Pivots Different for Same Side Cuts

jfred0826

jfred0826

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In Stan's video, Landon is shooting cuts to the right at elapsed time 22:35 and 22:54. In the first cut, from position 23/15, he calls for a manual RIGHT pivot. In the second cut to the right, from position 31/23, he calls for a manual LEFT pivot.

I'm confused. Both are cuts to the right. Only different aim points...B vs C. When I shoot both shots, I use a manual right pivot to make the balls consistently.

Why does Landon call for different pivots?

Thanks.
Joe
 
Pivots

Champ,

I have only watched the manual pivot half of the DVD. As I am already using pivot systems, I wanted to be very comfortable with Stan's manual pivot before moving to Pro One.

Somehow, I had it fixed in my mind that cuts to the right only use a right pivot, and cuts to the left only use a left pivot. Straight-ins could go either way.

I thought I got that from Stan's first half, but maybe not....

Thanks for any help.
jfe

PS---I can't grasp the cue stick over the CB and OB concept to see the alignment choice. Can you elaborate a little more on that?
 
Ok, Champ, I will try.
Cte/pro1 manual pivoting:
Eyes move straight in to a fixed cue ball and tip can be placed left or right of the cb center resulting in a left to right or right to left pivot. Very mechanical like.

PRO ONE PIVOTS:
Pro1 Pivots are defined as left or right eye movements which eliminate the need for a mechanical type pivot.
Now, as a right handed player, the cue should come in from a left to right direction to center cue ball. THAT LEFT TO RIGHT CUE MOVEMENT TO CENTER CUE BALL IS NOT A PIVOT. It is merely a cue movement to center cue ball.
PRO ONE is a very strong visual system. The eyes locate the shot line and the shooter,to the best of his ability, will move the cue to that line that the eyes lead the shooter to.

***THERE IS NO REAL CUE EQUATIONAL TYPE PIVOT IN PRO ONE. THERE IS ONLY A LEFT TO RIGHT CUE MOVEMENT TO CENTER CUE BALL WHICH CAN RESEMBLE A PIVOT TYPE TURN OF ONE's CUE.
**WHAT MATTERS MOST IS THAT THERE IS AN EFFICIENT MOVE TO CENTER CUE BALL IN PRO ONE.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
Ok, Champ, I will try.
Cte/pro1 manual pivoting:
Eyes move straight in to a fixed cue ball and tip can be placed left or right of the cb center resulting in a left to right or right to left pivot. Very mechanical like.

PRO ONE PIVOTS:
Pro1 Pivots are defined as left or right eye movements which eliminate the need for a mechanical type pivot.
Now, as a right handed player, the cue should come in from a left to right direction to center cue ball. THAT LEFT TO RIGHT CUE MOVEMENT TO CENTER CUE BALL IS NOT A PIVOT. It is merely a cue movement to center cue ball.
PRO ONE is a very strong visual system. The eyes locate the shot line and the shooter,to the best of his ability, will move the cue to that line that the eyes lead the shooter to.

***THERE IS NO REAL CUE EQUATIONAL TYPE PIVOT IN PRO ONE. THERE IS ONLY A LEFT TO RIGHT CUE MOVEMENT TO CENTER CUE BALL WHICH CAN RESEMBLE A PIVOT TYPE TURN OF ONE's CUE.
**WHAT MATTERS MOST IS THAT THERE IS AN EFFICIENT MOVE TO CENTER CUE BALL IN PRO ONE.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

When I am shooting in "dead punch" I make all of the mental decisions before I get down on the shot and rely on my mind motor skills to get there.:smile:
 
jfred0826 said:
Okay, thanks. I'll practice all the shots on the grid.

jfe
Click to expand...

The title of this thread is:
"Pivots Different for Same Side Cuts."

If you can see the contact/impact point on the OB that sends it to the pocket/target, you might try to aim the tip of the cue from the center of the CB at that point on the OB; then shift/move the whole cue and bridge sideways until/with the tip now aimed at the center of the OB; from the new bridge position, pivot back to the center of the CB and shoot.

The shift will be a smaller distance when the OB is down table.

The pivots will be the same for the same side cuts.

It might work for you.:thumbup:
 
Pivots different

Thanks, LAMas.

What you describe is the first pivot system I ever learned. Success with that is what caused me to want to learn more. From there, I went to Hal's Half Ball Pivot. I had decided that after I felt good with Half Ball, I would go to Pro one.

It was only about 6 months ago that I learned the system you suggested. When I went to Half Ball, I was playing some of the best pool of my life. Unfortunately, something crashed, and I began to miss lots of shots. I'm right-handed and left eye dominant. I think that at my age, 62, sometimes my dominant eye develops temporary focus problems, and that is when I get into a slump with my playing.:frown:

Stan's manual pivot is getting me back on track, but the idea that pivoting from different sides for a particular cut is baffling to me.

In the system you suggest, pivoting is only one direction for right cuts, and only the opposite direction for left cuts. That seems natural and I am having difficult with the notion that with Stan's manual pivots, they can be either left or right for a particular cut.

