Playability of 1960's cues vs. today?

[pwd72s]

The Bushka thread got me thinking maybe this thread could be worthwhile.

I've never played with a Bushka. I do have a Plamer Model M from the 2nd catalog that I bought new. Still with it's original shafts, and it still rolls straight. Actually, it's an early 70's cue, so I'm including that decade as well.

However, it plays like a length of steel pipe compared to my playing cue...a 2007 Josey with 4 sharp and even points, four veneers.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Josey wins by a wide margin when it comes to playability.

I'm curious if others hold the same opinion...that the old cues are great for nostalgia and collecting, but when it comes to playing on today's tables, the newer cues are better.

fell free to agree or not...

 

[DAVE_M]

Some people like that steel pipe feel. I played with a Leon Sly that felt like that.

How a cue feels, is subject to the person playing with it. The one Szamboti, that I had the chance to play with, felt like crap. I hated it. I'd play with a Wallabushka, before that one again. However, the owner loved it, and that's all that matters.

 

[macguy]

The Bushka thread got me thinking maybe this thread could be worthwhile.

I've never played with a Bushka. I do have a Plamer Model M from the 2nd catalog that I bought new. Still with it's original shafts, and it still rolls straight. Actually, it's an early 70's cue, so I'm including that decade as well.

However, it plays like a length of steel pipe compared to my playing cue...a 2007 Josey with 4 sharp and even points, four veneers.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Josey wins by a wide margin when it comes to playability.

I'm curious if others hold the same opinion...that the old cues are great for nostalgia and collecting, but when it comes to playing on today's tables, the newer cues are better.

fell free to agree or not...

Wasn't much to choose from. Palmer, Viking and a few custom makers who sold to local markets. My first cue was a Brunswick Hoppe. It was a 57" 19 oz club. My second though was a Paradise cue. It was much like the Palmers.

Slimmer butt and had a feel like an instrument for playing pool rather then a club. Most were 57" back then not sure when 58" became the standard and who started the change. I would be guessing but would say for a while Palmer were the cues of choice by many good players.

 

[pwd72s]

Good point..back then there weren't that many to choose from. Palmer & Viking were the main names then. No local cue makers that I knew of, but I lived in a Podunk mill town in Oregon.

 

[Type79]

Playability is subjective.

I have had the good fortune to own a Palmer since shortly after I took a serious interest in the game back in the early Seventies.

I still play with that cue, but I also own modern cues from contemporary cuemakers including Paul Drexler of PFD Studios, Jerry Rauenzahn, and Jimmie Pierce.

I am a bit old school as my modern cues are similar weights to my Palmers.

I've spoken to knowledgeable players who swear that cues from the sixties don't play as well as cues made using today's materials and glues. I have also spoken with one recognized Balabushka expert who has owned many GB cues and will not shoot with anything else.

Playability is subjective.

 

[qbilder]

I think a good cue plays good, regardless of who built it or when. That said, we must consider that cloth has changed, as well as ball material & cushions. Playing conditions are different than they were 40 years ago. Would it be fair to assume that a cue from yesteryear may have been better suited for the table conditions of yesteryear, and likewise with modern cues?

 

[ideologist]

The old Hoppe Professionals are amazing for the most part. Some duds, but mostly dynamite to move the ball around if you like a thicker handle, which I do.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I suppose a good pool player can adjust to the cue and play well with any pool cue.

Personally, my preference for pool cues has changed enormously since the 60's.

My Palmer has a cue butt that weighs 16.3 ounces & piloted steel joint.....total weigh 20.5 ozs.



Today, the heaviest cue butt in my collection is 14.6 ounces.......my heaviest cue is 18.75 ozs.
and most of my other cues are 18.25 -18.3 ozs. & these cues have flat ivory joints with big pins.


Cues back in the 60's & 70's were heavier & had thicker cue butts that contributed to the weight.
Earlier I wrote that a cue shouldn't matter to a good pool player and so I guess I'm not a good player.


Pool cue weight has become very important to me and I am really dialed in on my cue specifications.
The cues I order, or purchase in the resale market, bears no resemblance to cues from my yesteryear.

Today my cues are two ounces lighter, and the joints and ferrules are always ivory. It wasn't that way
in the past........and the darn cues today cost thousands more than the best cues from the 60's & 70's.

Matt B.

 

[philly]

Had a Hoppe around 1968 and loved it. It was 22oz. if I'm not mistaken. Had a beautiful leather case with a snap lid. I sold it in 1970 for $50, case and all, when I left for school which is what I paid for it. Recently hit with another Hoppe and hated it. Times have changed. We had felt back then with nap. Now we have cloth.

