enough to eliminate swerve, the Pivot Point is only an approximation for how much aim adjustment to make for any given shot - the actual amount varies with shot speed, distance, butt elevation, cloth/ball cleanliness and even humidity. These things can be accurately adjusted for, but only by feel - there's no fixed measurement or system of aim adjustment that accounts for all of them.
pj
chgo
Jal said:So it's impossible to know who's actually getting the correct values. But I would think that Predator has looked at this very closely and would be elated to cite the very low squirt figures (long pivot points), if they could.
Jim
I think this is not true for low-squirt sticks. In any case, even 3 degrees of elevation is more than enough to produce a half-ball of swerve on a long shot, and so must be controlled if long shots with english are to be made.Scott Lee said:We call it 'as level as reasonable to the shot'.Actually, it has more to do with the amount of elevation. The 2-3 degrees of elevation on the cue, when shooting most 'level cue' shots does not produce a swerve effect (enough to come back to the shot line). ...
Swerve usually doesn't counteract all squirt; but it does counteract a significant part of squirt on just about every shot, and increasingly so as the cloth gets older and dirtier. I think most players underestimate the significance of swerve and therefore underestimate the amount of squirt their sticks actually produce.Scott Lee said:We call it 'as level as reasonable to the shot'.Actually, it has more to do with the amount of elevation. The 2-3 degrees of elevation on the cue, when shooting most 'level cue' shots does not produce a swerve effect (enough to come back to the shot line). When you elevate to 6-10 degrees (or more) there will likely be a significant masse' effect and the CB may come back to, or cross over the shot line (but it certainly doesn't happen all the time).
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Bob Jewett said:I think this is not true for low-squirt sticks. In any case, even 3 degrees of elevation is more than enough to produce a half-ball of swerve on a long shot, and so must be controlled if long shots with english are to be made.
No, I'm saying that if the stick has very low squirt, any elevation will make the path of the cue ball cross the original line of the shot.PKM said:Are you saying that low-squirt sticks produce more swerve? I thought it would just be more noticeable if you're reducing the squirt.