Thanks for your help.
jfe
 
you are having trouble with the inside pivot shots because the other systems you used in the past needed a lot of feel to make those particular (inside pivoted) shots, i believe. with cte/pro1 the system will put you on those shots with the use of a inside pivot, now. stay the course and you will get it.
 
jfred0826 said:
Thanks, LAMas.

What you describe is the first pivot system I ever learned. Success with that is what caused me to want to learn more. From there, I went to Hal's Half Ball Pivot. I had decided that after I felt good with Half Ball, I would go to Pro one.

It was only about 6 months ago that I learned the system you suggested. When I went to Half Ball, I was playing some of the best pool of my life. Unfortunately, something crashed, and I began to miss lots of shots. I'm right-handed and left eye dominant. I think that at my age, 62, sometimes my dominant eye develops temporary focus problems, and that is when I get into a slump with my playing.:frown:

Stan's manual pivot is getting me back on track, but the idea that pivoting from different sides for a particular cut is baffling to me.

In the system you suggest, pivoting is only one direction for right cuts, and only the opposite direction for left cuts. That seems natural and I am having difficult with the notion that with Stan's manual pivots, they can be either left or right for a particular cut.

Thanks for your help.
jfe
Click to expand...


The reason I found when I analized the results of a 1/2 tip shift with 1/8, A, B and C secondary aim fractions was that left and right pivots are necessary to fill in the cut angles between those fractions.

If you think about it geometrically, without feel, aiming the relevant side of the CB at the fractions should result in four different cut angles with a pivot to the right and 3 more with pivots to the left. I found that one of the pivots to the left overlaps a corresponding pivot to the right and is not usefull....and visa versa.

I am glad that you can see the contact point on the OB with what I proffered.

There are many contact points on the face of the OB required during a game/s. I found that the lateral shift to the center of the OB from the contact point is key or you will be a couple of degrees off....what's new?

I want to believe that I miss because my dominant eye gets less dominant and affect how I aim and miss, but if I close my non dominant eye while down on the shot, I can correct my bridge position and stance if necessary.

Thanks for your interest.:thumbup:
 
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The different pivots are necessary to access all of the cut angles within the chosen range.

For instance, on a cut to the right, you will use the C alignment and left pivot for straight or nearly straight shots, then right pivots for the rest of the range up until you need a B. The transition happens around 14 degrees, which is when the cut is a 3/4 ball cut.

As you move to B, there are a few degrees of shots that might go with a B alignment and the opposite (left in this case) pivot instead of the C and normal (right) pivot. For me at least, this transition area is very small, and I almost don't even worry about it. Then every other shot in the B range will be a standard (right in this case) pivot.

Same thing happens as you progress to 1/8, a few degrees of transition then everything will be the same side pivot.

Scott


Edit: took out references to A alignment, since I was using right cut examples, thank to those who spotted it... :)
 
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scottjen26 said:
The different pivots are necessary to access all of the cut angles within the chosen range.

For instance, on a cut to the right, you will use the A or C alignments and left pivots for straight or nearly straight shots, then right pivots for the rest of the range up until you need a B. The transition happens around 14 degrees, which is when the cut is a 3/4 ball cut.

As you move to B, there are a few degrees of shots that might go with a B alignment and the opposite (left in this case) pivot instead of the A and normal (right) pivot. For me at least, this transition area is very small, and I almost don't even worry about it. Then every other shot in the B range will be a standard (right in this case) pivot.

Same thing happens as you progress to 1/8, a few degrees of transition then everything will be the same side pivot.

Scott
Click to expand...

good usefull post on how to adapt to all of the cut angles with those slight adjustments.:smile:
 
LAMas, NOT adjustments of the kind you are trying to indicate. Scott did not even use the word, adjustment.
Scott will tell that he precisely handles all his cuts with a set procedure, all equalling a 1/2 tip pivot.
Scott has said that many times.
Stan
 
stan shuffett said:
LAMas, NOT adjustments of the kind you are trying to indicate. Scott did not even use the word, adjustment.
Scott will tell that he precisely handles all his cuts with a set procedure, all equalling a 1/2 tip pivot.
Scott has said that many times.
Stan
Click to expand...

You, as always, are correct sir for you created CTE/Pro1:

But, if not "adjustments"...then choices?


The different pivots are necessary to access all of the cut angles within the chosen range.

For instance, on a cut to the right, you will use the A or C alignments and left pivots for straight or nearly straight shots, then right pivots for the rest of the range up until you need a B. The transition happens around 14 degrees, which is when the cut is a 3/4 ball cut.

As you move to B, there are a few degrees of shots that might go with a B alignment and the opposite (left in this case) pivot instead of the A and normal (right) pivot. For me at least, this transition area is very small, and I almost don't even worry about it. Then every other shot in the B range will be a standard (right in this case) pivot.

Same thing happens as you progress to 1/8, a few degrees of transition then everything will be the same side pivot.

Scott
 
Lamas, CHOICES is improved wording over ADJUSTMENTS. Thx.
What it boils down to, though, is that there is really only one shot...Thanks, Mr. Hal Houle!
Stan Shuffett
 
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