 

[galipeau]

The evolution of the pool cue in the U.S. is very interesting. I think the old school builders had something special they were working with and many of todays builders try to replicate that feel. Someone brought up Leon Sly, and I have to say his cues are very old school in design and feel, but have the benefit of modern techniques and materials. You won't have to worry about shrinking plastics, etc. There is a very new and distinct style and feel that more modern cues have. Sugartree is a prime example of completely breaking from the traditional old school style and hit. I've tried some of Eric's cues and the feeling was exactly opposite to the Sly I currently own. The Sly has a soft, but stiff hit with subdued feedback to the hand. The sugartree on the otherhand had a specific tone and very clear feedback to the hand, and is also quite stiff.

Comparing playability of old school to new school is bound to get a multitude of answers, but IMO, it's really comes down to preference. There are old school cues that play like GOD, and modern cues that are absolutely Amazing as well. But, there are also cues from both eras that are below average and leave a lot to be desired...

 

[jhanso18]

Hard to say for sure, but would be interesting to compare an old cue to a new cue from the same maker. I've played with a Keith from the early 80's that plays the same as my Keith from just a couple years ago, heck plays very similar to the a Keith from a couple days ago.

Can anyone out there give feed back on this type of comparison?

 

[Type79]

Blind Test

The true test would be to get a group of the cues you think you like, paint all of them black, including the joints and blind test all of them.

If your preference is wrapless, then they should all be wrapless. If a certain material wrap is your preference, then they should all be wrapped with the same material.

My belief is that all of us might be surprised at the conclusions we would draw from such a test.

 

[rhinobywilhite]

I bought a Hoppe, 21 oz. in 1964, I think. Sold it in '68 along with a cheap black plastic case for $50.00.

As mentioned by a previous poster, the butt was Big and of course, butt heavy. My next cue was a Palmer. Night and day difference, for the better.

 

[SWN99]

I never played with any cue from the 60's or 70's but I did play with a 80's schon and they still play the same today.

 

[fjk]

I play with a 70s Gus that I absolutely love. I have owned practically all the current big name cue builders cues. I believe my Gus plays as well as any of them.

 

[peppersauce]

................

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Playability of 60's Cues

In the late 60s cue makers started coming out with a new style cue that had a "Western Grip". This grip was quite a bit skinnier that the old style cue and didn't feel like a club in your hands. My friend Kenny Dodd has a 1968 Joss cue that has the old fatter grip with thicker stiffer shafts and plays completely different than today's cues.

Most of todays cues have a slimmer butt and with shaft technology perform better. Since I'm old school I still like to play with a slightly bigger butt and stiffer shaft. I started playing a month ago with a Predator Vantage shaft (12.90 MM). This shaft is stiffer but has a lot less deflection (compared to the older shafts of yesterday) and I feel its the best of both worlds.

 

[jay helfert]

In the 60's and 70's the average cue weighed around 20 oz. A 19 oz. cue was considered light. Almost all cues were 57" back then. It was Bill Stroud and Danny Janes who started the trend to 58" cues. Within a few years all the cue makers were offering 58" cues.

I still feel my old Bushka was as good as any cue I've ever owned. I wish I still had it. I do have a Bushka butt that came with two Gilbert shafts and it plays great. I've been offered $2,500 for this half Bushka but I'm not ready to sell it yet, I like it too much.

My first production cue was an Adams with reverse points on it. I wish I still had that one too. My first custom cue was a Gina made with zebra wood. It was stolen from my poolroom in Bakersfield in the 70's and turned up at Ernie's shop thirty years later, all warped. He showed it to me but I didn't want it any longer, even though it had my name in the butt. He gave it to someone who put it on eBay and got some pretty good coin for it. I got a big fat ZERO! :wink:

I think the custom cues that started getting made in the 70's were all pretty good sticks. I'm talking about Heubler, Viking, Meucci and McDermott.

 

[pdcue]

The Bushka thread got me thinking maybe this thread could be worthwhile.

I've never played with a Bushka. I do have a Plamer Model M from the 2nd catalog that I bought new. Still with it's original shafts, and it still rolls straight. Actually, it's an early 70's cue, so I'm including that decade as well.

However, it plays like a length of steel pipe compared to my playing cue...a 2007 Josey with 4 sharp and even points, four veneers.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Josey wins by a wide margin when it comes to playability.

I'm curious if others hold the same opinion...that the old cues are great for nostalgia and collecting, but when it comes to playing on today's tables, the newer cues are better.

fell free to agree or not...

I'm just sure it is due entirely to the even points - and their sharpness.

A search on 'hit', 'playability' etc might prove enlightening.

Dale(who is much more playable than HE was in the 60s)

 

[skip]

Back in the 60's my first good cue was a Champion. Had a great hit an still does I play with it at home a few times a year.